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  3. Team Flare vs. No Chem. WS (100% success rate within 7 turns)

User Info: Acuros

Acuros
6 months ago#1
Although I'm aware, that the previous topic is still open, I wanted to give this strategy/video a separate one - because at the moment I'm strongly convinced that this should be the lowest turn count possible for a 100% success rate.
A special mention this time to angryaaron. Because I remembered his triple runemaster strategy, I came up with the following one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ7U4K-OkDU

-----

Well, getting enough damage is always one thing, but regaining the lost burst was a pain in the a**. It was clear, that a Dancer must be used and that this character must be Rear Guard'd, but then it became complicated. D/R cannot use Yagrush, the fourth character must gain at least 12 burst at turn 4, did not want to use Yagrush one the main damage dealers... although it was a lot more complicated than necessary, because lazy me did not want to farm Yggdrasil weapons or 6-slot weapons, so this is merely a bonus this time.
Originally I wanted to use a L/R (with Hauteclaire) instead of a 4th R/B, but the total damage was almost the same in both cases. And this way even the D/M could survive (it took me at least 4 extra filming attempts to show just that ... mgrgrgr). So another bonus, together with the fact, that every enemy is purged by fire - how it should be with evil insects ;)

And now I'm out of ideas for failsafe strategies. Of course, the possibilities were limited from the beginning: Nightseekers are damn mediocre in this scenario and a Landsknecht hasn't that great damage options either (links are RNG reliant). Snipers are unfit too, although they theoretically could win, if the minimum hit count would be 9 instead of 6 - but I just calculated the damage and did not think thoroughly about the remaining setup.
And Bushis? I am not sure, if the strategy video of YoruWestwood, where Fierce Strike is used, is failsafe, but if yes, then that's probably your best bet if don't want to use Drive Skills (which has be done by YoruW., too).

User Info: YoruWestwood

YoruWestwood
6 months ago#2
So 7 turns is the count to beat. I think it should be possible. My current thoughts would be triple Imperial. Doing the math, triple Accel Drive with max Surge Mastery + Attack Tango x2 + Charge Edge + Charge Order + Bravant should be enough damage. Currently thinking I/B x3, D/B x2.

Turn order might be something like:

I/B: Assault Drive, Blood Surge, Bravant, Sharp Edge, Charge Edge, Accel Drive
D/B 1: Refresh Waltz, Attack Tango, Fierce Strike, Shockwave, X, Superspeed!Wide Dance
D/B 2: Attack Tango, Bravant, Charge, Shockwave, X, Charge Order!Wide Dance

There's a few things I can think of that might prevent this from working, but there's enough flexibility here that I believe that something along these lines should get a 6-turn 100% kill.

User Info: Acuros

Acuros
6 months ago#3
Waaaaaaaaait ... what? Attack Tango can stack? At least not in the Europe/Australia version. Did some tests:. It does not matter if cast on same turn or not or in combination with Wide Dance, the increase is always 40%. Or am I overlooking some evil trick?

And if even casting this aside: Shockwave damage would be enough, but how to solve the issues with hit rate and turn speed (during Pupa stage)?
Maybe hit rate could be solved through Spotter (used by D/B 1), but turn speed is a problem. I did use a D/F mainly for this.

Damage would be a close call, sth. like 23324 per Imperial ... but only if you do not sacrifice weapon slots for AGI/HIT.

User Info: YoruWestwood

YoruWestwood
6 months ago#4
Attack Tango can be stacked if they are in different buff slots. I'd have to test things out and try adjusting the strategy to handle other issues. There are ways to squeeze more damage out if I need to throw on a Velocity Choker or something. I'd have to see the specifics if/when I get around to testing. I'm not going to have time for that in the next few weeks, so it'd have to wait until after that.

User Info: Acuros

Acuros
6 months ago#5
YoruWestwood posted...
Attack Tango can be stacked if they are in different buff slots.
O_o
Tested it for myself and it works in the EU/AU version as well. That's nut ... and seems more like an exploit (or even a bug) than anything else. Though with this my statement about the lowest turn count is a litte obsolete. Not for me, because I do not really want to use this unintended behaviour ... but in the end, it's a matter of taste.
At least now I know why you're using multiple attack tangos in some of your videos. It would probably have the same effect if used with Regen Waltz, wouldn't it?

Hm: Multiple Attack Tangos are separate modifiers. So along with Blood Surge, Charge Order and Charge Edge, the difference between 1 AT and 2 AT is "only" 20%, sadly.
Which means, that Accel Drive would deal, if I am right (with Iron Gloves on): 1,57×87×9×2,6×1,5×1,3×1,25×1,2×1,05×1,01×1,36×1,21×1,19×1,11 = 21551

Not sure, though, if I have missed a modifier: Charge Edge, Blood Surge, Charge Order, Attack Tango, Attack Tango, Bravant, Drive Mastery, Surge Mastery, Power Boost, Elemental Boost, Power Boost [Bushi]
My first estimation included Defiance, which is of course wrong ... unless there is another exploit I don't know about ;)
With a Gale Amulet you're just short of 0.5 AGI to have a 100% hit rate. Although losing 8 ATK forges is a lot. I'm eager to see, where additional damage will come from.

Edit: Just noticed, that the damage in my video is higher than expected ... because forgot to factor sqrt(99/90) into the formula. Which increase the damage by almost 5%. Lucky me, that it was enough without that, otherwise I could have given up without knowing of a possible success ._.
(edited 6 months ago)

User Info: Enfinete

Enfinete
6 months ago#6
Acuros posted...
It would probably have the same effect if used with Regen Waltz, wouldn't it?
Don't believe it does. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsDFydloGbI (compare say, turn 10 and 11. both attack tango/regen waltz are in diff. slots, but the healing amount does not double up between the two turns).
Attack Tango 8 is really one of five 40% mods (Star Drop 8, Attack Tango 8, Vanguard 6, Charge Order, Triumph Order) so personally I see it as more of a Star Drop replacement. Also makes stacking base 40% mods a little easier, or 30% at sub.

900% Base
Charge Edge, Blood Surge 3, Attack Tango, Attack Tango, Charge Order, Bravant, Drive Mastery = 8.06x
Surge Mastery, Element Boost 8, Power Boost 8, Power Boost 5: (if TP can be adjusted to max bonus): 2.17x
ATK forges: 8 weapon, 2 Armor, 1 gloves, 8 accessory = 19 ATK Forges, or 1.57x

Acuros posted...
With a Gale Amulet you're just short of 0.5 AGI to have a 100% hit rate. Although losing 8 ATK forges is a lot. I'm eager to see, where additional damage will come from.
Couldn't you just take forges out of weapon instead of trading entire 8 out from Lion Medal? would be the minimal loss if all you need is 1 forge - 1.54 vs 1.57x.

I might give this a try since I'm a little annoyed by Double Strike thing I've been trying (though I haven't done TP adjustment so probably that will make up for the damage I'm missing lol)
"The Story will become Legend...." - From Riviera: The Promised Land

User Info: Acuros

Acuros
6 months ago#7
Just a warning though: The setup described in the topic until now will definitely not be failsafe. Reason: Because of burst. On turn 4, 100 burst points need to be regained. But the Imperials will only gain 18 at worst. This means, the 2 Dancers cannot regain the rest (2x39 at most). And Rear Guard won't work either this time.

By the way: You will probably have to use a least 2 forge slot one your weapon. One for AGI (turnspeed against Pupa) and one for HIT (not sure if this is enough already ...).

User Info: Enfinete

Enfinete
6 months ago#8
Acuros posted...
By the way: You will probably have to use a least 2 forge slot one your weapon. One for AGI (turnspeed against Pupa) and one for HIT (not sure if this is enough already ...).
I/B, 99 retire + 10 books on all stats, no food: 92 TEC, 71 AGI, 70 LUC.

Hm. Do you actually need HIT forge? It doesn't look like it, even before food buff. What's the base accuracy for drive blades? (I just assumed 95 because I don't have a ready list).
Speed on the other hand... is going to need some work yeah.

I/B: Assault Drive, Blood Surge, Bravant, Sharp Edge, Charge Edge, Accel Drive
D/B 1: Refresh Waltz, Attack Tango, Fierce Strike, Shockwave, X, Superspeed!Wide Dance
D/B 2: Attack Tango, Bravant, Charge, Shockwave, X, Charge Order!Wide Dance

Gave this a shot with units I have on hand for now. Seems like...
1) Peptic Juices is fine and can survive. The attack after that (on turn 2), not so much - though Endure is there. Would still need to pay attention to recoil and such (more for Blood Surge 2 and 3).
2) 3x Assault + 1 Fierce Strike may or may not be enough. Assault Drive surprisingly not doing too much damage with full ATK forges. Like 1700 ish, 2380 ish if Attack Tango is in the same line, but then 1 imp does reduced damage. Math-wise, that is still better to do (1.4*2 + 0.5). This is with Ygg weapon.
3) Turn 3, Imp needs to outspeed Dancers. I could try to raise a new dancer with no AGI book but that'll be a while (or I'll hack one in, I dunno). Or if damage is enough, SPD forges onto Imperial. Haven't done math to compare and see what I would need. Maybe somehow fit Rear Guard in, but then we get exposed to turn 3's attacks so probably not a great idea.
4) BRS regen is something that will have to be worked out. Have to balance it with weapon ATK and stuff. Sharp Edge can chime in so I think damage should be enough?
"The Story will become Legend...." - From Riviera: The Promised Land

User Info: Acuros

Acuros
6 months ago#9
Hi Enfinite,

Enfinete posted...
I/B, 99 retire + 10 books on all stats, no food: 92 TEC, 71 AGI, 70 LUC.

Hm. Do you actually need HIT forge? It doesn't look like it, even before food buff. What's the base accuracy for drive blades? (I just assumed 95 because I don't have a ready list).
Speed on the other hand... is going to need some work yeah.
I recommend this Guide section:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/3ds/997793-etrian-odyssey-iv-legends-of-the-titan/faqs/72816?page=0#Accuracy
Although the BaseCorrection part probably has to be used without the "-+ SkillAccuracy" part. (It is already added to BaseAccuracy)

I did the math some time ago - gave me already several head. With 92 TEC, 71 AGI, 70 LUC, you're base hit rate (100%, assuming weapon acc. of 95%) will be reduced by ~8,58%. With Dragon Carp ~5,07%. With Fairy Boots (+5 AGI) + 1 AGI in your drive blade ~1,5% remain. So one additionally HIT forge could be enough. In this case, the small damage from Sharp/Charge Edge would not count in case of 100% success rate ...



Gave this a shot with units I have on hand for now. Seems like...
1) Peptic Juices is fine and can survive. The attack after that (on turn 2), not so much - though Endure is there. Would still need to pay attention to recoil and such (more for Blood Surge 2 and 3).

And there is no Regen Waltz on any Dancer. So Ground Shake on turn 2 could/would be a sweet party kill, because everyone is so busy with non-healing stuff ;-)

2) 3x Assault + 1 Fierce Strike may or may not be enough. Assault Drive surprisingly not doing too much damage with full ATK forges. Like 1700 ish, 2380 ish if Attack Tango is in the same line, but then 1 imp does reduced damage. Math-wise, that is still better to do (1.4*2 + 0.5). This is with Ygg weapon.

Yes, Assault Drive isn't thaaaat strong. And slow, so pupa could easily outspeed you even with Fairy Boots, Dragon Carp and one additonal AGI forge on the weapon ...

3) Turn 3, Imp needs to outspeed Dancers. I could try to raise a new dancer with no AGI book but that'll be a while (or I'll hack one in, I dunno). Or if damage is enough, SPD forges onto Imperial. Haven't done math to compare and see what I would need. Maybe somehow fit Rear Guard in, but then we get exposed to turn 3's attacks so probably not a great idea.

SPD can't be forged. Weapons aren't an option, obviously ... and there is only one piece of armor with SPD forges ... the Landsknecht's best armor. Rear Guard will not work, of course ;)
4) BRS regen is something that will have to be worked out. Have to balance it with weapon ATK and stuff. Sharp Edge can chime in so I think damage should be enough?
Sharp Edge damage will not help enough on turn 3, because there are only 3 instances of damage. Turn speed can be solved, as not more than 81 are required.
BRS is a big problem. There is no armor with BRS slots. Accessoiry? Only one. A QR code item with 2xBRS. And still no 2nd weapon ;)

Yoru's example setup gives both Dancers, if equipped with a Yagrush, a Burst gain of 15+16 and 15+8. 54 in total. This means you're short 46 points, which is too much for 3 characters, no matter what.
The questions though is: Is regaining even required? You would lose out one Charge Order, which is probably a big problem, but still ... at least you can fire off Superspeed and your Drives.

Oh, and: A D/R could still deal enough damage to the addons and use Fire/Ice/Volt Rune. Elemental Drive with Resistance down is still a little better than double Attack Tango, I believe.

User Info: YoruWestwood

YoruWestwood
6 months ago#10
Issues with the first turn can be avoided by getting a preemptive on Warped Savior, if it comes down to that. D/R is another thing I'd considered, as is using Rear Guard on the Imperials to get Charge Edge + Drive damage on the main body. There's a few other options, but I won't be able to see if any of them can reach a 100% success rate until I have a chance to test.
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  3. Team Flare vs. No Chem. WS (100% success rate within 7 turns)
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