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  3. Has anyone tried other MOBA's compared to league?

User Info: Ryuko_Chan

Ryuko_Chan
4 weeks ago#21
murrowboy1 posted...
So we all agree nobody gives 2 ****s about HON.

Ok.
Never played it but I do want to at some point. Does kinda seem hard to get into though.
- silverhyruler post

User Info: RJ1771

RJ1771
4 weeks ago#22
murrowboy1 posted...
I find it very interesting HOTS had trademark characters everyone recongizes and yet they lost to Riot who created new characters as they went on. And Riot Champs are not that interesting. Some are, but most of the lore is meh.
The issue was the gameplay style was geared (originally) specifically towards a more casual market. No item shop to worry about, not having to worry about last-hitting minions or enemy players thanks to the shared xp pool for the whole team, the most complex thing you have to worry about was the talent build system. Then there's the fact that the gameplay wasn't "traditional" in a MOBA sense. There weren't lane assignments, team comps could be pretty wonky, and the fact that there's numerous maps each with their own objectives and ways that you have to play them.

And on the note of objectives there's also the matter that the game is weighted much more heavily towards capturing the objectives rather than out-right beating the opponent. Sure, LoL has dragons and baron, but in HotS when you capture an objective you're pretty much guaranteed to inflict massive damage on the enemy's structures. There's even one map where you straight-up can't deal damage to the enemy core unless you take the objectives.

To some these differences made the game more interesting than the standard 3 Lane And A Jungle MOBA experience that DotA and LoL established (myself included, I personally enjoyed how HotS mixed things up). But it was on account of these differences that HotS never really had a massive pull on DotA or LoL fans, which is to say simply: MOBA fans. So yeah, having a big roster of characters that already have deep lore and backstories through countless previous games is all well and good, but if people don't like the actual mechanics of the game itself then they're not going to stick around.
I'm tired of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with them later.

User Info: 012yArthur0

012yArthur0
4 weeks ago#23
RJ1771 posted...
Haven't played DotA2 but from my understanding the reason LoL surpassed it despite DotA coming first is for a number of mechanical reasons. From my understanding you can deny farm by last-hitting your own minions, your characters actually have a "turn speed" (meaning then can't just 180 like in LoL, they actually have to turn around), and various other things that make it feel a lot different from LoL and apparently people just like the feel of LoL better. That and I'd imagine the fact that DotA isn't free also plays a factor in it.

One of the reasons league was such hit was because its game design was to have anti-frustation features which are extremely common in DotA, such as denying money with creeps, losing money over death and point and click CC. Also being easier to play and having not having such an abomination of a shop list in-game helped.

But it seems that philosophy was tossed out of the window after some time. Things like Darius, Samira, Zoe, Yasuo (CertainlyT champions in general) and being called good design is just the complete opposite from what they stood for League back then. Sure it had stupid crap like Master Yi doing 300% AP damage and silence CC but it was very little compared to dota now.

I actually gave dota a try again (quitted due to tilt lol) and I'm honestly surprised how this game tilted me way less than league on my playthrough these seasons. Maybe because I'm trying to see with different lens than before and being more patient at this game but eh.

Also, League visual design is better. I honestly find most of dota characters visually boring. One of my favorite character is Chaos Knight because I'm a sucker for the Dark Knight archtype that I still finds lacking in LoL. The closest thing I could have is Morderkaiser which is basically a green Darius in gameplay
Ryuko_Chan posted...
dota 2: extremely boring, would never play it again. Seems to be the “um well ackshually” neckbeard hipster moba because judging by how a lot of the players talk the main reason they play it is because it’s not league and that makes them feel special inside.
Yeah, the nerdrage at Dota vs LoL thing was really stupid.

IMO, league is a better moba while DotA is a better game.
Some things are beautiful because they cannot be obtained. ~~ Gilgamesh
(edited 4 weeks ago)

User Info: TwoStrikes94

TwoStrikes94
4 weeks ago#24
dota 1 came before league... sure.... but it was behind a 60 dollar paywall via a warcraft 3 battlechest, and it wasnt supported as a real game. you had to seekout private dota 1 channels / browse the custom game list and not get booted from a dota match just to play it. basically, you had to know it existed and go out of your way to find it to play it, on a game that was super old and cost 60 dollars new still.

riot saw an opportunity to steal the idea for themselves and make it an actual standalone game, free to play.

league came out before dota 2, dota 2 kept getting delayed.

league paid its way into tournaments which is normally the opposite of how that works, just to create the image that it was also an e-sport.

league employed every addiction tactic possible to keep people playing. Lots of friends wouldnt even TRY dota 2 because 'well ive already invested so much time unlocking all these champions and runes and i dont want to do that again in dota 2...' THERE IS NO UNLOCKING CHAMPS AND THINGS IN DOTA 2, YOU GET THEM ALL FOR FREE AS YOU SHOULD

anyways, dota 2s art style sucked ass. Leagues simplistically bad graphics and softcore hentai loading screen art was clearly the better decision.
http://i.imgur.com/U5y3b.jpg
www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JoAQOiqKRg

User Info: RJ1771

RJ1771
4 weeks ago#25
TwoStrikes94 posted...
dota 1 came before league... sure.... but it was behind a 60 dollar paywall via a warcraft 3 battlechest, and it wasnt supported as a real game. you had to seekout private dota 1 channels / browse the custom game list and not get booted from a dota match just to play it. basically, you had to know it existed and go out of your way to find it to play it, on a game that was super old and cost 60 dollars new still.

riot saw an opportunity to steal the idea for themselves and make it an actual standalone game, free to play.

league came out before dota 2, dota 2 kept getting delayed.

league paid its way into tournaments which is normally the opposite of how that works, just to create the image that it was also an e-sport.

league employed every addiction tactic possible to keep people playing. Lots of friends wouldnt even TRY dota 2 because 'well ive already invested so much time unlocking all these champions and runes and i dont want to do that again in dota 2...' THERE IS NO UNLOCKING CHAMPS AND THINGS IN DOTA 2, YOU GET THEM ALL FOR FREE AS YOU SHOULD

anyways, dota 2s art style sucked ass. Leagues simplistically bad graphics and softcore hentai loading screen art was clearly the better decision.
The funny part is that the devs of DotA actually approached Blizzard to get an official endorsement and see if they would be interested in funding a stand-alone DotA game. Blizzard told'em to piss off, so the DotA devs went to Valve and Valve said "sure, we'll get in on that action." Blizzard could have gotten in on the ground floor of the MOBA genre but instead they pissed away their chance and were left desperately trying to pick up the scraps with HotS.

Hence why when Warcraft 3: Refunded----erm, "Reforged" came out it came with that clause in the TOS saying that any and all things created in the map editor belong solely to Blizzard. The creators forfeit all rights and ownership of any custom maps/game modes/etc and Blizzard can do whatever they want with them without even having to credit the original creator. They wanted to ensure that nothing like DotA ever escaped their grasp again, so they said "f*** it, we don't have to cut anyone any deals because we just straight-up own everything you make."
I'm tired of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with them later.
(edited 4 weeks ago)

User Info: 012yArthur0

012yArthur0
4 weeks ago#26
RJ1771 posted...
The funny part is that the devs of DotA actually approached Blizzard to get an official endorsement and see if they would be interested in funding a stand-alone DotA game. Blizzard told'em to piss off, so the DotA devs went to Valve and Valve said "sure, we'll get in on that action." Blizzard could have gotten in on the ground floor of the MOBA genre but instead they pissed away their chance and were left desperately trying to pick up the scraps with HotS.

Hence why when Warcraft 3: Refunded----erm, "Reforged" came out it came with that clause in the TOS saying that any and all things created in the map editor belong solely to Blizzard. The creators forfeit all rights and ownership of any custom maps/game modes/etc and Blizzard can do whatever they want with them without even having to credit the original creator. They wanted to ensure that nothing like DotA ever escaped their grasp again, so they said "f*** it, we don't have to cut anyone any deals because we just straight-up own everything you make."

So...they're still salty of their own pisspoor choice.

Considering Blizzard WoW payment change and games decline, how they still up working?

Some things are beautiful because they cannot be obtained. ~~ Gilgamesh

User Info: murrowboy1

murrowboy1
4 weeks ago#27
TwoStrikes94 posted...
dota 1 came before league... sure.... but it was behind a 60 dollar paywall via a warcraft 3 battlechest, and it wasnt supported as a real game. you had to seekout private dota 1 channels / browse the custom game list and not get booted from a dota match just to play it. basically, you had to know it existed and go out of your way to find it to play it, on a game that was super old and cost 60 dollars new still.

riot saw an opportunity to steal the idea for themselves and make it an actual standalone game, free to play.

league came out before dota 2, dota 2 kept getting delayed.

league paid its way into tournaments which is normally the opposite of how that works, just to create the image that it was also an e-sport.

league employed every addiction tactic possible to keep people playing. Lots of friends wouldnt even TRY dota 2 because 'well ive already invested so much time unlocking all these champions and runes and i dont want to do that again in dota 2...' THERE IS NO UNLOCKING CHAMPS AND THINGS IN DOTA 2, YOU GET THEM ALL FOR FREE AS YOU SHOULD

anyways, dota 2s art style sucked ass. Leagues simplistically bad graphics and softcore hentai loading screen art was clearly the better decision.

Wasn't War 3 already selling on discount when DotA was released? Or did DotA came out a week after War 3's release?

User Info: RJ1771

RJ1771
4 weeks ago#28
murrowboy1 posted...
Wasn't War 3 already selling on discount when DotA was released? Or did DotA came out a week after War 3's release?
DotA originally started out as a custom map in WCIII. See my response to TwoStrikes' post regarding the matter. The TL/DR of it is that when DotA became an incredibly popular custom map for multiplayer the devs of it tried to get officially supported by Blizzard and pitched a deal to them to make it a stand alone game. Blizzard declined so the DotA devs went to Valve and Valve said yes. Thus DotA 2 was born.

More directly to your question: DotA as it is today came out a long time after WCIII, but I think WCIII was still selling at full price when DotA came out as a stand alone game (i.e. DotA 2)
I'm tired of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with them later.

User Info: murrowboy1

murrowboy1
4 weeks ago#29
RJ1771 posted...


More directly to your question: DotA as it is today came out a long time after WCIII, but I think WCIII was still selling at full price when DotA came out as a stand alone game (i.e. DotA 2)

War 3 was still $60 when dota was released? I find that a little hard to believe but I'll take your ward for it. PC games usually go down in price after a few months.

User Info: generalguy64

generalguy64
4 weeks ago#30
SpunkySix posted...
What I'm saying though is that once that novelty wears off they're not interesting at all.

Blastoise is a very cool design but that's literally all the character would have going for it.

Let's turn that around- who cares? Okay, the thing shooting a water cannon is a turtle with the cannon on its back. Sick. Now remember that almost all of its moves come from a pool shared by a ton of other water types, and factor in that "having the water come from cannons on its back" isn't a particularly mechanically interesting concept at all.

Also remember that as a nameless singular member of a species that doesn't speak words ever and will be in a game where emoting is visually difficult to demonstrate during gameplay outside of very broad personality-types. This goes for every single character, who will also like blastoise have zero speaking lines outside of vague grunts.

I don't particularly care if you'd be hyped for the concept and if it happens I hope you enjoy it, but I can't personally see that being compelling in any capacity. Pokemon work as designs because they come from an RPG monster collecting series where they don't need to be any sort of compelling as individual characters outside of their base visual designs. Just plopping that into another genre doesn't automatically make for an experience that fits the series meaningfully. It'd just be "oh cool there's the Pokemon that I know" and that's where it using the Pokemon IP would end in terms of significance basically.
If you've ever played the Mystery Dungeon games, you'd see that Pokemon, even those of the same species whose names are their species, all have their own personalities. Same with Pokken Tournament. The Blastoise in that game is going to be different than the one in Pokemon Unite, who is going to be different than the one owned by Gary Oak. (Don't know if Blastoise will be in Unite, but using it because it's a good example of a unique design.)

And yes, while the same moves can be taught to many different Pokemon, I can say with 100% certainty that they will not be adding every single Pokemon ever made into Unite. So it really doesn't matter if both Blastoise, Gyarados, and Lumineon can all learn Surf; not all of them are going to be added. Blastoise would play different from Suicune, who'd play different from Empoleon, who'd play different from Manaphy, etc. Think about how many sword users there are in League; they don't all play the same despite using the same type of weapon.
I once had a dream where Vulpix was playable in Smash. I fully support this now.
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