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  3. kayle is actually pretty good i think: my thoughts on build

User Info: SirFeed

SirFeed
1 month ago#1
been palying quite abit of kayle recently albeit at a low level (low diamond) so take this with a grain of salt
She has bad early game definitely however it is alittle overstated at how bad it is

she can actually trade ok with alot of top laners. she often wont win the trade but she can still trade competitively with top laners in early game unlike other champs where the trade will be extremely 1 sided (e.g nasus).
e.g compare this to irelia who usually has decent trades with most top laners.
15-39 bonus magic dmg on hit (from levels 1-9), 40-50% attack speed
10-60 magic dmg on hit (1-9), 30% as

legit the biggest difference between the two and one of the major reasons why kayles trading is still alittle iffy in early game is because her base ad and base armor is terrible
52 compared to 63 on irelia ad and 27 armor to 36 on irelia

the way her trading patter works against melees is you take slightly unfavourable trades early when they engage on you.
they end up with more hp but you try to sustain up and utilize your E range adv to poke them after they lost hp and then try to chase them down and all in when they engage on you again (because if they dont u will eventually sustain back up and poke them out)

rune wise i think the viable runes are:
fleet footwork: probably the all around rune that is good in most situations
conquerer: i think this is good into champs that you can actually trade quite competitivley early such as Irelia/aatrox etc
grasp: i think this could hypothetically be good but not too sure which matchups this would be good in yet
lethal tempo: i think this is ok but basically a worse conquerer because conquerer gives more combat stats into other top laners. lethal is probably better lategame due to better synergy with her waves but conquerer is better for trading early

secondary runes i think objectively the best choice is either resolve for very good melee trading lanes such as Jax so you have bone plating and revitalize for when they all in you.
Otherwise i think inspiration with warp tonic + boots or biscuits is good to synergize with your corrupting and give you good offensive pressure.

build wise: i've tested all the items and i think trinity force might actually be the best item to rush. its just simply the best trading item you can get and it also makes you extremely good at chasing down earlly kills with phage and ur passive/w/q. E-sheen proc is really good for poking and you can play as a psuedo gangplank. after that im not too sure but nashors is probably the best next item to rush. afterwards its all situational; if you are versing a really good dueling top laner it might be actually good to go phantom dancer for the shield and crit for your waves. i think its better to build survivability items (pd/rylais/zhonyas/wits etc rather than pure offense items at this point such as rageblade)
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/954437-league-of-legends/63627116
Sir Feed <:)

User Info: YoukaiSlayer

YoukaiSlayer
1 month ago#2
How does sheen into wits end feel? Have you tried that? I was thinking that might be a good way to trade well with poke early (only into magic damage champs, especially tanks).

Was also wondering if she can abuse klepto against tanks (or rather, if its worth it).

Was also wanting to try ardent rush and try to 2v2 a lot once you get it.

I was kinda worrying about rushing triforce since her base AD is so trash that spellblade is inherently less valuable on her.
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User Info: SirFeed

SirFeed
1 month ago#3
YoukaiSlayer posted...
How does sheen into wits end feel? Have you tried that? I was thinking that might be a good way to trade well with poke early (only into magic damage champs, especially tanks).

Was also wondering if she can abuse klepto against tanks (or rather, if its worth it).

Was also wanting to try ardent rush and try to 2v2 a lot once you get it.

I was kinda worrying about rushing triforce since her base AD is so trash that spellblade is inherently less valuable on her.

i think finishing sheen into triforce is really important if you are going the trinity force route because she utilizes the movespeed from phage and attack speed extremely well.
wits end is a pretty good item early game for her but doesnt have the best synergy with her later on but it is still a good item. id probably go it into hard mage matchups but i havent versed any yet cause topp doesnt have many mages (or they are usually banned). maybe wits end rush is good into stuff like rumble.

strongly believe conquerer is the best into tanks rather than klepto. relying on RNG for a skill point is not worth it.

not sure about support kayle but it might work
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/954437-league-of-legends/63627116
Sir Feed <:)

User Info: supercoolisaac

supercoolisaac
1 month ago#4
I am a big fan of kayle support but it has some iffy lanes
Tiltproof

User Info: SirFeed

SirFeed
1 month ago#5
if she had base stats like typical bruiser such as jax/irelia i strongly believe shed be extremely broken because imo thats the main reason her early game isnt good; not her abilities. if they do buff her i hope they dont buff base stats or dont give too much base stat buffs because that will definitely make her extremely strong.

another thing to mention however I do think she has some impossible matchups if played at a challenger level. I counterpicked a kayle with jax and it was extremely one sided. theres legit no getting back ever as jax duels her through 16.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/954437-league-of-legends/63627116
Sir Feed <:)

User Info: SirFeed

SirFeed
1 month ago#6
supercoolisaac posted...
I am a big fan of kayle support but it has some iffy lanes

i just find it hard to see benefit of kayle over something like taric. taric has the arguably better ult for support role. taric is probably better at dmg mitigation with guardian/w and q. Kayles poke is only really good if the enemy is already chipped and i feel like versing some of the other top tier supports you are always going to be the backfoot in lane as unlike melees in top lane you cant really trade with your passive steroid. also level 16 is more like a fantasy for supports
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/954437-league-of-legends/63627116
Sir Feed <:)

User Info: YoukaiSlayer

YoukaiSlayer
1 month ago#7
SirFeed posted...
if she had base stats like typical bruiser such as jax/irelia i strongly believe shed be extremely broken because imo thats the main reason her early game isnt good; not her abilities. if they do buff her i hope they dont buff base stats or dont give too much base stat buffs because that will definitely make her extremely strong.

another thing to mention however I do think she has some impossible matchups if played at a challenger level. I counterpicked a kayle with jax and it was extremely one sided. theres legit no getting back ever as jax duels her through 16.

Could kayle build bruiser tank and win? Like only Triforce/Wits end/Nashors/Shojin+rylais for damage and just keep him out of auto range with rylais+movespeed buff from heal. Stuff like spirit, randuins, etc to survive the first stun, and ult to survive the second and kite away.

Ugh, I need to stop theory crafting and actually just try her out a bunch. I've found it quite hard to get her in matches. Banned a lot and first picked a lot.
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User Info: YoukaiSlayer

YoukaiSlayer
1 month ago#8
SirFeed posted...
i just find it hard to see benefit of kayle over something like taric. taric has the arguably better ult for support role. taric is probably better at dmg mitigation with guardian/w and q. Kayles poke is only really good if the enemy is already chipped and i feel like versing some of the other top tier supports you are always going to be the backfoot in lane as unlike melees in top lane you cant really trade with your passive steroid. also level 16 is more like a fantasy for supports

I still think ardent>wits end on kayle support actually makes you pretty valuable as support. Taric doesn't have a MASSIVE movespeed buff for you and a teammate and I'd say the ults are comparable. The delay on taric ult is a significant downside and the slow in kayles helps kite away at the end of it especially when paired with kayles movespeed buff.

Against a fed assassin I'd much rather kayle ult protecting me than taric. With aery kayles poke isn't great but its ok even at full health.

Obviously 16 is a fantasy but 11 isn't and at that point you become a decent carry threat. If you manage to get to that 3rd item rylais then it becomes pretty hard to deal with and all of those items are super cheap.
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User Info: supercoolisaac

supercoolisaac
1 month ago#9
YoukaiSlayer posted...
SirFeed posted...
i just find it hard to see benefit of kayle over something like taric. taric has the arguably better ult for support role. taric is probably better at dmg mitigation with guardian/w and q. Kayles poke is only really good if the enemy is already chipped and i feel like versing some of the other top tier supports you are always going to be the backfoot in lane as unlike melees in top lane you cant really trade with your passive steroid. also level 16 is more like a fantasy for supports

I still think ardent>wits end on kayle support actually makes you pretty valuable as support. Taric doesn't have a MASSIVE movespeed buff for you and a teammate and I'd say the ults are comparable. The delay on taric ult is a significant downside and the slow in kayles helps kite away at the end of it especially when paired with kayles movespeed buff.

Against a fed assassin I'd much rather kayle ult protecting me than taric. With aery kayles poke isn't great but its ok even at full health.

Obviously 16 is a fantasy but 11 isn't and at that point you become a decent carry threat. If you manage to get to that 3rd item rylais then it becomes pretty hard to deal with and all of those items are super cheap.

I think it's pretty similar to Zilean support honestly. Ranged poke, slows, and multi person speed ups. It's not nearly as high of damage as something like zyra/brand where you can 100-0 people but she has enough damage to be threatening in skirmishes and help finish people off with the bonus that she doesn't need to build damage. Athenes/ardent are all you need till like 5th/6th item and if you do make it that far and get to hit your 16 she's like 80% of a real carry.

Only problem so far is that I keep going oom early on but haven't got a chance to test out manaflow. Also I go guardian not aery but that might be ok in some lanes.

https://u.gg/lol/champions/kayle/pro-build/?role=support
Tiltproof

User Info: YoukaiSlayer

YoukaiSlayer
1 month ago#10
Manaflow is definitely nice. The first time I even went manaflow and biscuits but I doubt it's worth giving up alacrity/overheal or boneplating/revitalize.
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