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User Info: MrStarkiller

MrStarkiller
4 years ago#21
>come from works of fiction
Quite. Helps to actually describe characters (capturing the imagination *giving the believer something to visualize and 'know'*). Settings too. There really isn't much said for either Lucifer or Hell. Lots of confusion between the different titles/handles of the former too. Hell itself (Sheol originally) isn't all that much better for being well understood among the faithful (in Christianity *casual observer or practitioner of the faith*). There ain't much to say (in canon).

>didn't use as much as you should have
No more than you should have. It was a f*** about special like Cursed Remains. Piercing Shards was the money maker, bread winner, etc.

>liked PS more
As one should. Significantly more useful. Very hard to argue with an on-demand knockback (even if a bit short on range). What's that? It can aim up/down a bit on its own? It goes through targets (able to hit more than just one)? Ignores barriers? Immune to Power % and settings, yet still gets stronger with upgrades (not altered by rage modifiers though)? Doesn't (usually) count for a hit in the combo meter? There are means to make an already quick start-up and recovery attack like this even safer to abuse (and more rapidly fired again)? Hmmm, yes. Sounds like it might be exploitable given that knockback spam would enable locks in a lot of cases aside from ring-outs, collisions and all that good stuff (positioning comes to mind as well). The damn thing can be done in the air too (for all those hard to reach places).

DR's laser starts off stronger, but PS can outgrow it (though it won't likely match the combination of the direct hit and the laser. PS can't match the range, but comes out faster while being better able to hit targets along a vertical plane not your own. Nothing stops PS, but DR can be blocked to prevent the trample effect it usually has (going through multiple targets). DR only goes through barriers from point blank, but PS simply doesn't give a s***. The two are both very, very good (especially in runs like what we do in vanilla VH and beyond).

It's just such a shame that SoD didn't have more going for it. BoO MAX enjoys AotG which serves as a passive use of its best special on each strike. PS having a one-third power (and lesser hit stun) version of PS on each normal would be insanity. Alternatively, having each attack able to apply 'altering' (and the limit being increased to allow many more foes at once to experience the effect). That would be quite chaotic on-screen, but with it being a lesser altering (not taking the place of the stronger version), it shouldn't be too distracting (with explosions blowing foes all over the screen).

Altering Slash and Cursed Remains could really have used the special properties of the 'shards' regarding damage stability (only being effected by weapon upgrades, but not the modifier nor even Power % while the physical strikes they have work like everything else in the game *just as what was done for BoO's DR*). That would have helped them better keep pace in an interesting way, I feel. AS requiring a special glitching technique to multi-alter hurt its appeal (and the limitations even for that hurt worse). UR just wasn't terribly good (and having the bomb fail to drop in a number of cases wasn't so hot either).

>many combos lack cancels
Can't say I'd be a fan. GoW:A really didn't learn its lessons from the past in a number of ways. This was one of them. Did Plume ever feel as unsafe (and weak) as this? I do wonder. At least we had Shield Plume (quite by accident, I'm sure *putting aside the exploits making it even more powerful*).

>haven't started
You and me both. Sigma isn't as good for NG2, but for NG1, it ought to be acceptable enough, really.

>Revegeance
Haven't played much of it.

>SWFU1
I will teach you the ways of Starkiller.

>not very good
Would rather talk about Ferguson.

User Info: Hotel_Security

Hotel_Security
4 years ago#22
Quite. Helps to actually describe characters (capturing the imagination *giving the believer something to visualize and 'know'*). Settings too.

Quite so. The problem being stupid believers who think this is the "official lore" as it is.

It was a f*** about special like Cursed Remains. Piercing Shards was the money maker, bread winner, etc.

Ah, lovely...would hate to think I was missing something.

Immune to Power % and settings, yet still gets stronger with upgrades

What does this mean exactly? Power %?

Can't say I'd be a fan. GoW:A really didn't learn its lessons from the past in a number of ways. This was one of them.

I know...unless a move is specifically designed to have no cancels for risk/reward reasons, I don't see why any action game wouldn't have more of these.

>haven't started
You and me both. Sigma isn't as good for NG2, but for NG1, it ought to be acceptable enough, really.


Yeah, SBK mentioned all the weird and wacky things they did with NG Sigma 2. As it is, it still may be my best option for playing the game. But we'll see how I feel after NG1.

>Revegeance
Haven't played much of it.


I heard shaky things on it but SBK seemed to like it. Plus it's pretty damn cheap now.

>SWFU1
I will teach you the ways of Starkiller.


One of these days, Alice...

>not very good
Would rather talk about Ferguson.


Blech. I'd rather set myself on fire. Though I guess Baltimore is the hot topic these days...

User Info: MrStarkiller

MrStarkiller
4 years ago#23
>think it is canon
Surprisingly prevalent, these misunderstandings from pop culture.

>missed something
Nothing too important regarding efficient play.

>what does this mean
When upgraded, weapon modifiers change the values on attacks. Usually starting with 1.0 and most often ending at MAX being 3.0. Usually. Not always. SoD's PS doesn't care about that at all (it upgrades, but at its own pace *otherwise it would deal 30 damage per shot at MAX instead of 20*).

As for Power %, this is the damage we deal altered by costumes and setting (difficulty) aside from RotG. On Normal it is at 100% (default values). On VH, it is (usually) at 75%. SoD's PS doesn't give a s***.

So, if you had 1000% Power and some insane modifier like 10.0 set (both impossible in GoWII), Piercing Shards would not be affected. Only the level of the weapon matters (in that it changes the PS to be lvl1, lvl2 or lvl3 as if each is a unique move). Even RotT cannot fool the move as it merely alters your modifiers as if they were a (usually) higher level (doesn't actually give higher level moves).

This is good for us as we deal in conditions where we have the base modifiers (10 damage in this case isn't so bad) and terrible Power % (where 10 damage looks incredible compared to 0.75 as with BoA s1). Our focus with PS isn't always on direct damage (as you well know), but where we are otherwise weak, it shines quite nicely owed to the relatively unique way it operates.

>SBK
Someone you can listen to generally speaking. I imagine you two have spoken about KH in the past as well.

>seemed to like it
I still haven't gotten around to doing much with it. No real motivation.

>one of these days
You'll be sent to the Moon (to play among the stars).

>rather self-immolate
Not a very good pyromancy.

>Baltimore
I haven't been interested enough to pay any mind to these follow-up stories.

>hot topic
If only it involved someone being set on fire. Perhaps mace followed by a tazing. That would go over just dandy.

User Info: Hotel_Security

Hotel_Security
4 years ago#24
SoD's PS doesn't give a s***.

Ah, understood. PS channeling honey badger, I see.

This is good for us as we deal in conditions where we have the base modifiers (10 damage in this case isn't so bad) and terrible Power % (where 10 damage looks incredible compared to 0.75 as with BoA s1).

True. But I wouldn't be bothering with such a wimpy run anyway...gotta be blades only.

>SBK
Someone you can listen to generally speaking. I imagine you two have spoken about KH in the past as well.


I still see him popping his head into the KH boards here and there. He's been strangely absent from my Level 1 coverage but there are other vets on the boards who fill that role.

>seemed to like it
I still haven't gotten around to doing much with it. No real motivation.


Yeah, seeing Raiden in that lame suit on the cover is a nice deterrent. I have the game but have a bunch of other H&S games I'll play before it. And there's always Bayo 2 but it's still like $45 in stores. That's what sucks about Nintendo products...it seems they just don't drop in price. Ever. Especially exclusives or the first-party ones. The last Zelda game for the Wii is still $40 and the Wii is basically dead.

>rather self-immolate
Not a very good pyromancy.


Yeah, that's kind of the point.

User Info: MrStarkiller

MrStarkiller
4 years ago#25
>channeling honey badger
At least, for t1 and PS.

>blades only
>all the time
"How boring." - Vergil

NOTE: Especially lame for GoW1 (where it is the most OP option *even more so in CotG*).

>strangely absent
As I've been in some other communities (including TUGOWU). These things happen. I've got a lot to catch up on with him. It will take a great deal of time put aside.

>Nintendo's antics
"Foolishness, Dante. Foolishness." - Vergil

NOTE: DMC4:SE seems to have made him more OP (increasing the gap between him and Dante still further. Trish looks quite impressive. I'm unsure about Lady for high level play right now, but I'm hoping she shames Dante and (especially) Nero with respect to gun play.

>kind of the point
I'd sooner expect the point to be that you can freely deal DoT and ignite things with your body. Preferably having the damage be worth a damn with a build focused on it. Maybe have it be exploitable for setting off 'player damage' stuff (like Old Sun Ring *or Karmic Justice*). Allow for multi-buffs with it (for obviously good combos *strong heal over time types pair nicely*). Even with three chaps using Immolation at once and locking players in, they can basically laugh it off: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw2l2VZpWUM&t=2m24s

NOTE: No 'great' or 'chaos' version. Certainly no sorcery (magic) or hex (dark) take on it. Hell, no aura for poison/toxic either (not sure how 'bleed' could work). They just don't seem interested in exploring our options here. Not even with armor that does this stuff passively (poop armor building up our toxic and that of foes for being near *more for touching us or being touched while close*)...outside poison from Butterfly Set. That's a nice exception (more of that would be good). Smelter Armor could have done the fire and Aged Smelter Armor for the magic. Bringing back Kirk's would allow for physical (at least with evades).

User Info: Hotel_Security

Hotel_Security
4 years ago#26
>blades only
>all the time
"How boring." - Vergil


Well, yes, but challenge runs don't care about such concerns.

And, yes, I see the irony of Vergil commenting on something being boring.

>strangely absent
As I've been in some other communities (including TUGOWU). These things happen. I've got a lot to catch up on with him


Getting older, getting busier. Life is cruel.

NOTE: DMC4:SE seems to have made him more OP (increasing the gap between him and Dante still further. Trish looks quite impressive.

I never really got to try anyone but the alternate chick in DMC2. Don't have much interest in those hacks.

I'd sooner expect the point to be that you can freely deal DoT and ignite things with your body.

Didn't realize that was an actual tactic. I'd also be in favor of an "a-hole" explosion where you can damage a dude on your death. But that's a lil unfair unless they let the murderer have time to get away.

User Info: MrStarkiller

MrStarkiller
4 years ago#27
>challenge runs
There isn't much of any challenge to be had from the better option (Ex: GoW1).

>see the irony
And he's still better than his competition from that universe. Take that as you like.

>life is cruel
One should hope death is kind.

>alternate chick
I forget her name. Trish was in that one too.

>hacks
Even while borrowing moves, if their variant is better, that's reason enough. A cute gimmick to spice it up further helps.

>actual tactic
DoT is all it is meant to be (through shields). Igniting is something it can do for oil areas, but probably nothing that you can light with a torch. We don't have oil urns in DaS2, so that sucks in general.

>damage on death
That's all Karmic Justice tended to be (unpatched Old Sun Ring was the nerfed version of that):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8HlFkLIbWo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OER9mjKnwmQ

Plenty of examples of it at work, but it was a rather troublesome miracle to get a feel for back in the day. Extremely hard to work with for many PvE situations (which was a large knock against it where I'm concerned).

User Info: Hotel_Security

Hotel_Security
4 years ago#28
>see the irony
And he's still better than his competition from that universe


I know. It's horrible. Part of the reason I wasn't that horrified by the "new" Dante in DmC was they couldn't do worse than the original. It's been rare when I played a game and didn't mind when I got killed because the character was such a douche.

>alternate chick
I forget her name.


Me too. A real winner, that gal.

Plenty of examples of it at work, but it was a rather troublesome miracle to get a feel for back in the day.

Wow, can't say I ever tried it given that my guy would usual die in less than five hits. I was more thinking of it triggering as an FU move on your death, but that works too.

User Info: MrStarkiller

MrStarkiller
4 years ago#29
>couldn't do worse
They managed it just the same. In gameplay and personality. Appearance-wise...I suppose that is debatable.

>real winner
I knew it not even a month ago. Oh, well.

>wow
If only it had returned. It was such a lovely thing. Velka was truly the best deity of DaS1.

User Info: Hotel_Security

Hotel_Security
4 years ago#30
In gameplay and personality.

I still can’t imagine any personality worse than original Dante.

Appearance-wise...I suppose that is debatable.

I’ll lean in favor of the original for this. The bowl cut with shaved sides was in style in maybe 1995 and it looked stupid to me even then.

Velka was truly the best deity of DaS1.

Second to the Sun, of course.
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