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User Info: Dzarnt

12 years ago#1
I saw there was a FAQ attempt started but FAQ is complicate, just a list of tips and tricks is more simple.

So what are your tips and tricks for this game? From basic for a newbie to advanced for a seasoned player.

I start with a short list:
* Start all maps with 3 buildings at same time. Peasants seems to wake up only if a building is build by less than 2 peasants and most often you start with 6 peasants.
* Use speed at 0.2 and pauses to start your buildings.

* For recruiting parties you need let the party window open to let time for heroes to come to the inn to postulate.

* During a pause you can add and remove any flags you want. You can exploit this to use some weird tactics to have heroes switching more easily from one flag you remove during pause to a flag you add at same time.

* Most often a tradepost in a non safe area will be supported very well by one mage tower close and on side where are coming most foes. The mage tower cost will always be lower than tradepost profits if enough caravans reach your marketplace. They key is the auto repair function.
* Don't try protect a (non quest) caravan but protect their path to your marketplace. Caravan don't have multipliers like in Majesty 1 so you can end quickly in lost money if you try protect one specifically.

* Tax collectors deposit taxes at castle but also at Guardhouses, sometimes it's better think Guardhouses emplacements for this purpose than for defense reasons.

* Elves do both magic and range attacks but blacksmith bows only increase range attacks.

* Use a Guardhouse against Ogres. You only need put it roughly on their path as they are attracted by them.

(NOTE: if more are added, I'll add the list updated at end of topic after additions or discussions).

User Info: Neonivek

12 years ago#2
-Wizards are weak and prone to death and your first instinct will always to put their guilds as far away from danger as possible. Resist this urge! The best placement for Wizard guilds are as close to Sewers as possible (the ones that spawn ordinary rats, Ratmen from the pipes are a bit more dangerous) this will allow your wizards to get more kills and gain levels as a result.

-Unfortunately despite the wide selection of heros available there are two Temple heros that simply out perform the rest. You should get them in this order
1st) Temple of Agrella: While Priestesses of Agrella arn't too special on their own the point of this temple is for its researched Resurection spell.
Every other location) Paladins: Paladins out perform all others. They gain HP from leveling faster then most enemies can damage them, in a game that is based around bosses this is an essential skill.
-Note: This strategy changes only when a special ability of a temple or the hero changes the strategy of the map. There are two maps where this applies.

-There are only two reasons you would want to use Lords and they are as follows
1) Low Cost heros: Rogues, Rangers, and Warriors may not be all that powerful relative to the wizards, clerics, Dwarves, or Temple heros however when you apply the cost of those other heros and how cheap even a level 90 Rogue is, it more then makes the difference,
2) Low level Paladin (maybe dwarf): If you can somehow manage to get low level Paladin and especially multiple then you have an A-team for some of the most difficult maps in the game. It takes a lot to take down a Paladin.
-The main reason you don't use high cost (10,000+ Gold) heros is that it is not only more cost efficiant to just get more ordinary heros but cheap ones can turn the tide of the early game. A Level 90 Rogue or Level 1 Paladin is a great asset in the first 15 minutes of a map.

That is all for now.

User Info: Dzarnt

12 years ago#3
Thanks for your tips, some comments about them, just my point of view.

About wizards:
I agree with the advice to not put them in a safe place far from action. But sewers can be not safe for low level wizards and soon rats won't bring much xp.

I used an approach similar to your suggestion in Battle for Survival in the Desert but I replaced rats by Werewolves. ;-) I put their guild rather isolated to south east of castle but also behind a tradepost, one normal tower and a wizard tower in front of coming waves. On this path was coming imps, demons, but also werewolves and they made it like a charm, I just take care first to use attack flags on big beasts like Werewolves or Elementals to be sure the Mages come to the action and level up fast.

That sort of approach won't work in much cases. But I'm starting to quote a more general approach. Again I put the guild not far from a hot place but I also make sure Warriors aren't too far. And when enemy come close I don't let events happen but use attack flag of a relatively low value. This flag attract very well Wizards and Fighters and Fighters will attract the attention and the wizards will kill fast and level up rapidly. Not using the attack flag involves much more random and using defense flags or two heroes parties doesn't work as well. Once the wizards level up enough and had bought healing potions I take less care of using flags.

About Lords:
Yes, and in the campaign a possibility is before end of each map take care to build a second Dwarf Guild and recruit them before the final and choose as Lord the one with the best attributes.

About Temples:
I can't disagree about Agrela. But beside the disbalanced spell they also respond very well to flags, and will be the last survivor in most cases and they are a bit faster than slowest heroes like Paladins and Krypta. But their damages are rather low against non undead not too mention than that at least half of time they heal and not attack.

For Paladins I didn't use them a lot so I could not see them as good than they are. For me Krypta has a more general use:
* For the Tank, Dwarf can play very well the role and sometimes a bit better than Paladin because of their high magic resistance (With all class buffers 80 vs 35 for Paladin).
* For the Long Range, Krypta has probably the longest range and that can be rather helpful.
* Their Drain Life spell make them very resistant.
* Their attack is rather powerful when it's probably a weakness for Paladins.
* Their summon aren't that powerful but useful anyway.
* They respond much better to attack flags and attack occasions than Paladins.

Against the Lich Boss the two Krypta Priestess last much longer than all other heroes including the two Paladins, one die and another flee. If I remember well all attacks of this boss are area attack. Both Priestess flee few before the boss was killed. Well the circumstances was special as I was playing with no Cleric and no Agrela and didn't manage the final fight fully well. Well I don't mean they'll make a tank as well than Paladin but that Dwarf+Krypta can be better than Paladin+Anything Else.

For the other Temple Heroes:
* It's clear that Blademasters has something "wrong" and was probably the Temple Heroes that died the more (that's rather rare for temple heroes) in my games. But their Guild spell is a real plus in bosses fights or mass fights and their knock back area attack can be very handy sometimes.
* I'm not sure about the Archer, it doesn't seem that good.
* But the Beasmaster is rather intriguing. The Bear summon is incredibly resistant when they are fully buffed, even against bosses. Beasmasters are good fighters, have useful summons and are the strongest explorers. Not the same use than tank or fighter but I think they can be more handy than Paladins in many maps.

User Info: Neonivek

12 years ago#4
"soon rats won't bring much xp"

Won't Matter, the problem with Wizards is that they soon hit a point where they don't die instantly and can take down enemies before they get close (as well as get the Ice Spell). The Rats are good enough to get them to an appropriate level where they won't die against ordinary enemies.

"Against the Lich Boss the two Krypta Priestess last much longer than all other heroes"

As for Krypta the reason she survived is because she wasn't under attack. Paladins take attacks. Were she without the Paladins I question if she would have survived.

In defense of the Paladin, I had a low level (1-5) solo three Greater Elementals for five minutes without dying (because it basically kept gaining levels).

Ohh and that reminds me

Some abilities you train for your heros are better then others. Some are bonuses while others turn your characters into monsters. Here is a list of skills to train as fast as possible for each hero. This isn't the list of the only good skills just the fast essentials to get them up to "useful".
-Rogues: Stun Attack! It isn't unreasonable to skip all others just to get this quicker. While not as damaging, it helps on maps where powerful enemies will attack you early on.
-Warrior: First Skill. AoE is great for early enemies who come in hoards
-Ranger: First skill, otherwise they don't do damage.
-Cleric: On Undead maps their first skill ASAP!
-Wizard: Their Ice Spell.
-Dwarf: You really can't go wrong. They are about taking hits. Though their skills are honestly so cheap that there is no excuse not to get them as soon as the guild is up
-Elf: Magic Arrow! This does a lot of damage especially against buildings where they demolish it almost instantly. (The point of Elves is to clear out the stage)

-There are two general strategies when it comes to lairs. You can either destroy them as soon as possible, or, keep them until your heros are at a fantastical level. Generally speaking I don't suggest mixing these strategies.

Trade Posts
-THEY ARE NOT a Bonus. They are essential.

-Skills only need to be bought from a guild once. As long as that guild still stands everyone can train there.
-Despite warnings of death, infighting is rather tame at best. Don't worry about it.

-Despite all the party makeups there are only Three important possitions in a party and they are as follows
-LEADER: The leader is the one who, well, leads the party. Leaders need to be the type who respond to flags and defend the kingdom. Good leaders are Rogues and Warriors. Bad Leaders are Clerics. Elves would SEEM like a good Leader, in fact they respond to flags often more then rogues, however their issue is that their enhanced speed makes them attack enemies too soon.
-CLERIC: Honestly there is little point to making a party unless there is a Cleric. Priestess of Agrella can also fulfil this role.
-THE TANK: There is very little middle ground in terms of health. Warriors and Paladins make the best tanks due to their ability to take attention away from enemies. Dwarves are better tanks then Warriors and are good as a substitute.
-THE SUCKY HERO!: While not an essential possition. One important use for Guilds is to get heros who wouldn't normally respond to flags, take on enemies, or survive to do so.

User Info: Dzarnt

12 years ago#5
For the rats and the wizard I used this approach in many maps and for me it's too slow level up and too dangerous. The random chance that they get killed is too high. That's why I don't use this anymore. Well ok I agree it's a good approach anyway if you don't mind get a high change to have one or two death.

For the Lich King I had in mind he had only an area attack but it's more probably one area short range and one area long range. So your explanation is most probably right. Still Krypta are surprisingly strong because of their constant healing, long range and summons. But not up to match a true Tank like Paladin or Dwarf and if they are stronger than Fighters. Also their long range remove them the ability to be the tank.

For the essential skills, I would agree for the beginning of a map. Otherwise I don't always agree for a more general point of view or for make them monsters as you wrote. For example:
* Warriors first skill is far to match the two other skills, in fact even for the beginning I consider an excellent approach to aim Warrior third skill before many other things.
* For Rangers the third skill is a killer.
* For Mages yes the Ice spell is essential but the last spell is slow but the area damages has no equivalent and can be priceless against mass of monsters, I would not get it before they level up enough but later that transform their role. Also even fire skill worth it a lot because it does a lot more damages than normal attack and won't be replaced by ice casting.
* For Clerics their second skill is a big boost to their mana capacity and it's rather important to make them play their full role.
* For elves I would use the same arguing than you used for dwarf, get them all they are so cheap.
* For Rogues I agree but before getting anything else research the poison ability, it's not a class skill but that make it even better.

For creep strategy yes that's the basics but I disagree about the comment on not mixing them. A good example are Ogres in Demon Advisor map, you could delay a bit destroying all Ogres Dens to use them for leveling up low level characters. But after some time it's better destroy them to get some air. In general the point is you could use some time dens to get xp for some level and destroy after to get rid of the nuisance or get some air, and not for the creep strategy you quote.

For party that's a solid set of advices, totally agree on those basics. But I think that looking at party only from this point of view is a bit restrictive. A first point is that heroes don't need a Cleric to survive. For long battle against bosses it's better have a healer. But there are other usages than for bosses.
Some example:
* 1 Elf leader + 1 Elf + 1 Mage + 1 Cleric is a rather interesting party. The two elves will arrive first the second will protect the first and both will attract attention and start stun and immobilize, then when the mage comes it brings the fire power and the Cleric a possible healing support that Elf won't need before a long time.
* Elf leader with elf arriving the first is often working rather well if the elf isn't too low level.
* Parties of 2, just to manage the point you quoted, make a hero be more active.
* Ranger Leader + 1 Elf. This can manage very well exploration through a more dangerous place.
* Warrior leader + 3 rogues can be an excellent fight machine the fighter protecting the rogues with taunt and the 3 rogues protecting the warrior with stun.
* Cleric leader need more testing. The Cleric flag response is unique and it can be interesting to have a party like that. A possible problem is Cleric can be distracted a lot from a task for healing something.
* Krypta Leader is a very interesting choice for a party responding very well to any attack flag or attack chance. Their slow speed will ensure everyone is here and grouped.

User Info: Neonivek

12 years ago#6
Krypta and most of the other Temple heros not being up to par is really one of the games largest faults.

Because the toughest enemies in the game simply demolish everyone around them at once, they sort of eliminate the importance of some heros in the late game.

"I would agree for the beginning of a map"

Of course. These are simply the skills you should blitz to get or even not consider getting the hero until it is obtained.

Afterall one of the Cleric's skills is Mana Regeneration. It just isn't the skill Id say "If you don't have it, don't bother with Clerics" or "You should get it as soon as you have Clerics"

"it's a good approach anyway if you don't mind get a high change to have one or two death"

Well, there are ways to improve a Wizard's chances. Namely to include a tower. I don't like using Inns at all because of how the game handles it.

User Info: Dzarnt

12 years ago#7
About imbalance of temple heroes:
Toughest enemies? You mean bosses? First point that's not true for Agrela and Krypta.

Also Paladin have many flaws, not responding well to flags, slow, low damages. For me the only temple Hero they make weird is the Blademaster. Also the Archer of Helia isn't appealing because Elf make them pale. But Agrela has no match, Beasmaster is better explorer than anything, Krypa is great long range fighter much more resistant to any long range character and respond very well to attack flags, only their slow speed like Paladin is a burden. Additionally Paladins are the Temple Hero with Archer of Helia with a non Temple Hero rather close to them, Dwarf and Elf. So if Paladin is better for bosses and that's not true for all bosses, you don't need them for any bosses. So even if against bosses there's a balance broken, it's not that much important.

The game has many more bigger flaws. For example I feel much more important to not have more Heroes choice for first parts of the game because temple heroes are late too get.

About blitz skills:
Ok skills for the Blitz, not really to make them monsters as you wrote. So on this blitz restricted point of view I agree much more with your list.

With one exception I'll often use in priority Warriors 2 latest skills, before all non first skills you quoted. I mean before later skills for Rogues and even Mages. Elfe and Dwarf aren't anyway blitz classes. And I'll even skip building first upgrade and first skill of Rangers and Clerics, for Clerics if there isn't plenty undead around.

For the Cleric skill, the mana regen skill is a key point in most maps where they are the healer support when you don't need bother of their first skill (but it's so cheap that you'll get it anyway). Mana potion won't do the trick as well because without this skill their mana will end a lot sooner. it's definitely a skill I goal often in priority to have an efficient healing support.

About decreasing Wizards death chance:
For wizard yes towers but towers and sewers too soon won't be a so good match. The point of using attack flags as I quoted is they attract very well low level wizards and warriors. When you let the wizard wandering you take much more risk even with a tower close to the guild.

For Inns I didn't quote this for this purpose I'll try. I feel that Wizard won't take much profit of this because if they flee and will die, even a shorter path won't save them, but I'll try explore this possibility anyway. But Inn can be great for Rogues, Fighters or Rangers against monsters with poison and with an Inn well placed.

I don't see what you feel wrong in Inns. That's a good way to shorten flee path and even sometimes to shorten the go to home path. And the cheese state they provide is a nice bonus.

User Info: Neonivek

12 years ago#8
Well the largest problem with the Inn is namely that if you have the time to put your characters into a party then it wasn't very important.

I found Inns to be more "Just for fun" then essential on any map where I had a realistic chance of losing.

I need to start taking videos of myself playing. People keep doubting my strategies.

FLAGS: Strategic overpricing
-Money you give to your heros is eventually siphoned back to you through taxes and store sales. Don't be afraid to put more cash into a flag then is needed. Especially since Equipment upgrades and potions are essential. The only way to lose this cash is if a hero dies or you drop the flag. Best of all unlike Defense flags they don't have the tendency to leave gaping holes in your defense.

User Info: Dzarnt

12 years ago#9
Ha ok your your complain is less about Inns than about Party building. Yes I agree it seems a bit flawed. For the Inn it's a cool building anyway.

About defense flags, they are great but you need take care of two points:
* Heroes will stick to a defense flag and won't restore buy some potions or anything. So keeping a defense flag on during a long time can have negative results.
* Defense flags won't attract same heroes than attack flags. You'll need a quite higher flag value and lower number on heroes already on the flag to attract some heroes like Dwarf, Krypta and even Paladin.

About attack flags: Don't under evaluate them for defense purpose, for sure the defense flag is more handy for this purpose but the attack flag will attract different heroes, particularly for heroes at high level. Also they are more dynamic and will allow a rolling of heroes much better than a defense flag so they restore and purchase when needed.

About flags cost:
* Apply some patience when you setup a flag and resist temptation to quickly increase its value to get an instant heroes reaction.
* The money you give to heroes through flags is great but high value flags isn't a good thing. They involve a too high attraction with many negative effects. This will make your tactic more static because the high value flag will make work less well your other flags, cancel such flag will lost more money, this could attract too low level heroes, this could make some heroes behave with less care than they are used to do.
* Build a statue and then use a lower value for your flags.

User Info: Dzarnt

12 years ago#10
Neonivek about doubting of your tips, for me not at all there are plenty I agree a lot with. The only tips I feel dubious (just my point of view) is the one with mages and sewers (that I tried quite a lot), that keeping dens alive only during some time can't be an excellent choice too, other comments I made was more to bring some relativity to some points and add some information or some other key points on a subject.

If you mind testing your tactics you should try the user map, Day of the Bay. As it's a random map it can be very different at each play but if you want we could exchange some save, even if from a same save there are special waves that will be random. I have currently some saves of a play with a rather rough setup if you mind try the challenge I saved at different time. :-)

Myself I'm not that good and could not make video because of that and because I play at speed 0.5. It's just that now I played quite a lot and like testing new approach, that's how I discovered at my surprise how good it was to put focus more on the warrior skills when usually I was targeting first the first skills, almost exactly those you quoted. But because I play most often at speed 0.5 some of my advice are good only with such play speed to allow a higher level of micro management. But well it's difficult to make the share between tips for 0.5 and tips for any speed. :-)
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