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  3. Attempting No Save run on MNM, need someone to brainstorm with

User Info: Raeng

Raeng
8 months ago#1
So basically, I'm attempting a run where I don't save during the chapters, only at their end. I'm allowed to use statues to heal. Only other handicap is that I attempt to play well, instead of just chaining 360OLUTs all day with the Lunar. I managed to snag Chapter 1 after a few attempts, but Chapter 2 is already proving quite painful. I haven't leveled the Lunar yet, only the DS. Furthest I've gotten is off-stream where I reached the fight just after Rasetsu and got clipped by an arrow that shot me into a way for bonus damage.

The fights that are really giving me trouble are the third one with the dogs, which I currently skip or cheese, the archers you need to dodge on the water and the room where you get the Talons. Now the archers I can usually get by using Ninpo, but it'd be easier if I could find a way to despawn them or get there without using Ninpo, are there any routes that allow this? The room with the Talons is also extremely hit and miss. GT'ing is hard there since they tend to go into swarm mode, there's not a lot of chokepoints to lure them in for easy delimbs. Either I win that one clean, or I get wrecked in seconds.

So yeah, any tips and takers? Just need someone to talk to haha.
http://www.stingermagazine.com - articles on the action genre's best.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC09UqeY80WzoWMnxRkL4Tkw - challenge runs.

User Info: gamingdutchman

gamingdutchman
8 months ago#2
Well, I'm very rusty but I think the parts are way easier if you stick to some pattern, at least for the dogs. The advice I'm giving you is from the top of my head, so not saying this is the best way.
Is your DS level 2 or 3? Because lvl 3 will give you the 360 UT which is very useful on this part.

For the dogs, presuming you have a DS lvl 2:

Never commit your combo's to much. XYX, bbb, OL Y (hold) and release (without ninpo) makes Ryu slash forward 'through' the enemy. That works pretty well OL. Then dash-jump shuriken repeat and when there's essence, do an ET/UT. You can sometimes commit and do something like XYXXXX, or a FS but the dogs tend to be unforgiving.
I also believe ->XX.... works to some extent (the rolling slash). Block/dash always everywhere.
DS lvl 3: 360UT, dash/jump. bbb, 360 UT etc.

Oh, and wall cancelling is a very important and useful shuriken ability, but sometimes it can throw you off if you don't expect to land on the ground but against the wall, so try to spam less and be conscious about when and where.

The archers are really not that hard once you find your rhythm. Start running on the water and stay as most right as possible. Then immediately when you're about to run past that wooden bridge pole that makes them able to target you, do a FS to the right and you'll land on the platform. Usually you can follow up with a GT. Once on the platform, the rest is easy. Stay mobile and use i-frame moves. Decide if you really need to heal, or save it for the LotTG bridge fight. (there's also blue essence in the target practice area)

For the FT room: Dash/jump (windrun) GT->OT, XXYbY, ET/UT and counterattacks are the way to go. Again the ->XX rolling attack can be great too, but it takes more practice. Try to maintain your overview and try to pay attention to when the shurikens in your body are about to explode. You can also mix things up here, i think that's your best bet, to not get predictable. FS, ID etc. If you do an ID, always be ready to insta counter OL or Block/Dash away. And try to single out the IS ninjas. But don't ID when everything is still alive and kicking.

If you find the moment you can do a wall attack spin into manual combo but i totally forgot the buttons for this. When done right, you'll probably delimb several enemies at once. It can be useful to 'save' a delimbed ninja to have an i-frame backup, but this is risky.

You should be able to upgrade your DS to lvl 3 before entering the FT fight(if you want that) DS 360 UT makes things slightly easier, IMO. But in general LS lvl 2 and FT lvl2 makes this level easier, however, if you're comfortable with the DS, go ahead. The essence you earn from the the lvl 2 LS 360 UT is very useful though.

IIRC, you can have a lvl 2 DS and LS before the FT fight with enough essence to also upgrade the FT to lvl 2 before the LottG fight and maybe even have a Lvl 3 DS and lvl 2 LS (or vice versa) before the FT fight.

Have fun :)
If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got.

User Info: Raeng

Raeng
8 months ago#3
Cheers for the message!

Most of the setups for the dogs I'm familiar with, just cannot get consistent results with it since - as you note - the second you commit you tend to be fried. The dogs really don't seem to play by any kind of rule, though I admit to also not having a lot of practice against them. I tend to skip fights with them or just cheese them since I hate fighting the dogs so much. Didn't think about using the ET from the DS. Does that one have i.frames?

> wall delimb move
That's X off the wall, fantastic move, can also end in that funky spin slash that cuts off nearly all the heads which is great.

> FT room
Got another attempt in but died due to greed and carelessness. Was stuck with some IS and decided to go for a wall-attack for i.frames, instead I was a tad too late and the IS exploded, sending me into the wall for bonus wall-collision damage. Dead haha. Think it is worth it to delimb them all and then take them out one by one by culling the spawns. I don't have enough Essence though. I enter the stage with 3000 essence only (had a bad chapter 1 Rasetsu run sadly), and by the time I reach the FT room I only have around 9000. I will do the trials-fight since I want to at least do some of the easiest tests of valor like the ones in Chapter 3 for instance that are just a guaranteed win.

> dutchman
You also from the Netherlands? :o
http://www.stingermagazine.com - articles on the action genre's best.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC09UqeY80WzoWMnxRkL4Tkw - challenge runs.

User Info: gamingdutchman

gamingdutchman
8 months ago#4
Yes, I happen to be. ;) And yes, that's the wall move. Timing is key and using it in that indoor space is very risky. One of the more important things is to avoid the walls if you're not doing a GT, OT. The splash damage from the IS is no joke and worst case, it will juggle you in several of them, meaning probable death. Also, delimbing all of them first, can be a good idea, but you need to be methodical in approaching them and not get instakilled by their kamikaze moves. Try to outsmart the AI.

I believe you can charge an ET or even UT when you enter that room to start the fight. I like to use FS, GT, Windpath and XY, bbb, OL Y or OL XY.... etc. here. YYY also can work wonders.

For me, the best strat with the dogs is actually go with the flow (still don't do every move), but mix it up in a way the AI can't predict your moves. Do some things you wouldn't normally do, like an extra dash or a move you never use etc. Use the terrain to your advantage and if you can commit a combo (safely) , then do it and try to finish a dog off.

The ET also has iframes, yes. And against the dogs, every second you get to reassess the battlefield is very welcome. But I also mean the Haze straight slash...? (I think it's named like that) Try something like: XYX, OL Y(hold) (release) when there's no essence. Or just dash/jump OL Y (hold) (release). Also, FS once, in multiple directions, can be useful. Sometimes you catch a break when 2 or 3 dogs are in their combo delay animation. Make sure to keep rotating the cam.

Lastly, try to UT as much enemies for essence. I'm not sure because I haven't played in a while, but I think you should be able to earn 7k essence before the FT fight.

At the start of the Chapter, you can kill one and ET the second for instance. The best way is to kill 2 and hold block to stop the essence from being absorbed automatically, then spawn the next few enemies and UT. When you get to the mages, trigger them and backtrack to the plateau down of the first set of stairs, behind the corner and charge an UT. It is important to collect all the yellow essence from the UT and use all the small ones for UT's.

The start of Ch. 2, without skipping any fights, is one of the hardest parts in the game. But once you master this section, it will make the rest of the game a lot more doable, in my experience.

Since you are doing a no save run, choosing the order in which you do the FT fight, the LotTG fight and the RoT fight can be important, personally I would go for FT->RoT->LotTG, upgrade wise. Or maybe you just wish to skip the LotTG. If you manage to do all CH2 fights legit no save, then glory and satisfaction await you ;)
If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got.

User Info: Raeng

Raeng
8 months ago#5
Altijd leuk om met een mede Nederlander over Ninja Gaiden te praten haha!

I'll keep the rest in English though, maybe someone wants to read this discussion in the future or whatnot.

> delimbing
Yeah the risk-reward factor is pretty high there. I kind of like that though, staying away from the walls is a good point. I do have a question regarding the wall-move. Sometimes it leads to the spin, other times it immediately cancels to Ryu doing a regular combo on the ground. What triggers this, do you know?

> start of chapter 2 is hardest
Fully agreed, it's the part that always gives me the most difficulty. I don't think I will do the LotTG fight as I can just buy them later-on, since most of my essence will only go to essential weapons. I'll leave a full clear of the chapter single segment to my future self or another player haha!

The chapter I'm dreading the most though is Chapter 3. While I will have better gear at that point, that chapter has always been my bane thanks to Gigadeath and some of the earlier archers.
http://www.stingermagazine.com - articles on the action genre's best.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC09UqeY80WzoWMnxRkL4Tkw - challenge runs.

User Info: gamingdutchman

gamingdutchman
8 months ago#6
Gigadeath can be a pain sometimes, but you will be able to try again and it is still a no save run I think.

At the start of Ch3, you can lure several of them down the stairs. Then zig/zag dash and approach into FS. There seems to be a difference in enemy behaviour on and off screen, so make sure you are already doing your evasive patterns from the moment you can and are turning the cam. Well, not sure if I can explain well enough what I mean lol.
If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got.

User Info: Raeng

Raeng
8 months ago#7
gamingdutchman posted...
Gigadeath can be a pain sometimes, but you will be able to try again and it is still a no save run I think.
Yeah I don't count that though, I really want to do the entire chapter in a single 'go' as it were, so checkpoints don't count either. It was really tempting for Rasetsu though haha.
http://www.stingermagazine.com - articles on the action genre's best.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC09UqeY80WzoWMnxRkL4Tkw - challenge runs.

User Info: Massaca

Massaca
8 months ago#8
Problem with Giga is that whilst he should be a fair fight, sometimes he just screws you over and there's nothing you can do about it unless you're constantly watching for the little ones with the Lunar/DCTF out and keeping distance. Even then, his grab is pretty dodgy too and from memory it's good to be hugging the wall away from him so his projectile barrage is easier to get out of range of.

Normally I'd say it's not that bad but no checkpoints... that's another story. Could be a while chapter just to reach him and die quick to something stupid. Not that that can't happen everywhere in NG2 lol, but Giga moreso.
"Kyuappa RaPaPa" to mahou no kotoba de hachamecha daikonran!
Zukizuki tokimeki ukiuki sukizuki gekiteki daikoufun!

User Info: gamingdutchman

gamingdutchman
8 months ago#9
How's is your run going?
If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you've always gotten

User Info: kumarab

kumarab
8 months ago#10
Sounds like fun.

Dogs> Since you mention the Lunar is not upgraded, your best bet will be XYXBOL-repeat chain. Another variation would be XYXBOL360Y repeat chain. Even with lvl2 DS the OL360Y (what lvl is it anyway?) works pretty well. Mix a few FS into the chain now and then. OR, just camp in the little space behind Muramasa and keep doing XYXBOLY...reposition if necessary.

FT Room> This is an i-frame check. GT, OT, Windpath, timed windrun into fs, XX counter, timed dash, >X to OT etc.

Let us know how it's going. Good luck!
Ninja Gaiden/Soulsborne
https://www.youtube.com/user/kumarab123/featured
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