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User Info: Richter13

7 years ago#1
Which of these Civs should have been ranked higher? - Results (229 votes)
20.52% (47 votes)
6.11% (14 votes)
17.47% (40 votes)
6.11% (14 votes)
2.18% (5 votes)
2.18% (5 votes)
14.41% (33 votes)
13.1% (30 votes)
17.9% (41 votes)
This poll is now closed.
The list is finalized, although you may still comment.


Please keep in mind that this is partly due from personal experience after playing as all Civs multiple times; and also from guides and other player comments.
I do take more note of what I've experience in-game, given that what worked for me may not have worked for others, then again there's the actual experience of it to make a judgment on.

We're assuming the following settings:
= Continents/Terra/Earth
= Large/Huge
= Standard speed (since Epic seems like Marathon now)
= Difficulty ranges from King to Immortal (Prince is too easy, Deity makes you throw away the handbook)
= 8 to 10 other Civ AIs
= 20 to 25 City States
= Start Bias / Ruins Enabled
= Ancient Era Start
* This is mostly to balance out Civ strengths and weaknesses, for example England will always be ranked #1 on water maps, with Mongols trailing far behind. I believe that the map settings are good for most Civs to attain success in*
* There's also the matter of time constraints, as making different lists for different map conditions would be confusing and time consuming for me.

<<TIER SS>> the godly tier = you'll have success on different victory types or just one but extremely good at it, highly adaptable, good synergy
<<TIER S>> epic tier = mostly successful games, although not on par with the SS tier
<<TIER A>> great Civs = again, success, great games, good synergies, but the top two tiers are more effective
<<TIER B>> good Civs = notable, but others can do it better
<<TIER C>> average Civs = pretty much OK, nothing outstanding
<<TIER D>> the Dice tier = dependent on luck, as strong as SS/S Civs when lucky; extremely underpowered when unlucky
<<TIER F>> the Fail tier = 'MURICA tier

**Civ numbering is merely for reference (so I don't get confused with how many I've already listed). If they are part of a tier, it's assumed they're equal to others in that tier.**


User Info: Richter13

7 years ago#2

= After years of being conquered, subjugated and ridiculed, Firaxis decided that the best way to reward Poland for simply surviving is to make it one of the strongest Civs, suited for ANY victory type.
= The fact that the Solidarity UA can let you fill up policy trees so fast means you can easily adapt to how the game flows. It is one, perhaps the only Civ, that can effectively use both Tradition and Liberty (stability and expansion). The Hussar UU is pretty good, surround, flank, destroy. The Ducal Stables UB is dependent on the number of pastures you can have, if you only have one in the city it has zero gold yield, but if you have more than one, then you'll earn a bit (+xp as well to mounted units).

= What was previously known to be one of the best Civs in older game versions, it's slightly revamped in BNW, even better, and still one of the top contenders.
= The new UA, Ships of the Desert, is magnificently redone since longer caravansary range means bigger rewards from faraway Civs/CS (unfortunately it doesn't work for naval trade routes, as far as I know; if it did, it would have been too overpowered); religious pressure means a strong faith-based game as well. The Camel Archer is still a pretty good replacement for the knight, being a ranged cavalry unit. Finally the Bazaar which not only adds several gold per meeting terrain/TR requirements, but also doubles luxuries worked by the city - in a game where gold is scarce, trading becomes key, and Arabia becomes king due to this.

= Nebby, as I call him, is often known as THE premiere Civ when going for Science victories, now in BNW, he's still at the top. Sure, Science is the only thing the Civ does well, with little flexibility, but, the Civ is so good with how it does it that it's hard not to consider it at the top.
= Once again with Babylon its UU/UB have little to no use, given that early warmongering will cripple most players, still both can be handy against barbarians or aggressive neighbors such as The Huns. Of course, Babylon shines when it comes to their UA, Ingenuity, assuming you can get buildings and wonders for great person generation, your cities will be spawning Great Scientists every few turns or so, faster than Albert Einstein in a cloning factory. There is really no contest when it comes to bulbing scientists and rushing techs for the Science Victory.

= The world's new superpower and general maker of everything in a supermarket is once again in the top tier, owing dominance to its superior uniques.
= The Chinese UA, Art of War, is still great for domination games, more Great Generals make campaigns relatively easier. The ChuKoNu UU has been considered one of the single greatest unique units in the game, double attacks, promotions carrying over. Lastly the Paper Maker UB, which skyrockets into one of the best unique buildings ever conceived - no maintenance, and earns 2 gold; you'll hardly find yourself having problems with the Chinese hegemony.

User Info: Richter13

7 years ago#3
= When G&K first came out, Austria was easily considered a top contender for the highest spots, given its powerful uniques. It's no surprise that the same still applies for BNW.
= Diplo Marriage UA is an alliance killer, especially come late game if someone attempts a Diplomatic Victory - simply buy the CS, it's yours, all the units, people and resources; imagine 8+ high end units instantly yours for a low price. The coffee house UB can be built anywhere, and combined with a garden, you can easily spam GP's to suit your victory plans. The hussar UU is the cavalry equivalent of Poland's winged hussar, which is from the pikeman-line, so it's still pretty good.

= To be honest I had a slight conflict which Civ to place in this spot. It was either Byzantium, Shoshone, or Songhai. I simply had to convince myself which games I won with sheer success, and how swiftly I attained those victories.
= Both UUs of Byzantium are decent, nothing fancy, although I personally enjoy using dromons. The UA however is brilliant even moreso in BNW wherein Piety is available at the start. You'll need to play a heavy faith-based WIDE game - getting Pagodas+Mosques+Cathedrals, then finishing the Piety tree to get Sacred Sites reformation belief. Once this is done, you will have the fastest cultural victories you've ever had.

<<TIER S>>

= As previously stated, it was either Askia or Theodora (or Pocatello), for the last spot at the top. While some people may dismiss the Songhai quickly, thinking what boring uniques it may have, in BNW, these qualities truly shine.
= The mandelaku is a decent unit without city attack penalty, coupled with half of Sonhai's UA (amphibious/war canoe), you'll have a good unit that can assault cities especially ones established on rivers. The mud pyramid mosque is amazing - a temple with no maintenance and also adds culture. The other half of Songhai's UA effect is triple gold from pillaging and clearing barbarian camps. Let's review the facts: gold is scarce in BNW + barbarians are plenty. Do the math and that means tons of gold early to mid game.

= My opinion of Shoshone tends to be slightly biased, if only because I've had the most success with them (100%) on most difficulties. They are however a powerhouse Civ if you play things right.
= For starters the UA lets you grab large amounts of land, improve the resources asap instead of waiting for border spread; your first few cities can close off your own part of the continent (denying open borders, trapping wandering AI units), and expand to those lands later on. The pathfinder can have varying degrees of success - I for one had no problems using them, getting a dozen ruins even on higher difficulties. These enable me to have absolute control of the game and plan ahead - how many Civs can let you say the same thing? The last unique, the comanche, is basically just a zerg/cheap unit.

= When it comes to literally swimming in gold, nobody does it better than Venice and Mr. Blind Doge. I would have placed Venice in the highest tier if it weren't for the unique gameplay as a One-City Challenge, which can be a problem if you're next door neighbors with warmongering Civs.
= The Venetian UA can net you 20 trade routes - TWENTY! - or 22 if for some reason you can make Petra (though that's doubtful). The AI will think less of going to war with you if it stands to lose a lot of revenue, so you're basically becoming rich, while having a deterrent from going to war. If it comes to war however, here comes our friend, Mr. Merchant of Venice, which can puppet any CS immediately (unblockable unless a city is surrounded by units), allowing you to buy units/buildings from it. The great galleass has limited use defending coastlines.

User Info: Richter13

7 years ago#4
= I re-evaluaed my games as England, comparing GNK and BNW, and I have to say they definitely deserve to be near the top due to a very cool 1/2 of their UA.
= First and foremost they are still the BEST Civ when it comes to naval dominance- period. Both UUs are strong in their own right - the longbowman on land, the SotL on water. While the Civ leans on domination, part of the UA is having an extra spy - and in BNW this means an extra diplomat - which can be used effectively in trading for votes in the World Congress. This brings them up a notch in my opinion, allowing more control of the delegates.

(11) CELTS
= Oh? Why are the Celts here, you may ask? Well - Byzantium of course.
= Celts are a Civ heavily focused on faith, so yes, the same strategy for Byzantium applies, although you can only take two faith buildings (and sacred sites reformation later on). Still, they are the best at quickly acquiring faith via their UA, and their pictish warrior UU (which gains faith after killing an enemy). Basically, it's a cultural win via faith mechanics, and they are nearly equal to BYZ in that regard. Another thing to note is their ceilidh hall UB, which gives massive bonuses for happiness and culture, compared to the building it replaces.

(12) EGYPT
= Egypt, the wonder-ho of every Civ 5 game. While the higher you get in difficulty, the fiercer the competition becomes for wonders, Egypt still has the capability to match its opponents.
= The UA as mentioned is straightforward - building wonders - and is fantastic. The burial tomb UB costs no maintenance, gives 2 faith, and 2 happiness - one of the best unique buildings in the game. The UU, war chariot, is great for the early game, especially going up against opponents surrounded by flat terrain.

<<TIER A>>

(13) ZULU
= Shaka shakes-and-bakes the competition, hilariously, with all the promotional bonuses, making such a minor Civ in the global stage suddenly become a military powerhouse in this game.
= Impi can attack at range before closing in for melee; Ikandas give unique promotions to melee units (pre-gunpowder ones); finally there's the lower maintenance for melee units, and quicker earning of promotions. People may wonder why they are ranked high despite bonuses applying for melee units only - "we all know ranged is king in Civ" - well it's because of the synergy - you're basically setting up to dominate, rolling in the promotions and bonuses, then punching everyone in the face once you've fielded a powerful army.

(14) INCA
= If I would compare my old G&K list to this one, Inca probably received the biggest jump. If before I did not consider them any stronger than their counterparts, they definitely get a boost now.
= That boost comes from the UA, particularly zero/half maintenance on terrain features - with gold being a problem early in the game, you can effectively nullify that with the UA. The slinger UU is a hit and run unit, can withdraw before melee, I don't consider it that special though. The terrace farm, coupled with some techs, greatly boosts growth in your cities, although it may be a problem as you'll lack production when building them instead of mines.

User Info: Richter13

7 years ago#5
= Son Goku is back - and the BNW mechanics suit him nicely enough. Polynesia's UA allows you to swim around oceans from the ancient era onwards . Want to settle on faraway wonders - go ahead! See those ancient ruins no one can get to yet - take it! Surrounded by hostile Civs - swim to a new continent! You're guaranteed to discover all Civs first, unless you're lazy - giving you two extra delegates on the world congress; coupled with Forbidden Palace and it's a terrific midgame for you via diplo mechanics.
= The maori warrior's promotion stays even after upgrades, if you economy can handle it, build several of them for upgrading later on. The moai isn't as useful as it once was (due to CV mechanics).

(16) KOREA
= The Civ that gave Babylon a run for its money when it came to Science victories. The reason I've ranked Korea in a lower tier now is due to the change in game mechanics, which obviously boosted a lot of other Civs (especially the new ones). They are still great for a science victory, although other Civs may get to different victory types before you do.
= Korea is also another turtle Civ like Ethiopia, with both unique units emphasizing defense - the turtle ship unable to explore oceans; the hwacha used to defend from attacking troops. So again, similar to the G&K tier list, it makes me scratch my head.

= Carthago, Rome's eternal enemy, made even more powerful by their UA - free harbors. It may not seem much to some people, but this is the "naval caravansary" - allowing you to extend your naval trade routes early on, with better yield compared to land based ones.
= The quinquireme is nothing special; the African forest elephant is something I do like, both for Great General spawning and the feared elephant promotion. Given that it comes early in the game, let's hope you can support it with your economy.

= Another one of the BNW Civs high on the list, and with good reason, as Assyria nullifies any penalty you may have for having several cities (captured or settled). The only reason they are lower is that early aggression is penalized due to lack of gold, and negative modifiers that can cripple your trade.
= The UA is great, especially in higher difficulties as you will be late in tech, it allows you to keep up with everyone else upon capturing a city from a CIv that is ahead of you. The royal library UB is decent, as long as you can fill the slot (for added unit XP). Finally the mother of all siege units, the tower of power, giving adjacent units a bonus when attacking the city itself. I consider this better than the battering ram of the huns, not for the comparison of attacking power, but because, once the tech-advanced Civ's city falls - Assyria gives you a free tech; Huns gives you... the power to raze faster?

= When I first made the G&K list, I didn't feel too convinced of the Iriquois capability, except that their AI was annoying with city spamming; nowadays I guess I've seen them in a better light.
= The UA is still similar, but, as mentioned often, low gold won't be a problem, as the tiles can be used to connect cities; improved movement is always a plus, whether defending or attacking. The longhouse UB is a production juggernaut.

= Persia, anyone who wishes to hear the *ding dong* Golden Age tune loves this Civ, and for good reason - the bonuses from the UA are really good for internal growth, and expansion. The satrap's court UB provides extra gold and happiness, although not the additional gold from trade routes (unlike the bank itself); while the immortal is an early unit with double healing rate, perfect for barb clearing and attacking other Civs - I only wonder if the bonus would stack along with Fountain of Youth as I've never encountered it when playing as Persia (perhaps not).

User Info: Richter13

7 years ago#6
= Cathy, ruthless, annoying expansionist, boosted in BNW due to the early discovery of Iron - with the UA doubling some strategic resources, this allows you, again provided economic support, of spamming units that require it quite early in the game. The krepost will basically cheapen up buying tiles ala American UA; the cossack is the unit to attack second (for the bonus), just ensure that another unit softens up the target first.

= Oh no! Greece! Our favorite! Why so low? Well technically it's still in Tier A - the tier for great Civs. And Greece remains the top Civ when it comes to straightforward Diplomatic Victories. But, I also have to consider how the mechanics work - you can get couped, you can miss doing a quest, or a richer Civ will just give gold. At the same time, you have Austria and Venice - two Civs who can easily take away all the effort you've put in City States in a snap of their fingers.

<< TIER B>>

= Rome is still a good Civ, remember, they do have one of the best UAs when it comes to building fully upgraded cities. The only sad part is I really don't find them to excel much in anything nowadays - it does tend to get a bit boring. In G&K, you could go for science or cultural equally - depending on which buildings you have in your capital and would build in auxilliary cities; with the change in mechanics, you're mostly down to science - unless you focus on GWAMs. Domination is still a good choice for them as well.

= On small maps or pangaea, nobody can stop the Mongol horde, as history has shown us. Keshiks coupled with Khans will overrun entire Civilizations, not just city states, although the UA bonus applies to attacking CS' only. Warmongering is heavily penalized. Still, for simply being nigh unstoppable at what they do, the Mongols deserve to be higher than other militarily oriented Civs.

= Pure blitzkrieg, as is during Bismarck's time and everyone's friend - Mr. Adolf. The UA lets you happily take those barbarians with an affinity for fascism into your armies; the landsknecthen is a zerg version of the pikeman, but then there's the ACHTUNG PANZER! which may let you sneak in a domination victory come the modern age (should other Civs be poised to win in other ways). Oh, and you pay a fraction of unit maintenance, you can start goosestepping away.

= People don't realize the value of the uniques of this Civ. On your first couple of cities, look at your luxury resources. Try and sell them for gold - and say goodbye to happiness from them for several turns - but not for the Dutch. Your strengths are through trading and making money with what you have; keeping your growth and happiness at a high level; at the same time making your rivals poorer works out in short/long term goals. The UU may go against the "peaceful trading" mentality, but it gets better upon upgrading once you feel the need to conquer someone getting too far ahead.

= Portugal is amazing, or iffy, depending on the resources surrounding you. Your UA is dependent on the variety of luxuries you have, giving you more gold. The nau caravel UU is actually decent, as you gain a small amount of XP, and much needed gold (only once though); the feitora is good use, available midgame, to be built on coastal CS tiles without improvements or luxuries. All in all, it's a pretty good exploration/commerce/patronage hybrid Civ.

User Info: Richter13

7 years ago#7
(28) INDIA
= Both the UU and UB are quite OK, but, in the G&K list I mentioned their UA is "nothing to write home about". Well guess what, now in BNW you can write home all you want - as the UA can be used to boost your city population through the roof, without incurring heavy penalties. You can use trade routes to feed new cities, keeping them few in number, but relatively 30+ in population. Best of all, you're less likely to be affected by ideological differences with another Civ as the happiness can be balanced out.

(29) SIAM
= Don't get me wrong, Siam is still good, and you'll have a smooth sailing peaceful game. Simply being friends with City States already gives you good bonuses with the UA; however as mentioned there are new Civs and improved ones from the changed mechanics, and I'd have to rank them higher. The UU and UB are, still, OK.

= Copied from the old G&K list:
A favorite aggressive/warmongering Civ for most players to fight against, yet I don't believe there are many who play it. You can try to focus a bit on the cultural aspect, and do surgical strikes on Civs that tend to sit their cities in jungles. Another guide states just teching up, then defensively decimating everyone, racking up to a cultural victory.
Personally, I'm not fancying the Aztecs for anything besides domination, which other Civs could do better, sorry Monty fans.

= Mayan ICS was one of the key ways to win with the Civ in the old days - now, with science penalties once you have lots of cities - the UB (pyramid) is simply at the "OK" mark. You're probably left going Wide at best, not ICS. The Long Count UA is should be timed properly, especially if you're planning to get GWAMs for theming bonuses. Finally, there's the Atlatist UU... which... is slightly more useful than a worker put on "sleep" mode.
What I'm trying to say is - they are a GOOD Civ, but I have played other Civs that are better.

= One of the best Civs in G&K, I considered it top tier, though nowadays I had to bump it down several notches.
= Ethiopia is a Civ suited for turtling, with its UU stationed at the capital; it's UA giving bonuses as long as you have fewer cities than a Civ you're facing off against. The stele UB was stellar in G&K - as you'll obviously stay Tall, happily sleeping in your few cities, until you gain a Cultural Victory. Mechanics in BNW changed, as a CV is no longer about how many policy tress you can fill, the stele however is great for getting the first pantheon/religion unless Celts are in the game.

User Info: Richter13

7 years ago#8
<<TIER C>>

= What makes Morocco a lower-class Civ is that they seem to be a "Poor Man's Arabia". Don't get me wrong, they can still make a lot of gold with their UA, just not as much as Arabia, obviously. The berber cavalry is also pretty good for defense, and offense - if you spot a Civ settling on deserts, like Arabia, haha. Finally there's the kasbah, which I thought was great on paper, but comes a bit late - although to be frank - coupled with Petra, this snowballs into an amazing Civ... just... not..as.. amazing..as... Arabia from the get-go.

= I was a fan of pre-BNW France, with its UA helping you go for the cultural win. Still, the new UA may pale in comparison due to the change in mechanics - given that it will only affect your capital city. So basically you can guarantee yourself a museum, obviously, but you will need to compete for all the wonders to maximize the benefit from the UA - it may be hard, or it may be easy - it's a toss up. The useful UU (foreign legion) became a tenet from the Freedom Ideology tree, leaving you with the Derpketeer; the Chateau has limited uses and comes a bit late (placement issues).

= The Vikings are a mixed-bag in that you've basically got the usefulness of their uniqueness down to a pat. The problem is, being a pure offensive-minded Civ, you have no other ways to augment the growth. While other warmongering Civs have capabilities (Songhai's mandelaku can swarm coastal/river cities without fail, and their mud pyramids give a lot of bonuses; China's chukonu rain death, while paper makers provide much help; Russia is geared for expansion), the Vikings are perhaps, as is in history, suited for shortsighted goals. Although, to be fair, their UU the berserker upgrades to its other UU, the Ski Infantry, which is a plus.

= Naval combat has had a huge overhaul with G&K. Ottomans used to be at the bottom of most players' minds, but the change is for the better. One trireme - park it next a few tiles from a coastal barbarian encampment - and you might get even ranged ships at your command - amazing once barbs tech up as well. At the end of the day, I still cannot find much to be overwhelmed when it comes to the Ottomans. It's quite sad really, as they were one of the most terrifying forces/conquerors of Constantinople/rulers of mediterranean trade... and yet we have... this.

= Don't bother going for any other victory type, you're simply out there to attack and keep attacking - and you'll do a great job of it - it's straightforward, no randomness - just keep attacking the enemy and that's it. It's lower because, obviously, diplo and trade penalties, and that other Civs tend to do better in domination - Mongolia, Zulu, Assyria, etc. I consider Japan a "beginner's Civ" for practicing the domination game. And finally, there's the Zero... which, like it's namesake, has zero use.
PS: For what it's worth, my only success as Japan on Immortal was not a domination victory, rather a diplomatic one (as odd as it sounds) - as I simply used my troops for defense, relying on Bushido UA to kick in and prevent myself being overwhelmed.

User Info: Richter13

7 years ago#9

= Mind you, Brazil is the BEST Civ to attain a purely cultural victory. Their UA screams "tourism yey!" constantly. The UU isn't really helpful, coming in too late. The UI though is extremely useful in the latter portions of the game.
= The reason it's in the "Dice Tier" is due to various what-ifs. Basically I summarized it as: "You know by Turn 20 if you'll win or not", (and in my case I had more of the "nots").
Your initial terrain - too many hills/low production, say goodbye to most wonders. If you can get Chichen Itza + Leaning Tower, you're set for the victory - but that's a big "if" as well. Exploration is screwed up due to the jungle bias, especially in the middle of an Amazon-like map section, you probably won't be meeting any CS or Civs soon. Lastly, like said, if your production/expansion is screwed in the early game - not only will you need to catch up - you'll also be in danger of getting conquered by any neighbors.

= Indonesia is considered an extremely powerful Civ - if you play it right, you can easily conquer Immortal, even Deity.
= I consider it "Dice Tier" as well, due to the randomness of such things. The UA needs you to settle on a different continent, and as mentioned we are playing on "Continents/Large or Huge" maps - meaning it could be 20-30 tiles away, or just next door, we'll never know (giving you a logistical nightmare). The UB is great as well - provided people are strongly pushing their religion and your cities are in the melting pot (middle) of continents, to gain maximum benefit. Lastly, the UU has amazing promotions - just random - and I, for one, get terribly annoyed whenever I have to reload when each of my Kris gets bad ones.

= What else can be said about Spain that hasn't been said before? They are one of the mightiest Civilizations in the game - if you find wonders early - whoops!
= "Dice Tier", they are comparable to the strongest Civs in the game, as long as they're lucky - lucky Spain and unlucky Spain are complete opposites - one giving you the easiest game you've had; the other the most boring and crappy. The UUs are, again, decent, though to maximize the use of the conquistador, you'd have to settle away from the continent, posing logistical problems, similar to the UA if you're NOT the first to discover wonders, or if they're miles away.

User Info: Richter13

7 years ago#10
<<TIER F>>

= As any Starcraft player would know - the Huns are this game's "Zerg" - and most Zerg will put the brunt of their entire war machine on the first rush. It's either a quick domination, or a disaster - either way either the Hun player or his opponent would quit. At the same time, if you're playing vs AI in higher difficulties, you'd be hard-pressed to break through due to their bonus units. As mentioned we're assuming the game is set to Continents/Large or Huge maps, and the Huns are at a disadvantage - not within their own corner of the planet, but for those further away, as they are oriented in domination (the first rush), and not much else.

= Oh I've heard success stories of people using Sweden, but I for one find them underwhelming. GP Generation with DOFs is boosted - yes especially in BNW - considering that the AI loves to be peaceful. Yes it does snowball, allowing for a huge chance for a cultural victory - but let's face it - in Emperor/Immortal/Deity - the AI already has a lot of bonuses - would you give them more? Let's not discount the fact that the AI can also be annoyed when you're friends with their enemies - chain DOFs can also mean chain Denouncements. The other half of the UA is gifting great people to City States, which induces a facepalm reaction. Lastly are both UUs which just scream "Hey we're Swedish, get us out of here!"

= 'MURICA!!!
= 'MURICA!!!
= 'MURICA!!!

.... I'm actually tempted to leave it at that, but oh well...
Ok here we go. UA is of minor use, as you still need to spend gold to buy tiles; +1 sight is an advantage, but other Civs are better at exploration+movement. Minuteman is a decent unit come midgame but not much else to say about it. B52 comes late - the game is already decided. Overall, it's not really good at anything. It's not a dominator, it's not a science wiz, it's not faith-heavy, it's not culturally superior, etc.
It's just... 'MURICA!!!
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