Tragic thing about 3DS concerning dual analog

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User Info: AquaF1end

AquaF1end
5 years ago#41

From: NinjaKitsune | #038
In case you haven't noticed, it is extremely rare that system revisions include features that f*** over compatibility with the previous base system. Oh, and again. Controller changed. Not console. $20 to upgrade. Not nearly $200. Big. F***. Difference.


By saying extremely rare, you imply that developers making games require new add-ons does happen. So there, at least we can all agree on that.

Second, all of this $20 WMP vs. $200 3DS redesign doesn't really make sense, because isn't the CPP a $20 add-on? So any 3DS gamer would only be requires to buy a $20 add-on, not a $200 console revision, right?

I must be missing something here, because this has morphed from a simple addition problem to a calculus problem.
XBL Gamertag - AquaF1END

User Info: NinjaKitsune

NinjaKitsune
5 years ago#42
...Alright. Looking back here I kinda flew off the handle about the WMP thing. I see it as a constant comparison for why they're going to include a second circle pad in the revision, and it gets a little aggravating that people can't see why such a comparison is pretty much bull****. Fine. But continuing to completely misinterpret what I was talking about after explaining it multiple times

From: AquaF1end | #041
By saying extremely rare, you imply that developers making games require new add-ons does happen. So there, at least we can all agree on that.

Second, all of this $20 WMP vs. $200 3DS redesign doesn't really make sense, because isn't the CPP a $20 add-on? So any 3DS gamer would only be requires to buy a $20 add-on, not a $200 console revision, right?

I must be missing something here, because this has morphed from a simple addition problem to a calculus problem.


like this, and repeatedly insulting me over your misinterpretation, and then completely ignoring facts just so you can continue pretending to be "right"...Is not going to make me friendly. Speaking of which, this is another good reason the revision won't be based on the second analog. Why would anyone buy a $200 revision when they can get the most visible feature for a mere $20.
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User Info: lambchips

lambchips
5 years ago#43
monster hunter 3g, revelations can be played with and without a second circle pad... goes to show how much the TC knows (and also the upcoming KI game, though its only for lefties)

as long as the developers program the use of the CPP, then it will be used
also i dont really care about a second analog anyway... all my fav games has never needed it (the only game i could see that benefit from a second analog stick is ape escape)
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User Info: AquaF1end

AquaF1end
5 years ago#44

From: NinjaKitsune | #042
...Alright. Looking back here I kinda flew off the handle about the WMP thing. I see it as a constant comparison for why they're going to include a second circle pad in the revision, and it gets a little aggravating that people can't see why such a comparison is pretty much bull****. Fine. But continuing to completely misinterpret what I was talking about after explaining it multiple times

[quoted text]

like this, and repeatedly insulting me over your misinterpretation, and then completely ignoring facts just so you can continue pretending to be "right"...Is not going to make me friendly. Speaking of which, this is another good reason the revision won't be based on the second analog. Why would anyone buy a $200 revision when they can get the most visible feature for a mere $20.


The same reason that PSOnes included the dual shock later on in life, the same reason Xbox 360s include larger HDDs over time, and the same reason that Wiis now come with WMP controllers stock now. Sure, it would be cheaper to just upgrade to the one piece of hardware, but as these accessories become more useful and popular, it makes sense to make them stock. Plus, it could be cheaper for Nintendo to include a second analog stick on a 3DS revision than to have to make both the 3DS redesign and the CPP separately, not to mention the 3DS redesign would more than likely be a different size and wouldn't fit the CPP, so they would have to spend even more money to make a redesign CPP, which would just be way too confusing and probably be even more expensive.
XBL Gamertag - AquaF1END

User Info: strongo9

strongo9
5 years ago#45
If the circle pad pro becomes popular enough and Nintendo pushes a redesign by the end of the year, I can see a lot of games requiring a second circle pad and/or two extra shoulder buttons.
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User Info: NinjaKitsune

NinjaKitsune
5 years ago#46

From: AquaF1end | #044
The same reason that PSOnes included the dual shock later on in life, the same reason Xbox 360s include larger HDDs over time, and the same reason that Wiis now come with WMP controllers stock now. Sure, it would be cheaper to just upgrade to the one piece of hardware, but as these accessories become more useful and popular, it makes sense to make them stock. Plus, it could be cheaper for Nintendo to include a second analog stick on a 3DS revision than to have to make both the 3DS redesign and the CPP separately, not to mention the 3DS redesign would more than likely be a different size and wouldn't fit the CPP, so they would have to spend even more money to make a redesign CPP, which would just be way too confusing and probably be even more expensive.


In every one of those cases, the streamlined upgrade is available to the previous consumers as well. They can't exactly retrofit an old 3DS with second analog like that so we'd be stuck with the CPP. Also, I would doubt that anyone went and bought a new console for those.

Now, the comment about it maybe being cheaper to include it does make some sense as a possibility, but there are a lot of issues. First and most importantly, incorperating it is going to add to the R&D cost for the revision, to get it in the right place, fit all of the electronics in without adding too much bulk, etc. I don't particularly think there's that strong of a price difference between 3DS/CPP and revision with second analog that it would overcome this. Second, like I said earlier, a 3DS revision with a second analog is going to have that as its most visible feature. The average customer might look at it, look at the $20 add-on, and get the add-on instead. Third, the CPP also adds a second set of shoulder buttons. Either they ignore that and suddenly the CPP is superior to the revision in terms of functionality, they add it which compounds the R&D cost and will likely still add unwanted bulk, or they make a shoulder buttons add-on for the revision which would be just plain silly.
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User Info: laxnd23

laxnd23
5 years ago#47
NinjaKitsune posted...
From: AquaF1end | #044
The same reason that PSOnes included the dual shock later on in life, the same reason Xbox 360s include larger HDDs over time, and the same reason that Wiis now come with WMP controllers stock now. Sure, it would be cheaper to just upgrade to the one piece of hardware, but as these accessories become more useful and popular, it makes sense to make them stock. Plus, it could be cheaper for Nintendo to include a second analog stick on a 3DS revision than to have to make both the 3DS redesign and the CPP separately, not to mention the 3DS redesign would more than likely be a different size and wouldn't fit the CPP, so they would have to spend even more money to make a redesign CPP, which would just be way too confusing and probably be even more expensive.
In every one of those cases, the streamlined upgrade is available to the previous consumers as well. They can't exactly retrofit an old 3DS with second analog like that so we'd be stuck with the CPP. Also, I would doubt that anyone went and bought a new console for those.

Now, the comment about it maybe being cheaper to include it does make some sense as a possibility, but there are a lot of issues. First and most importantly, incorperating it is going to add to the R&D cost for the revision, to get it in the right place, fit all of the electronics in without adding too much bulk, etc. I don't particularly think there's that strong of a price difference between 3DS/CPP and revision with second analog that it would overcome this. Second, like I said earlier, a 3DS revision with a second analog is going to have that as its most visible feature. The average customer might look at it, look at the $20 add-on, and get the add-on instead. Third, the CPP also adds a second set of shoulder buttons. Either they ignore that and suddenly the CPP is superior to the revision in terms of functionality, they add it which compounds the R&D cost and will likely still add unwanted bulk, or they make a shoulder buttons add-on for the revision which would be just plain silly.


You're right they could just buy the CPP add-on and not the revision. But there is precedent where people have bought a revision that was purely unnecessary. That is the DSiLL/XL. That iteration of the DS sold well and the only real difference was the size of the screens (not resolution, just size) and the size of the unit itself. I'm sure we can all agree that just making something bigger is not a necessary upgrade, but Nintendo felt it was, and the thing still sold pretty well. So it only stands to reason that if an upgrade to a console that is so unnecessary can sell well, an upgrade with revisions that are much more substantial, such as a second circle pad, would sell pretty well.
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User Info: AquaF1end

AquaF1end
5 years ago#48

From: NinjaKitsune | #046
1.In every one of those cases, the streamlined upgrade is available to the previous consumers as well. They can't exactly retrofit an old 3DS with second analog like that so we'd be stuck with the CPP. Also, I would doubt that anyone went and bought a new console for those.

Now, the comment about it maybe being cheaper to include it does make some sense as a possibility, but there are a lot of issues.
2.First and most importantly, incorperating it is going to add to the R&D cost for the revision, to get it in the right place, fit all of the electronics in without adding too much bulk, etc. I don't particularly think there's that strong of a price difference between 3DS/CPP and revision with second analog that it would overcome this.
3.Second, like I said earlier, a 3DS revision with a second analog is going to have that as its most visible feature. The average customer might look at it, look at the $20 add-on, and get the add-on instead.
4.Third, the CPP also adds a second set of shoulder buttons. Either they ignore that and suddenly the CPP is superior to the revision in terms of functionality, they add it which compounds the R&D cost and will likely still add unwanted bulk, or they make a shoulder buttons add-on for the revision which would be just plain silly.


1. The streamlined upgrade is available to current 3DS owners as the CPP. Just because it wouldn't look the same cosmetically (a 3DS w/CPP compared to a 3DS redesign with CPP functionality), it the same functions would be there. (Plus, can you get a 320GB HDD on the old fat 360? I don't think you can.)
2. What you "particularly think" about Nintendo's R&D costs doesn't mean anything to me and it shouldn't to anybody else. No offense, but without being able to know how qualified you are to answer a question, I can't take your analysis of R&D costs seriously. It could be true, there's just no way of knowing. I just based my idea off of the fact that console devs usually try to incorporate new functionality into console redesigns rather than base redesigns around old hardware designs.
3. So current 3DS customers can get the $20 attachment if they want or they can upgrade to the redesigned 3DS if they want, and new customers can choose which they would rather have.
4. This is the only point I can't argue much about. Not even owning a 3DS anymore and never owning a CPP, I forgot that they were also shoulder buttons added. It is true that they would have to abandon these extra buttons in order to keep down bulk, but of course, certain extras and add-ons have been abandoned in the past for different consoles. I think people could game just fine without these extra shoulder buttons.
XBL Gamertag - AquaF1END

User Info: Korlithiel

Korlithiel
5 years ago#49
NinjaKitsune, it's a fair comparison since any 3DS owner can buy an accessory to enable the same support. Before the accessory it wasn't fair, since it would require consumers to purchase new devices (and thus cost Nintendo support) but that's been taken care of.

The expense of both in this case is clearly comparable, due to the accessory being a secondary purchase and new buyers would simply get it with the redesign. And development cycles appear to be about the same as well, though I'll admit I've followed Sony more closely and their planned 10 years per console (3 years with the old console still alive, last 3 years with the next gen on shelves).

Since others are arguing the same point I am, I think you need to reconsider your argument. It doesn't hold water with the masses, and so is failing your face validity check (regardless of if your correct, you appear incorrect).

What you appear to be failing to understand is the cost is the same. Cost to gain the feature on a 3DS, $20 for an accessory. Cost to gain the feature on a Wii controller, $20 for an accessory. It's comparable rather closely. So what your intentionally missing is simple, that it's the same price.

Your argument on the visible feature convincing people not to upgrade is nearly meaningless. There were no visible for most people from the PSP 100x series to the 200x series, to the 300x series and Sony made sure each upgrade was supported by ending production of the earlier models. So long as Nintendo supports the 3DS they don't need to worry whether an accessory sells or people chose to upgrade, both increase software sales which makes them money in addition to the hardware sales.
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User Info: hello_indigo

hello_indigo
5 years ago#50
NinjaKitsune, YOU. ARE. WRONG. *covers ears* LALALALAALALA

;) jk

I think I see where you're coming from though. But still...like everyone else, I must politely disagree.
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