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  3. Are Ninjas in this game actually trash?

User Info: Raijinili

Raijinili
10 months ago#41
atmasabr posted...
If it weren't worth it, the topic poster wouldn't be complaining that NInja have HP problems, and I wouldn't be advocating it to a poster who complains that Ninja have HP problems after I've already done it. I think you should pay attention to the problems that the other posters are bringing to the board and be open to the possibility that there is more than one solution to them.

50 more HP won't save them.

OP complained that Ninjas have the same PA and worse weapons than Knights and Dragoons. It shows a misunderstanding of how Ninja damage is optimized. OP is probably not equipping +PA/SP gear, removing weapons, increasing (or choosing high) Brave, putting on a damage Support, and one-shotting enemies. The correct solution is to play them as Ninjas, not as Knights.

It's not a question of playstyle. The topic asks if Ninjas are trash. And we can't say that the hyperoffensive build doesn't fit OP's playstyle if OP hasn't tried the playstyle in the first place.

But regardless, the bonus HP is very minor for a major cost. 50 HP is not worth +2 SP and a Support Slot. I'm open to the possibility of other solutions, but this particular solution is bad even on paper.

User Info: pvrhye

pvrhye
10 months ago#42
Ninjas being weak is a weird opinion.

Natively they have one of the best supports in the game. They also have a C-EV of 30%, so throw the supports the class earns anyway on them and a mantle and watch them become a nightmare to hit. As for throwing items? Maces are cheap, as is obsolete gear. Frankly, an item has a lifespan of only a few battles anyway before obsolescence, so lugging it is practically as good as using it.

Then there's the ultimate defense. You use your superior mobility to pick off enemies on the peripherals before they even get to strike back.
PSN: Sojufueled
3DS: Sojufueled 0516 - 7458 - 8127

User Info: UchihaX66

UchihaX66
10 months ago#43
terran3999999 posted...
I think you guys are being trolled by UchihaX66. He seems more than eager to nitpick about minor issues to greatly downplay the usefulness of Ninja.

Geomancy is considered high, ranged damage? News to me.
Ironically Ninja makes better JUMPers than Dragoon.

And since when does Shirahadori not solve a majority of the attacks the enemies use? If defense is such an issue he can't just buff the team up with Protect/Shell?


What part of keeping this thread civil don't you understand?

How am i trolling?

Why do you always need to start a feud in every other thread? In every thread i've seen you usually have a habit to degenerate a thread by pointless name calling or blindly call everyone a troll. I bet you don't even know what that term actually means.

And as for geomancy, unlike throw it actually has much better utility (status effects) while other abilities like sword arts have good damage, problem with throw that it has neither utility or good damage and wastes resources. And as for shirahadori, it's useless against ranged attacks and many monster special attacks. And for the dragoon setup yes it remedies the survivability problem somewhat but its likely a poor dragoon imitation.

User Info: UchihaX66

UchihaX66
10 months ago#44
atmasabr posted...
It's not worth it. In general, HP is just about the worst usable stat to pay for.

If it weren't worth it, the topic poster wouldn't be complaining that NInja have HP problems, and I wouldn't be advocating it to a poster who complains that Ninja have HP problems after I've already done it. I think you should pay attention to the problems that the other posters are bringing to the board and be open to the possibility that there is more than one solution to them.


The reason i created this topic is because imo this job has survivability issues from personal experience. Another user said offense if the best defense which is good in theory but questionable in practice, that doesn't help when curtain classes need to be in melee but actually has much lower health then even the mages. All the offense in the world wont prevent a glass cannon from being ganged up and ninja has embarrassing low health which worsens the problem even more imo.

User Info: meanspirit90

meanspirit90
10 months ago#45
I never had any problem with that, on any map. The only attack that could damage my Ninja at all with max evasion is advanced monster attack and magic.
Thirst of knowledge is a dangerous thing. Just go back to your beer

User Info: Raijinili

Raijinili
10 months ago#46
UchihaX66 posted...
What part of keeping this thread civil don't you understand?

terran is our resident flamer. Nothing can be done about him. Mark, Ignore, and continue. He doesn't say much worth reading these days.

UchihaX66 posted...
And as for geomancy, unlike throw it actually has much better utility (status effects) while other abilities like sword arts have good damage, problem with throw that it has neither utility or good damage and wastes resources.

The damage of:
- Ninja, raised Ninja, throwing Morning Star (16 WP, 9k gil), with Thief's Cap (+2 SP).
- male Knight, raised Knight, with Runeblade (14 WP) and Bracer.
- same Knight, but with Attack Boost.
lv nin knt knt2
1 144 126 168
8 144 140 182
10 160 140 182
15 160 154 196
22 176 168 224
29 176 182 238
33 192 182 238
36 192 196 252
42 192 210 280
44 208 210 280
49 208 224 294
56 224 238 308
63 224 252 336
67 240 252 336
70 240 266 350
77 240 280 364
78 256 280 364
83 256 294 392
89 272 294 392
90 272 308 406
97 272 322 420


UchihaX66 posted...
And as for shirahadori, it's useless against ranged attacks and many monster special attacks.

Ah, that's where the confusion lies. It isn't. That's just the description. It works fine against ranged attacks (making Archer's Bane obsolete).

It works against all monster normal attacks, except maybe from trees. Being in melee is an advantage here, since monsters will always be able to hit you with their basic attack.

List from the BMG:
ATTACK
JUMP
THROW
CHARGE
BATTLE SKILL
Steal Helmet
Steal Armor
Steal Weapon
Steal Accessry
Steal Shield
Gil Taking
Choco Attack
Tackle
Goblin Punch
Eye Gouge
Scratch
Poison Nail
Blood Suck
Tentacle (squid)
Knife Hand
Sleep Touch
Grease Touch
Drain Touch
Zombie Touch
Snake Carrier
Wing Attack
Scratch Up
Beak
Beaking
Shine Lover
Straight Dash
Bite
Shake Off
Wave Around
Tentacle (morbol)
Goo
Stab Up
Sudden Cry
Dash (dragon)
Tail Swing
Triple Attack

UchihaX66 posted...
The reason i created this topic is because imo this job has survivability issues from personal experience. Another user said offense if the best defense which is good in theory but questionable in practice, that doesn't help when curtain classes need to be in melee but actually has much lower health then even the mages. All the offense in the world wont prevent a glass cannon from being ganged up and ninja has embarrassing low health which worsens the problem even more imo.

It's good in practice, as well. You asked if Ninjas are trash, and the experience of many knowledgeable players in the history of the FFT boards says that they are overpowered. The question is, why is your experience so different?

I think it's because of your build. What are your Ninja's Brave, gear, and Reaction/Support/Movement?

User Info: meanspirit90

meanspirit90
10 months ago#47
People thought it was a troll level topic since it was just a nice way to say "Ninja desvered a HP boost" which is the kind of topic that our resident troll keep making these days.
Thirst of knowledge is a dangerous thing. Just go back to your beer

User Info: Raijinili

Raijinili
10 months ago#48
That's a silly reason to think it's a troll topic.

People thought it was a troll topic because it compared Ninja, one of the best jobs, to Knight, one of the worst, and it gave the point to Knight.

But OP's reasoning is something that someone can come up with through normal gameplay, if one didn't learn the proper way to optimize gear and skills.

User Info: pvrhye

pvrhye
10 months ago#49
Waiting for the vicious takedown of Cid. Literally unplayable.
PSN: Sojufueled
3DS: Sojufueled 0516 - 7458 - 8127

User Info: UchihaX66

UchihaX66
10 months ago#50
@Raijinili

To be honest trash is too much a strong word come to think of it. The ninja job has its perks but at the same time has many faults. I'm well aware that its a hit and run assassin but imo beyond dual-wield it doesn't have that much ability wise. Throw imo is useless, same for it's reaction and movement abilities.

I'm also well are that its very squishy so defensive abilities are a must. But the bigger picture is do the other beefier melee jobs need the same defensive abilities? Do the other melee jobs do well with more offensive and better utility skills instead?
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