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User Info: 1337gamerpr0

1337gamerpr0
6 years ago#31
flanqer posted...
RennanNT posted...
Post #158 in:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/960564-xenoblade-chronicles/69507200?page=15

(Side note: Links with a page number won't work right for anyone whose messages-per-page setting is different from yours. I have it set to show 50 messages per page, so links like this often give me a 'no such page' error; I have to drop the "?page=##" from the URL to see the referenced thread.)

That poster overlooked two things: First, the human body has a relatively smooth surface, but the Bionis and Mechonis have irregular surfaces with lots of bumps and ledges. Second, parts of the game take place inside the Bionis and Mechonis, as well as on the Mechonis's sword. This greatly increases the amount of space available. At any rate, TC was asking about the actual maps which you can explore, not the total surface area of the Bionis and Mechonis.

The game's next-goal compass tells you the distance to the goal in meters. I think it matches the scale of the Japanese maps on the wiki, which show the Bionis' Leg map to be 3100 meters long (2 miles), Eryth Sea is 6300 meters long (4 miles), and Valaak Mountain to be 3500 meters long (2.2 miles). It may be possible to figure out the total area of those maps, but they don't include Mechonis locations.

(http://xenoblade.wikia.com/wiki/Category:JCE_Maps)

In practical terms, it takes 3 minutes to run half the length of Bionis' Leg (from Ragrinar Canyon Path to the edge of Raguel Lake) and 15 minutes to swim the full length of Eryth Sea.


does anyone want to look at all the maps in that link and calculate the total area :P

User Info: flanqer

flanqer
6 years ago#32
1337gamerpr0 posted...
does anyone want to look at all the maps in that link and calculate the total area :P

I was just about to start working on that. I already have an idea on how to do it...

User Info: Ranowa

Ranowa
6 years ago#33
flanqer posted...
1337gamerpr0 posted...
does anyone want to look at all the maps in that link and calculate the total area :P

I was just about to start working on that. I already have an idea on how to do it...


It wouldn't be that hard for anyone who's good with their multivariable calculus. Take Eryth Sea (simplest shape): Write an equation or Taylor series that roughly estimates the curve for the top half of the map, then do the same for the bottom, then find the start/end points, and integrate. For areas that have more complicated shapes, you'd just have to repeat many times and divide it up into smaller areas that you can estimate with equations. Two problems, though: we have no idea what the units are so any answer is meaningless, and for places like Valak Mountain, the whole thing is on a slope and there is differing elevation everywhere, so you'd have to plot it in three space, and integration doesn't work quite the same to give you area there. And how would you deal with places like Makna, where you can run over the same location at differing elevations? It doesn't necessarily affect the area, but it does affect the amount of stuff you can explore, if that's what you're looking to calculate. The whole thing would be pretty time consuming...

User Info: flanqer

flanqer
6 years ago#34
Ranowa posted...
It wouldn't be that hard for anyone who's good with their multivariable calculus.

Pffft. Too much work. I have a simpler idea that involves a lot less math. Explanation after I've done it. ^_^

User Info: MonadAlvis

MonadAlvis
6 years ago#35
Ranowa posted...
flanqer posted...
1337gamerpr0 posted...
does anyone want to look at all the maps in that link and calculate the total area :P

I was just about to start working on that. I already have an idea on how to do it...


It wouldn't be that hard for anyone who's good with their multivariable calculus. Take Eryth Sea (simplest shape): Write an equation or Taylor series that roughly estimates the curve for the top half of the map, then do the same for the bottom, then find the start/end points, and integrate. For areas that have more complicated shapes, you'd just have to repeat many times and divide it up into smaller areas that you can estimate with equations. Two problems, though: we have no idea what the units are so any answer is meaningless, and for places like Valak Mountain, the whole thing is on a slope and there is differing elevation everywhere, so you'd have to plot it in three space, and integration doesn't work quite the same to give you area there. And how would you deal with places like Makna, where you can run over the same location at differing elevations? It doesn't necessarily affect the area, but it does affect the amount of stuff you can explore, if that's what you're looking to calculate. The whole thing would be pretty time consuming...


We have canon heights of characters. You can calculate their gait based on their height.
http://i.imgur.com/Wtzjg.jpg | http://i.imgur.com/Gjc1M.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/MfpFa.jpg | http://i.imgur.com/ql0Ai.jpg

User Info: flanqer

flanqer
6 years ago#36
I've calculated the area of each map. From smallest to largest:

MAP ............... SQ KM ... SQ MI ... SCALE
Mechonis Core ..... 0.00085 . 0.0003 .. 6000 px/km
Frontier Village .. 0.10 .... 0.037 ... 3000 px/km
High Entia Tomb ... 0.11 .... 0.044 ... 1500 px/km
Tephra Cave ....... 0.13 .... 0.051 ... 1440 px/km
Ether Mines ....... 0.14 .... 0.054 ... 1500 px/km
Agniratha ......... 0.14 .... 0.056 .... 545 px/km
Galahad Fortress .. 0.16 .... 0.063 ... 1000 px/km
Prison Island ..... 0.17 .... 0.067 .... 895 px/km
Colony 6 .......... 0.27 .... 0.11 ..... 800 px/km
Central Factory ... 0.31 .... 0.12 ..... 500 px/km
Bionis Interior ... 0.70 .... 0.27 ..... 800 px/km
Alcamoth .......... 0.71 .... 0.27 .... 1000 px/km
Mechonis Field .... 0.72 .... 0.28 ..... 400 px/km
Satorl Marsh ...... 0.92 .... 0.35 .... 1000 px/km
Fallen Arm ........ 1.03 .... 0.40 ..... 750 px/km
Colony 9 .......... 1.03 .... 0.40 .... 1000 px/km
Sword Valley ...... 1.15 .... 0.45 ..... 500 px/km
Bionis' Leg ....... 2.04 .... 0.79 ..... 585 px/km
Valak Mountain .... 2.18 .... 0.84 ..... 500 px/km
Makna Forest ...... 3.32 .... 1.28 ..... 500 px/km
Eryth Sea ........ 15.24 .... 5.89 ..... 250 px/km

TOTAL: 30.59 square kilometers (11.81 square miles)

... Doesn't sound very big after all, does it? Of course we can only explore a very small portion of the Bionis and Mechonis.

The margin of error is probably around 10-20%.

I only included the parts of the map that are accessible. For example, Tephra Cave only includes the tunnels and rooms, not the solid rock between them, and Frontier Village excludes the large empty space on floors 2-8.

For reference, I included the scale of the Japanese map in pixels/km.

Methodology to be explained in the next post...

User Info: flanqer

flanqer
6 years ago#37
Here's how I calculated the areas of the maps:

1) Measure the grid dimensions to determine how many pixels = 1 km.

2) Measure the image's size in pixels and convert to kilometers.

3) Multiply to get the overall area in square kilometers.

4) Paint the background black and the map white. (Photoshop tools like the magic wand and average allowed me to do this quickly.)

5) Convert to greyscale, 32 bits per channel (necessary for accuracy).

6) Use the "average" filter to turn it into a uniform grey.

7) Use the eyedropper and color picker to see the numeric values for this grey. The 32-bit RGB values tell how much of the image was white, e.g. 0.1489 means 14.89% of the image was white.

8) Multiply the overall area from step 3 by the grey value from step 7 to get the map area in square kilometers.

9) Multiply by 0.3861 to convert it to square miles.

(EDIT: Calculations were all done using a spreadsheet.)

Measurements were done using the Japanese maps from the wiki. I compared a few against the game's distance-to-goal counter, and the grid markings seem to match, so I assumed that they're all reasonably accurate. I also assumed that the counter and grid markings are in meters since (1) it's a Japanese game, and (2) it seems to be about right when comparing the characters' height with the distance travelled per 1 unit.

I couldn't find Japanese maps of Prison Island, Galahad Fortress, Mechonis Field, Central Factory, Agniratha, or Mechonis Core, so for those I used texture dumps of the game's maps from Dolphin. If possible, I used the game's distance-to-goal counter to estimate the scale, otherwise I timed how long it took to run a straight-line distance between two identifiable points, using my running speed on the Bionis' Leg for comparison. Mechonis Core is the most questionable because it's so small, but even if it's twice as big as I calculated it wouldn't affect the total by much.

I tried measuring some areas by nudging the stick to walk instead of run, and counting the number of steps, but repeating it several times gave me wildly inconsistent numbers, so that's a dead end. Walking speed may vary slightly depending how far I push the stick, and the walking animation isn't kept in sync with the ground. Estimating a character's gait by their canonical heights wouldn't work for the same reason. Timing how long it takes to run a specific distance at full speed gives much more consistent results.

User Info: SKStylez

SKStylez
6 years ago#38
^nice, did you account for every accessible floor too? Makna being that much bigger than Bionis leg seems a bit odd

User Info: ScaldedBeaver

ScaldedBeaver
6 years ago#39
How is the swimming speed compared to the running speed?

User Info: MonadAlvis

MonadAlvis
6 years ago#40
Question about Eryth: Did you include the water under the floating islands?
http://i.imgur.com/Wtzjg.jpg | http://i.imgur.com/Gjc1M.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/MfpFa.jpg | http://i.imgur.com/ql0Ai.jpg
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