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User Info: beatumdown

beatumdown
4 years ago#1
Hey folks. I need some feedback.

I just got a lucky aquistion of a Morgenlote with 3 element levels off a Blade Mother (Of course I Celebed that S.O.B). So its a LV 3 CelebMorgenlote. No bonus percentages, but a 47% Acc Adj. Gonna grind max it and add that 15% to Dark (I always add to Dark) :D

I am still gunning for a Clair Doubles though. When I get one I can only max grind it and add the 15% extra to the 4 attributes. Since its a rare item I cannot modify its element. Though it is fixed with LV2 Celeb on it.

So my question is. Statisically the Morgenlote is infeior with an ATP of 397 (417 grinded) and an ACC of 210 (257 with bonus Acc Adj) and fixed with only the PA: Tornado Dance compare to a Claire Doubles with an ATP of 418 (458 grinded) and an ACC of 245, plus it can end up with any PA or none at all.

If I got a Clair Doubles would it stil out perform my Morgenlote with the attributes I just previously described on the one I have? Or should just wait to ask this question till I get a Claire Doubles and see what percentages I get and PA I get? :D
{{If you "Act" up, then you must get "Jacked" up!}}
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User Info: SapphireOfChaos

SapphireOfChaos
4 years ago#2
A good Morgenlote always beats out Clair Doubles, sadly. The extra level of Celeb will be a slight improvement on its DPS, even when you have an Element Boost slotted into your armor (making the Morgenlote have an effective Celeb Lv4 and Clair Doubles have an effective Celeb Lv3).

Now, as far as Double Saber DPS is concerned, that can rely on your character's race, class, and gender. I'm sure extensive testing was done on this in the past, but let's crunch some numbers using four specific race/class/gender combos and the top 3 ATK Double Sabers (Morgenlote, Clair Doubles, and Gigas Romulus):

HUcast (highest ATK Hunter; has no on-demand solo Shifta access)
----- 504 Attack @Lv100
----- 584 w/ 80 Power Materials
----- 684 w/ 100 Power Mag
----- 759 Attack w/ 3x Divine/Power

HUmar (third-highest Attack; highest Attack Shifta user in solo)
----- 468 Attack @Lv100
----- 568 w/ 100 Power Materials
----- 668 w/ 100 Power Mag (note that Mag Attack increase is not affected by Shifta, and is applied afterwards)
----- 743 Attack w/ 3x Divine/Power (also applied AFTER Shifta)


HUnewm (second-weakest Hunter; strongest Gigas Romulus wielder, capable of solo Shifta use)
----- 423 Attack @Lv100
----- 503 Attack w/ 80 Power Materials
----- 603 Attack w/ 100 Power Mag (applied after Shifta modifier)
----- 678 Attack w/ 3x Divine/Power (applied after Shifta mod)

HUnewearl (lowest-Attack Hunter; capable of using Gigas Romulus, has solo play Shifta access)
----- 405 Attack @Lv100
----- 485 Attack w/ 80 Power Materials
----- 585 Attack w/ 100 Power Mag (applied after Shifta modifier)
----- 660 Attack w/ 3x Divine/Power (applied after Shifta mod)


*Weapon Attack variables at max grind
(note that each weapon has a minimum and maximum value used when attacking, so its damage is varied based on the difference between its max and min values):
----- Clair Doubles: 333 - 458 Attack (the smallest variance)
----- Morgenlote: 298 - 417 Attack
----- Gigas Romulus: 260 - 447 Attack (the largest variance by far)

*(Weapon Attack values are added after Shifta mod)


Celeb Lv damage boost:
----- Lv2 = 1.2x Attack
----- Lv3 = 1.3x Attack
----- Lv4 = 1.4x Attack (not applicable for Clair Doubles)

Element Boost on armor slot adds 1 rank to each Celeb Lv to increase its Attack modifier to the next level in the above table. Element Boost does not stack, so it will not work in sets of 2 or more.


Shifta Attack boost @Lv6-10
(max value for solo Human/Newman Hunters):
----- 1.25x Attack (only affects base Attack stat + Power Materials)
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User Info: SapphireOfChaos

SapphireOfChaos
4 years ago#3
So with all those modifiers and values out of the way, let's see what all this comes out to:

HUcast w/ Morgenlote:
----- 759 Attack + 298/417 Attack = 1057 - 1176 Attack
----- x1.4 = 1479.8 - 1646.4 Attack

HUcast w/ Clair Doubles:
----- 759 Attack + 333/458 Attack = 1092 - 1217 Attack
----- x1.3 = 1419.6 - 1582.1 Attack

HUmar w/ Morgenlote:
----- 568 x 1.25 (Shifta) = 710 Attack
----- + 175 Attack (Mag and Divine/Powers) = 885 Attack

----- 885 Attack + 298/417 Attack = 1183 - 1302 Attack
----- x1.4 = 1656.2 - 1822.8 Attack

HUmar w/ Clair Doubles:
----- 885 Attack + 333/458 Attack = 1218 - 1343 Attack
----- x1.3 = 1583.4 - 1745.9 Attack

HUnewm w/ Morgenlote:
----- 503 Attack x 1.25 (Shifta) = 628.75 Attack
----- + 175 Attack = 803.75 Attack

----- 803.75 Attack + 298/417 Attack = 1101.75 - 1220.75
----- x1.4 = 1542.45 - 1709.05 Attack

HUnewm w/ Clair Doubles:
----- 803.75 Attack + 333/458 Attack = 1136.75 - 1261.75 Attack
----- x1.3 = 1477.775 - 1640.275 Attack

HUnewm w/ Gigas Romulus:
----- 803.75 Attack + 260/447 Attack = 1063.75 - 1250.75 Attack
----- x1.4 = 1489.25 - 1751.05 Attack

HUnewearl w/ Morgenlote:
----- 485 Attack x 1.25 (Shifta) = 606.25 Attack
----- + 175 Attack = 781.25 Attack

----- 781.25 Attack + 298/417 Attack = 1079.25 - 1198.25 Attack
----- x1.4 = 1510.95 - 1677.55 Attack

HUnewearl w/ Clair Doubles :
----- 781.25 Attack + 333/458 Attack = 1114.25 - 1239.25 Attack
----- x1.3 = 1448.525 - 1611.025 Attack

HUnewearl w/ Gigas Romulus:
----- 781.25 Attack + 260/447 Attack = 1041.25 - 1228.25 Attack
----- x1.4 = 1457.75 - 1719.55 Attack


Those are probably not exactly what you were looking for, but this should shed some light on overall Double Saber effectiveness.
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User Info: beatumdown

beatumdown
4 years ago#4
@Chaosmaster00 you are the man with the plan! You broke that formula down SHOTGUN style! LoL

Thanks for taking the time to shed some light on this! I still want a want a Claire Doubles though for collection purposes.

I think its fair to say that the use of Shifta & Deband for Hunters kind of upset the balance PSO Zero unlike predecessor PSO I&II where non-Cast Hunters were fixed with Zalure & Jellen instead. Casts are supposed to be the top damage dealers of the Hunter class solo, but even HUnewearls out class them due to them having Shifta. Oh well. LoL

Now one more factor that was not added in though. There is a bonus +50 to attack when the Claire Doubles is used with a Hunter Shell armour equipped for which I do possess with 4 slots to. :D I wonder would that make a difference?

I know pratically I would not be donning a Hunter Shell, but lets say I do. LoL

Thanks again for that breakdown. :)
{{If you "Act" up, then you must get "Jacked" up!}}
3DS FC~Beatumdown:3711-9502-4467 & Beatumup:3969-7378-0441

User Info: SapphireOfChaos

SapphireOfChaos
4 years ago#5
It's applied the same time to Clair Doubles's Attack is, and affects both its min and max Attack values. So realistically, Clair Doubles' final Attack would only increase by about 80, which seems to be just enough to put its min and max values squarely above Morgenlote's values.

The problem then becomes that lose a SIGNIFICANT amount of defense in doing so, especially as a Hunter Cast or HUnewearl, who have access to armors better than Noble Cloak... which is very bad for general meandering on Super difficulty because a lot of stuff will hit you even harder, should you be unable to get away in time, which unfortunately will happen often, as Double Sabers tend to keep you on the spot unless you're spamming Tornado Dance.

But, that's not particularly what you asked for...
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User Info: beatumdown

beatumdown
4 years ago#6
@Chaosmaster00 I really appreciate the time you took to present this formula to me. I was going to go with the Morgenlote anyway, but now you really put me on the step in the right direction. :D

Now onward to try to get me a Clair Doubles, and a 3 LV Element Gigas Romulus. I guess the stars, planets, and the sun will have to be in perfect alignment for me to get lucky on that drop inside the tower! LOL
{{If you "Act" up, then you must get "Jacked" up!}}
3DS FC~Beatumdown:3711-9502-4467 & Beatumup:3969-7378-0441

User Info: SapphireOfChaos

SapphireOfChaos
4 years ago#7
Correction to the above: it doesn't boost Clair Doubles' final attack by about 80, it boosts it by about 65. Stupid me forgetting to halve the results of 100(%) x .3 for the Celeb modifier bonus to the +50 Attack Hunter Frame gives with it. I know, minor details, but details nonetheless. <.<
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User Info: beatumdown

beatumdown
4 years ago#8
No probs! LoL Its a lot of number crunching! :D
{{If you "Act" up, then you must get "Jacked" up!}}
3DS FC~Beatumdown:3711-9502-4467 & Beatumup:3969-7378-0441
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