Volume 2 of Everything a new game should have

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User Info: lonewolf1264

7 months ago#21
@ revengine I think of the game we are talking about as our own creation. We're using the ES games as a sort of template. No I don't think either that bethesda will get off it's ass and develope a stellar game, that is in every way flawless.
Honestly I think radial and I both see the game as an ever evolving game. New add ons keep the game growing and changing either by choice or based on how your character is being played. We see this or at least I do as something that we could pass on to the next gen of gamers. And yes see our characters age and pass on at some point some point of who they are to offspring or a next gen of game characters.
Imagine if you will being able to play emperor uriel from basically cradle to grave. Or follow the blades or any guild line as it evolved over time. Or just some average joe or jane that decides to embark on a journey. Maybe you want to see the world or found a farm that will in time. become a great city.
I see quests as both a general anybody can do whatever and specific quests that only become available according to how you are playing your character. Say for example you complete any of the normal questlines and become head of a guild or the saviour of the realm by helping defeat some great villian. What then? I envision new quests to make your guild stonger. Maybe YOU travel the land looking for new members. Send envoys to far off lands to teach your skills and learn new ones.
Does that help you any with we are going with this concept? We are going just about anywhere. New races bringing back old ones like dwarves. Or maybe expanding what race you can play. Why not be an ogre or goblin or troll? And go anywhere else you can think of. Spells weapons quest ideas. It's all fair game and is something to talk about to pass the time.
No matter where you go there you are

User Info: lonewolf1264

7 months ago#22
healing using the various temple healers as just another choice. You could still craft your own stuff if you like. Or hmm how's this, you can't craft many potions or poisons until you either find a recipe or have say an alchemist teach you. You purchase alchemy knowledge like spells. There could be some unique quests there. And why not take that further and be able to craft your own wines, beers, cryodilic brandy or skooma? And tweek them to suit your needs.
As for personal things and how they might be lost, lol a thief stealing them comes to mind. Or maybe they became so badly damaged that they were unusable and you made others? I like the whole crafting from scratch idea alot. Maybe have some legendary crafts folk that create one of a kind items that look like no other. With broken stuff your offspring might decide for whatever reason to reforge it.
Hats.. any kind cowboy some big ones think the pope or dr seuss.Any bloody kind you wish to imagine! And why not scarves face wraps masks ect ect? Any darn thing to make the game more unique. Lol why not even say undies? Instead of just being stuck with the default, why not be able to other stuff? Long johns for the cold north? A bright polka dot bikini to swim in?
Natural disasters yes, we could have snowstorms in the north. Hurricanes near the seas. Torrential rains or droughts. Yah why not have our sewers get blocked up? And bridges collapse rocks, trees ect block roads.
Sure bathrooms, sinks real stoves, sewers ect. Hmm the ability to dim or brighten our houses and in general everywhere? There are several lighted lamos on piers that have no use, so why not maybe light a road? Or the roadsigns? I'm for anything that adds flavor n gives us some more immersion.
You could create some new spells to aid farmers. Dowsing for water sources, earth moving to dig a well or root cellar. How about tree felling to create your homestead. A rain spell to water your crops or a shield spell to prevent them from harm?
For cities even villages or inns, they could ask you to provide certain foods. Maybe go find some really unique things be that animals spices herbs ect? I mean we should have lots more choices. This could lead to lots of mini quests. I see this kind of thing replacing standard trainers. Somebody says hey the inn of bad gas needs some cabbages n beans. In exchange for x amount the owner will help you improve 1 or more skills.
Hmm again making your stuff disappear upon your death. Grave robbers comes to mind. Or even if you had great renown some king prince maybe even a daedric one wants to own your things. Maybe some guild thinks they were to powerful and wants tgem hidden away?
I'm open to going anywhere upon dying. Reincarnated as yourself maybe with some abilites lost. Or go the whole new everything route. Maybe you could forget who you were and have to relearn things.
If we follow the basic age in ES, you've got some races living a long time so plenty of time to aquire things loss them start new trends maybe even a new lifestyle? Decide to give up warmongering and start a yoga/meditation retreat.
Did I miss anything?
No matter where you go there you are

User Info: radial200

7 months ago#23
O.k., so revengine, this thread is not bound by technological or financial limitations or practicalities. Nor is it bound by genres. It is our ideas on what would make a "perfect" game. The only game that you'll ever need. Due to it's ability to serve all of your gaming needs, all in one game. Additionally, this is Volume 2. The original thread was The new......that you absolutely must freaking have. Or something like that. Read that, digest what I've just said & then come back here & post your own thoughts on how to make the "perfect" game. P.S., this topic is just for fun & you can let your imagination run wild here. So please do so. Pretty please. ... with sugar on top. We need you man. We need new ideas & posters to this thread. :)

O.k., back to the wars. Speaking of, I want epic wars. Realistic classic period through medieval period style wars. Massive armies with cavalry, Archers, infantry, ect. Obviously, being a fantasy world, this leaves some areas of discussion. How would mages & magic factor into it? Also, what are thier limitations? I guess there's lore in TES that you could look up in order to determine that, but without doing so, I'll say this. For me, I think that they should be like archers with AOE arrows. In that, I mean that they can't just call down the wrath of the gods & destroy whole armies, because that doesn't seem like fun to me. They shouldn't be able to make the enemy armies vanish either. That kind of "god-like" power would ruin the experience, in my mind. So, I'd say keep them powerful, but not too powerful. So, as they fire from range, like archers, they can damage or otherwise affect several enemies, in a small-ish area, all at once, but destroying armies... no.

Anyway, these wars could have so many quests related to them that it makes my head spin, just to think about. First, what's your role? Are you just a grunt with no say in the tactics used? Are you an officer in the army? A conscript from an allied nation? Are you a General? A king? An Emperor? Maybe a member of an elite unit? The ancient equivalent to a spec ops team? A spy?

See. Depending on your position in all of this, the possible quests involved could be massive. You could have quests to aquire aid. Not unlike Aragorn does in Return of the King. (LOTR series). Or maybe you're a normal emissary & have to sail to another province for aid. Maybe it's the typical TES dungeon crawl. Where you & your's need to aquire X to accomplish A. Located in dungeon Y. Or strewn throughout several dungeons/caves/ruins. Maybe your a thief & you're hired to steal the enemies "MacGuffin" or all hope is lost. Or your an assassin tasked with taking out key targets. Or a spy, trying to discover the enemies battle plans. Maybe you're an officer charged with holding a certain location or your unit leads the charge. Maybe you're a General, a King or an Emperor & you get to decide the battle plans. If that's the case, then you should be able to interact with the world in a realistic way. Say for example you wanted to set up traps. Or to hide a significant number of your forces from the enemy, by using the environment to do so. Things like that.

Anyway, at some point, you get to play out this massive battle & participate in it. Oooooh, I forgot. Champion Warefare. Maybe like Achillies in Troy, you can fight a single powerful enemy, in a duel & stop the actual battle from taking place. By winning. Ie you are the world's greatest warrior. Mmm power fantasy. :) Oooh maybe one of the two leaders of the armies decides to be dishonorable & charges forward to battle anyway. See, the plot thickens. As you can see, I'm passionate about this stuff. So give me your best ideas here.

User Info: lonewolf1264

7 months ago#24
Should I wait to post jarl radial? Lol you need any inspiration in any direction for your leaders or battles or morals ect ect. Look no further than the sengoku period also often called the warring states period in japan.
You had officers of such moral fiber, that they would kill themselves if they believed their honor was lost. Others planed schemed and did extremely dishonorable things.
Others did what they did for religious beliefs. You had battles sometimes involving 100k+ between both sides in troops. Battles where 10s of thousands died in a single day.
Now for our game, why not. Volley fire could and did kill hundreds per volley. Volley fire be it bows or firearms or whatever, is the act of trying to put the maximum arrows crossbow bolts spears javalins rocks ect ect into the smallest area to produce the most casualties. No precise aiming was done. This in general should be fairly easy to reproduce. And no reason spells can't be factored in.
But that starts another can of worms. How powerful can or should our spellcasters be? Should they be able to cause earthquakes hurricanes? Be able to end life in an instant? Or revive the dead? Make necromancy a real art usable in day to day matters? Forgetting soul stones, do we want someone with the power to create a real zombie army? Hmm that might be fun. Or an army of summoned deadra?
This concept could add a ton of depth to our game, but serious complications as well. I think alot would be neat magic users on ships dueling it out? Or some sort of aerial combat?
As for who you could play, give lots of options. Sure king, emperor, a general or start at the bottom as a peasant or foot soldier and rise through the ranks. You can rise to fame or fall from it depending on your choices and your luck. No reason to eliminate anything from the possible quests. You might be asked to spy on the enemy or steal their mojo. Or as an assassin kill someone? Show mercy and send a healer to heal an enemy leader? There are historical instances of all that.
My only worry with this line of thought is we go beyond the single player game and morph into the multiplayer realm or the morporg or however they pronounce the mega player online games. Or that we move from a hack n slash rpg game to a more strategy style game. I'm not totally against that, but it really involves a different mind set, and honestly I think a different kind of player.
But as this is a wide open go where you like topic/thread, if you want run with it and maybe we can flesh this out more.
No matter where you go there you are

User Info: radial200

7 months ago#25
No genre change is needed. Nor am I suggesting one. Although for a bit of spice, I'm open to a bit of blurring the lines for certain mechanics. Or very specific things, but again that's not what I'm suggesting.

Previous games in the genre have done some of what we've been talking about before. DA:O had an epic battle in the end-game sequence. RPG gamers have been clammering for branching quest paths for... well forever. So, the idea of using your stats, character level, previous choices combined with a new series of choices to determine your possible quest branches, while complex in the real-world of gaming, should be easy peasy in our game. Very RPG like. In fact much more so, since it is able to act much more like an old school pen & paper RPG, like D&D. In that the DM presents a scenario, location & obstacles/enemies to overcome. Your stats help to determine the outcome. Or in this case, your possible quest branches. If you're a nobody, then you could just be one of the farmers that helps feed the army. Or one of the blacksmiths, that help equip them or shoe their horses. If you're a wordsmith & a slightly higher level, then maybe you're an emissary or politician. Still higher in levels & appropriate skill sets could mean you do the assassin, spy, thief thing. Or some type of actual soldier, mage, ect. Still higher level, skills, fame/infamy levels & you could plan out your intended battle plans.

The actual battles would play out in real-time. Based on your available quest branches, that determines what, if any, role you'll play in it. You could be in the thick of things. You could be watching from a vantage point & issuing new orders to your officers, based on the events taking place on the battlefield below. Or maybe you aren't even there. Instead you're busy at your farm or forge.

Mages are a tuff call. Personally, I don't want to restrict them too much. Still, I feel that they should not be an ista-win either. I'd like to see more spells added to our game. Dragon Age: Origins had some good ones. Some of which you just mentioned. Mages in TES lore sound more powerful in stories than how they are in-game. In-game they can't reanimate whole armies. Thier AOEs only effect relatively small areas & their damage per second in a 1v1 isn't massive. Depending on difficulty settings. So, having them be slightly more effective vs a few grouped targets, compared to an archer, seens o.k. to me. Archer vs single enemy, archer trumps mage, but vs multiple enemies, mage trumps archer. Maybe a balanced way to go.

Anyway, magicka is a limited resource. Battles can be prolonged affairs at times. If that means that mages conserve it a bit, at least until the final push & that helps balance them too, then fine. Also, the enemy will likely have mages of their own. Which indicates an attack/ defend rhythm. Also, the schools of magic would actually serve very specific & useful needs for the army. Which could split the mages into units. Destruction mages near the front. Resto mages near the rear, healing the wounded. If the player is a mage in the army, then your quest could be to heal X amount of soldiers. Or kill X amount of soldiers. That kind of thing. Just as one possibility.

User Info: lonewolf1264

7 months ago#26
get back with comments. Lost train of thought seeing he who should not be allowed to post, started another moronic thread. Jeez the shear stupidity just gets me fuming!
No matter where you go there you are

User Info: lonewolf1264

7 months ago#27
ok again feel free to go where you like. I'm up for trying almost anything. We could always mentally edit out something, if we feel the need.
Now some battles are definitely possible. The game has bandits going up against marrauders, in fort nikel and rockmilk cave. I'm guessing there are others. So battles involving a dz or so on each side yah, we could do that. That makes me really say a multiplayer option is needed. You could still play single like a ES game. But imagine you n a friend pick opposite sides of the map, each striving to make their area the most productive. Maybe work together for a few years, but eventually you will have to duke it out. Or play you against the game AI.
This is how the ps2 nobunagas ambition games worked. You tried to outbuild outthink outfight the AI. You built up your own troops food supply commerce facilities for money. Built up your culture by building temples shrines ect. And made your castle big building up your forgien rating. Easier seen than explained. But the goal is to create well built and ballenced fiefs, that have enough gold food troops horses guns ect to fight off those who would attack you.
Now I have no problems with powerful mages. Or any type of character. There are some damn powerful combos in ES games of skill+great weapon+ poison. There are some damn potent spells too, just not withen the normal game. So lets let them evolve into monsters. Lets have a mass confusion spell or invisibility or a blinding spell. Why not a command creature spell that can control dzs? Maybe to balance it out give bows better range? Slow the wizards a bit by having a spell recharge time?
As for your choices determing at least some of the quests you get sure, makes sense. Maybe extend that to depending on your choices various npcs may come looking to join your cause. Lol maybe even a complete opposite or 2. A cleric/priest ect trying to get you to give up being wicked. Or a thief that isn't a good thief, that always has someone banging on your door complaining that beavis butthead was seen trying to steal somebodies prized china.
Some more purpose in spell classes or any class for that matter YES. Give people a reason to specialize more. Just like have some bowmen specialize in mounted attacks. Some melee fighters as well. Develope attacks and defenses using small and big weapons. Lots of places we could go with that.
Your idea of the player being part of a bigger army, that must accomplish certain tasks sure. We'd need to flesh that out some more. I have some morbid thoughts gpong down this road lol. I'll save them for the next post
No matter where you go there you are

User Info: radial200

7 months ago#28
Hmm. Well, I think that to further your "we need more skills" idea, adding actual warfare based skills would go a long way towards that. Learning how to create & maintain a proper phalanx. Mounted combat in all of it's forms, as you mentioned. Including magic. A mounted corps of Battle-Mages would be a terror on the battlefield. Ooh, add more weapons in there too. Spears, pikes, halberds & the like. Throwing knives, poison darts, ect. Of course heavy weapons too, like ballistas, Trebuches, catapolts. For the occasional siege. Ooh, castle/fortress defense too. Not sure how to break that down by skill, but it's an idea.

I'm fine with a multi-player component, but the game in my head doesn't require it. I see it as perfectly doable, within the confines of an RPG. Again, Dragon Age: Origins had two big battles. One at the beginning, which played out from a distance, while you headed off to do something important. The second was at the end. That one was artificially made smaller by taking place in the various sections of a city, but you did get to participate directly in it. Now, within the ES series, those games are a bit different. DA:O was a turn based game. TES isn't, but with some top notch A.I. (remember, money, time & technology aren't limitations here) I see no reason that the kinks couldn't be worked out. However, if a multi-player works better for you in this battle idea, then so be it.

Back to the mages. Increasing their AOE range would be nice. A bit more bite on their dmg output. More of a focus on magical defenses is needed too. Skyrim added some stuff, but maybe a dedicated school or two? As far as specific spells, we can add some. The only elemental damage types that I can think of at the moment is earth & wind. We already have fire, frost & shock. So, yeah. Uh, spirit damage? Of course necromancy, but I'll leave that to you. I know you have a thing with that. So swing away.

Yeah, I like the idea of former quest givers helping you out. Since you did, whatever you did, for them. Maybe even have a nemesis or several that you've wronged join the other side. Ooh how about starting a rebellion? Then the legion has to fight you & yours.

IDK man, I'm just spit-balling here. Seeing what sticks. I don't think that we're too far off from on another overall. So, if the details don't appeal to you, drop 'em. I ain't married to any of it. So, take what you like & forget the rest.

User Info: lonewolf1264

7 months ago#29
me necromancy? I am offended sir, I merely havest souls occasionally resurrect, and sometimes hit the dead with spells that make them flop around. But only when I'm seriously bored. What is the fine for necromacy/philea? No it isn't my first time but I've been arrested and charged with it.
That makes me think of crime n punishment which we should probably touch on at some point.
Now the nobunagas games were turn based, but I see no reason they couldn't excist in our game. Think of a sort of learning growing game AI. Much better than this lame ES stuff better cut down on the ale or damn rats dialog.This could improve gameplay in so many areas. Make us as players improve our skillsets mindset and evolve as the game and the game AI. Imagine if the game knew your prefered attacks were fire based, and all the foes had fire resistance spells or armor or some such. Or if enemies had evasion ability or used invisability/chamelon like players do?
Weapons stuff all you said is mine the facets we can present players, the more interesting I think the game will be.
Building construction skills, we could go anywhere with that. From simple you learn as you do, to we must learn by finding some learned being(read trainer) to teach us.
Spells hell yah lets go there. Come up with butt loads of new stuff. Confuse sleep blinding spells. Sure why not wind more water. Spirit stuff why not? take things like rally or demoralize make them better area effects, maybe give rallied things an aura? Maybe again broaden things and have holy? This would be great for a religious type.
Give the knights of the nine questline a twist. Hell give tons of quests a twist. Imagine if you will being given not only a quest, but the option to do that quest in either a evil or good way? Make more connections with the generational thing. Why did the jermane really steal the honor blade of chorrol? Much more background depth. Imagine the bravil mage guild quest, if varon vamori convinces his love for ardaline. And he requests you help to convince her. Or if j'skar in bruma convinced you not to rat him out?
Rebellions yours the guards maybe the temple priests? A war between our gods and some ancient daedric types? For that matter why not have multiple chapters of the guilds and maybe have them warring against each other. Or with arenas in each city, you could go as the champion of one city and challenge the other cjampions. How bout time limits on excepting and do some quests maybe all of them?
Anyhoo enough for now I'm beat n gotta be back at work in just under 10 hours. Ohh yaa keep it going.
No matter where you go there you are

User Info: radial200

7 months ago#30
Crime & punishment. Well, I think that flagging rare, unique & exspensive items is o.k., but everything else is silly. No way every guard everywhere can tell that that one particular repair hammer, in your stack of repair hammers was stolen. Assualts. I'd be nice if the game had a cusion for accidental strikes/spell effects, but IDK how to fix that. Anyway, anything illegal that you do while hidden via stealth, invisibility/chameleon, shouldn't count against or be attributed to your character. However, the guards will know that a crime occurred & will look for clues. So, with our improved A.I., they should be able to investigate & interrogate. So, if you're spotted in the area, before or after the crime, then you become a potential witness or perpetrator. So,they'd question you & other NPCs in the area. Maybe even frisk you. IDK, could be a pain if it worked like that, but iit's an idea. Anyway, post arrest, in Skyrim there was cut content. Where instead of going to jail, you were sent to an areana to fight. Since it was cut, I'm not sure how it all was supposed to work. X amount of fights for smaller crimes. More for more serious ones, maybe? So, something like that. Also, there could be a few quest-ish things in there too. Say a corrupt official sells you into slavery or puts you in the same cell as an enemy faction. Things like that. Maybe having connections in the underworld of crime helps you out in these situations. Or allows you to avoid them. I get confused from game to game, as to what is in one & not in others & what's in all of 'em. Anyway, just some thoughts to get the conversation going on crime & punishment.

I like the idea of a learning A.I., but to be fair, there should be a limit. Just because otherwise, it'd learn everything & the game would become too difficult. Funny coming from me, I know, but I like difficult. Not impossible. So as long as we could find a balance there, then yeah. Sounds good.

Let's see, new spells. Well, Earth could have dust storms, sand storms, earthquakes, land slides, maybe nearby stones & boulders could be thrown. Could have master level spells that combine with other elements too. So you could have lava & molten stone attacks. Maybe hell fire & brimestone from the sky?

Water, now I know frost is just frozen water attacks, but liquid water or, pulling from the master level spell idea, steam could be interesting too. So, a steam attack. Flash flood, tsunamis, water walls. Ooh, how about a combo with frozen. Say a spiked frost wall in front of you & then you summon a water wall headed towards you. So that the enemy in between gets hurled by the water wall on to the spikes of the frost wall. Maybe a mist spell that messes with the enemie's sight. So they have a tuff time finding you. Of course combined with lightning & wind, you could do storms. Even hurricanes.

Wind could be sort of like the unrelenting force shout from Skyrim. So you could fus roh dah those baddies off cliffs & towers. Whirl winds, tornadoes, maybe a downward wind attack that pins the enemy to the ground. Or shoots them up into the air. So when they come back down they take falling damage. Again, combos with other elements too.

Spirit attacks are a tuff one for me. So jump in here. However, a general spirit attack with a damage attached. Holy Water attacks. Obviously, undead & similar creatures & beings would be weaker to spirit damage. Maybe combineit or even replace some of the illusion spells with it. Say, after a while of taking spirit damage, an enemy loses it's will to fight. IDK, like I said this ones a tuff one for me.

Warring factions & subsets of factions would be cool too. Especially if their reasoning is valid & it makes the moral grey area nice & murky. So that there really isn't a right or wrong for the player. So, whom do you side with? Do you side with any of them? Do you try to negotiate a peace. So that the faction becomez whole again? Yeah, cool.
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