Coming back to this game after playing Fallout 4 is physically painful

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User Info: jurbanik

jurbanik
3 months ago#31
ParanoidObsessive posted...

Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 are basically railroad plots dropped into the middle of an open-world setting with disconnected scenarios, where your only real choice is to either follow the main plot and give up all pretense of real control, or ignore the main plot entirely and just explore (which isn't surprising, because that's more or less the same design philosophy of the Elder Scrolls games as well).



I agree about Elder Scrolls with one minor caveat. At least in games like Skyrim you had choices on which guilds to join and therefore had more control over your character. Nowhere close to FO2 or even FO NV but it was better than FO3/4 in this regard.

But one thing you can say about FO3/4. They were at least better than ME Andromeda. Now that game had ZERO freedom and even the dialog choices were basically identical except for tone. What a waste of a game that was.
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ParanoidObsessive 3 months ago#32
jurbanik posted...
At least in games like Skyrim you had choices on which guilds to join and therefore had more control over your character. Nowhere close to FO2 or even FO NV but it was better than FO3/4 in this regard.

Yeah, but that's the illusion of choice. Much like the main plot, the only real choice you have is "Do you want to do this plotline or no?" Once you commit to one of the guilds, its entire storyline is just as shallow and linear as the main quest storyline.

As an example, the Thieves Guild storyline in Skyrim is notorious for being incredibly poorly written and making very little sense if you think about it for more than 30 seconds, yet you're never given a single iota of free will or wiggle room in how you handle each stage of the plot. Every quest is essentially a fetch quest with minor exposition attached, building up to an underwhelming and somewhat nonsensical ending.

The closest Skyrim ever really comes to offering you actual choices at all (other than the Civil War) is when you can decide to either stay a werewolf or not, and when you can choose to either kill Paarthurnax or alienate the Blades. And even those choices are kind of undermined by the fact that they have almost zero mechanical or narrative impact outside of the choice itself (other than getting to be a werewolf, obviously). The same goes for the vampire/not-vampire choice you make in Dawnguard.

The Civil War is probably the most significant choice you get to make, and even that is mostly just "pick a side with almost no prior lead-up or exposition", where the moment you choose you're just locked into that side's linear narrative chain. It CAN be a hugely meaningful choice if you spend a lot of time actually thinking about it, talking to tons of NPCs, and otherwise doing your own research and roleplaying, but very little of that is intrinsic to the plot itself. Which is why a lot of players boil the entire decision down to "I'm going to side with the people who DIDN'T try to cut my head off in the opening scene" or "I'm going to side with the people who seem slightly less racist."



jurbanik posted...
But one thing you can say about FO3/4. They were at least better than ME Andromeda.

Yes, but I've had bloody bowel movements better than ME:Andromeda, so that's not much of an accomplishment.

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User Info: jurbanik

jurbanik
3 months ago#33
First let me say I'm 1000% behind more choices.

But there are many different levels of choices. I like to refer them to tactical, operation and strategic.

Tactical are choices in how you handle a quest. In FO2 giving a bomb to the kid to take to his grandfather is tactical. Using Myron's brain is tactical. Many games today don't really offer a tactical choice of if they do it's limited to talking vs. fighting with some sneak thrown in here and there. But the choice of handling it nicely or by being "evil" has been pretty much removed.

Operation choices to me are usually based on doing vs. not doing the quest. Here games have changed. Today it is do or do not. In the past it was do quest A or do quest B or skip both and all three had a consequence. There are no consequences in doing or not doing quests today. They try to give fake consequences like having more assets for the final battle but they don't matter.

And then there are strategic choices. The Civil War or which faction in FONV are examples. These must have big consequences on the end of the game. But recently they have little to no real consequences.

You mention "illusion of choice". For me the illusion is that the results or consequences don't matter. Not that once I pick a line it is linear or not. Being linear is not a real problem. Many great RPG's had linear story lines. But the end results were huge. It also allowed replay value.

I remember replaying a game as good/evil, male/female, character type A/ character type B, etc. All resulted in different content, different endings and different choices during the game.

Remember having an intelligence of 1 or 2 for your character in FO2?

Even when it comes to NPC's we have no real choices. If I hated a NPC I could kill them, kick them out, have them killed in funny unique ways or just not use them. And some would leave of their own accord if your main character was not what they wanted to be around. Be too nice before winning her admiration and the Drow female Viconia would leave you after insulting you many times.

Today you have no choices except use or not use. I guess some of that is for the same reason kids are removed from most games. They don't want you killing off the "diversity" NPC as that would lead to bad press or something.
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User Info: hoax123

hoax123
3 months ago#34
The gunplay is better in F4, the graphics, the engine and things like that.
But as an actual game with replay value, New Vegas is vastly better, in my opinion.
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