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  3. What makes C. Viper one of the harder characters to use?
Oxy_Moron123 11 years ago#31
anytime i have tried to jump in vega during wakeup i am hit with backflip.

The ex wall dive is invulnerable, no? I thought vega (on the way up) could not be hit out of ex version.

I definately do not have much vega experience, and have never played vega in any game so i could be completely wrong. Anyone have any vid of viper owning vega? Cause obviously i am doing something wrong in that matchup, lol.
I've heard it both ways, the right way and now your way.
EuroE 11 years ago#32
She isn't exactly "bad", but she can't be used like any other character.

Her health is garbage. Her startup frames are garbage, and her priority is a complete joke. Almost laughably bad.

However, her meter-building is amazing, super jump is amazing, damage is pretty good, and mixups are nearly endless.

Learn to block if you want to use viper. And never EVER EVER sweep if you're both on the ground. There are like 18 startup frames for that sucker.
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nantomaster 11 years ago#33
^
Gotta agree here.
PSN: Otogi-Matsuri. Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/OtogiMatsuri
Kingx3 11 years ago#34
yeah her trip is stupid long. And her FA takes to long to hit too (at least for me)


But i'm not too convinced about horrible priority. Her AA kaiser knuckle is a pretty solid move. So you can play defensive pretty easily.

And you can cr. mp --> lp or mp kaiser knuckle all day one after another. The window to punish that move is pretty small, so you can almost string it if you want to put your opponent on the defensive real fast. Its also easily canceled into super. But if you find your opponents timing is good enough to punish you, then just dont use it as a blockstring.

I like her ranged move a lot. No one will be throwing lp/lk projectiles at you, or at least they shouldn't be if they are far away. And the EX version is highly combo-able, though it will take practice and skill to do it.

She also has an amazing cross up with her flaming kick thing. Jump in with a fierce kick and immediately after it hits do the flame kick (i dont remember its name :P) and it will hit on the other side.


I think the best way to describe her is that her normal attacks are just different. Her jumping fierce kick is a short ranged knee for example. We already mentioned her stupid long trip and FA.


But i definitely don't think shes one of the harder characters to use. She has a very diverse and good set of skills (AA, ground projectile, good in the air moves, cross up, good ultra/super) and her basic combos should be very familiar if you use a quarter circle character.
nantomaster 11 years ago#35
And you can cr. mp --> lp or mp kaiser knuckle all day one after another. The window to punish that move is pretty small, so you can almost string it if you want to put your opponent on the defensive real fast. Its also easily canceled into super. But if you find your opponents timing is good enough to punish you, then just dont use it as a blockstring.

Not really no. They can just jab after the blocked MP since it leaves you at a small(though not punishable) disadvantage. That only really works against people who don't know how to fight against Viper, or in online situations.

Her AA Thunder Knuckle isn't as good as you think it is, though it has benefits. First off, it starts up slower than most DPs, plus it can be thrown out of. And it often trades with jump-ins(which is actually a good thing since you can juggle off the trade but not if you have the life disadvantage.)

But anyway, I think people should pick her up seriously and use her against more experienced people to see why she is difficult to use properly and why certain things people think are effective and easy to do with her suddenly stop working once they come across someone who knows how to deal with Viper and why her normals aren't very good.
PSN: Otogi-Matsuri. Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/OtogiMatsuri
style7777 11 years ago#36
well i can see why everyone complain about her normals, but i will talk about her game.

you see, you dont win (i dont see how you can bother to use) with viper's normals. Only at the right time, and right situation. At least its the way i see it.

When she has everything she needs to win.

Her strength is in the air and in the mix up game.

IMO viper destroys makoto if you kno the match up. Stay in the air where her grabs cant reach you. and you can just jump out of makoto block strings because they arent "true" block strings.

Instant burn kicks are her strongest weapon. At the right distant it will cross up and hit from the back.

Her specials are among the best in the game and is where she shines.

Her TKs come out extremely fast for easy chip damage.
Her seismo block strings are useful vs turtle/fireball chars

Not to mention she can feint anytime she wishes then immediately instant burn kick for the cross up or any mix up game

her neutral HK is a beast for anti airs or to get out of pressure situations

her LP TK goes under alot of moves. (fireballs, Bisons Roundhouse, Sagats roundhouse,)
not to mention her TKs are armor breakers which can knockout Abels U2 if baited out(but still
extremely hard to do) .

Her burnkicks goes over alot of moves as well. And if done at the right distance can get ppl of guard( you ryu players who love to walk up and low forward +fireball)

Im picking up Viper very fast and she does have poor normals and low health, however, her playstyle is very unpredictable, very fast, and very deadly.
psn Tricky701
nantomaster 11 years ago#37
IMO viper destroys makoto if you kno the match up. Stay in the air where her grabs cant reach you. and you can just jump out of makoto block strings because they arent "true" block strings.

Nah, we're talking about the Japanese Vega player called Makoto, not the actual character lol. BTW, all the stuff you're saying, I already know about. All of Viper's cross-ups, I know them all. I've been using Viper for a year, since SF4. But mix-ups and tricks only get you so far. When they stop working, you will need to rely on the basics. Without sounding mean, it's something you'll experience later on as you play more with Viper and fight certain chars. That's all I can say really.

PSN: Otogi-Matsuri. Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/OtogiMatsuri
style7777 11 years ago#38
^

well doesnt that go for every character? When anyone's mixup/tricks stop working, sure you have to go for something else. But of course its the same for any other character.

So no your not being mean, but without me sound mean, your not thinking outside the box.

If you block all of Ryus frame traps, fireballs, crossups, fakecrossup into low shorts, what is he gonna do?

Try and Throw you then its back to basics.
psn Tricky701
style7777 11 years ago#39
oh yeah,

matchups can only go so far.

Maybe 1 of vipers tricks works well on this char, but wont work on this char. You have to be prepared.

Then its not only the char, but its who your playing and how is he playing WHEN HE IS PLAYING YOU.

is he turtling? being patient? Likes to block and punish?

My point is every character has strengths and weaknesses. Vipers are her normals, but like every other char, she has what she needs to win.

What makes her harder is to learn her. Shes likes the biggest offensive playbook. and you are the quarterback.

practice, study, practice , study
psn Tricky701
Kingx3 11 years ago#40
"Not really no. They can just jab after the blocked MP since it leaves you at a small(though not punishable) disadvantage. That only really works against people who don't know how to fight against Viper, or in online situations. "

thats mainly why i said not to do it if the guy can punish you. You can definitely jab through it like you said, but the window is pretty small. Even if people know what to do in a rock beats scissors kind of way, it doesn't mean they can execute all the time. Even "pros" can miss the small window in between mp and a knuckle.

But i mainly meant it as a mix up, so i guess i shouldn't have said all day.

Its kind of like lp shoryuken whiffing into EX shoryuken with Ken. It works if the opponent can't punish the whiff, but doesn't if they can or if they anticipate the 2nd part.

If you set your game up so after your blocked knuckles you backdash or let up, then in the later rounds you can start to do another cr. mp --> knuckle, since they may start to walk forward or do a normal after they block the first one. (hope you understood the run on sentence)

and i stick to the AA knuckle being great. But yeah, your right. its definitely situational, but imo everything is.
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