Are Ninjas in this game actually trash?

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  3. Are Ninjas in this game actually trash?

User Info: UchihaX66

UchihaX66
7 months ago#1
I know ninjas have have dual wield but to be honest thats the only thing they got going for them. Their crippling weakness is their terrible survivability, i usually struggle to keep them alive since their frail HP and they need to be in melee to do their damage.

Melee + very low hp is a bad combination.

Their main ability is very poor and limited and burns resources and money which could be used to buy more useful equipment. Other classes usually have decent but much better ranged options such as lancers, monks and geomancers and better health, those ranged attacks are usually safer that straight melee since monsters usually has a dangerous habit of countering melee attacks not to mention the special classes such as holy or dark knights are more reliable in terms of attacking and are also ranged.

The defense and reaction abilities are there but it still doesn't help that class in terms of survivability. Auto potion is might help but what good is that ability if that class dies from the actual attack? Shirahadori works against only a fraction of all possible attacks in this game and any other tanky melee class could equip a more offensive reaction skill making the ninjas offensive skill seem more limited.

It has the highest speed but that speed is also a double bladed sword since it also dictates how fast the death counter clicks before crystalization combined with the low health and survivability. Their dual wield ability seem better on beefier classes. Ninjas physical attack strength aren't all that special either matching knights and lancers but at the same time knights could equip much stronger weapons and having much better survivabiliy.

Any other opinions other would like to share?

Keep this thread civil.

User Info: meanspirit90

meanspirit90
7 months ago#2
Put Brawler on Ninja. I will only say that.
Thirst of knowledge is a dangerous thing. Just go back to your beer

User Info: wpot

wpot
7 months ago#3
Ninjas are a good unit. They should just be deployed in situations where it's unlikely they'll take hard hits (or, worse, get ganged up on). Use them to attack solo targets/throw from a distance/attack from safe locations/etc depending on the situation. Make sure their evasion is maximized (mantles) and pay attention to the direction they face.

All in all, sure, they're a little annoying if you just want to cheese through the game as they can die at times. If you're playing competitive battles, though, their power/speed is very useful. You just need to be careful with them.
Pronounced "Whup-pot". Say it. Use it.

User Info: UchihaX66

UchihaX66
7 months ago#4
meanspirit90 posted...
Put Brawler on Ninja. I will only say that.


Doesn't help their main weaknesses - range and survivability.

wpot posted...
Ninjas are a good unit. They should just be deployed in situations where it's unlikely they'll take hard hits (or, worse, get ganged up on). Use them to attack solo targets/throw from a distance/attack from safe locations/etc depending on the situation. Make sure their evasion is maximized (mantles) and pay attention to the direction they face.


It just limits where they need to be placed and potential dps because of "timid" use. Even if you play it safe some damage is rather unavoidable and will be targeted regardless especially since the AI has a nasty habit of targeting the low health units.

Personally i would consider ninjas as OK units at best.

User Info: Raijinili

Raijinili
7 months ago#5
They have 4 Move, best SP, high PA, Hats, Clothes, and Dual Wield. Innate Dual Wield on a job that already has high stats is easily a 2x multiplier on damage.

They are the strongest generic Physical carrier (with Geomancer being better at balancing offense and defense), carrying Jump, Arts of War, Martial Arts, and Steal well. Their main skill is meh, but that's fine when you have all those other options. Punch is pretty strong even without Brawler, so they carry Attack extremely well, too. Attack Boost Monk is stronger at Martial Arts and Steal, but not as fast or mobile.

With Equip Polearms and Jump, they can fix their low range.

Since the game is offense-oriented, their low survivability is not so much of an issue. Kill the enemies before they kill you. Use Reactions and Cloaks to increase survivability. There's also Chantage.

UchihaX66 posted...
Their main ability is very poor and limited and burns resources and money which could be used to buy more useful equipment.

Sure, but when you can buy the 16 WP Axe, that's a pretty strong throw.

UchihaX66 posted...
Other classes usually have decent but much better ranged options such as lancers, monks and geomancers and better health

Geomancy's weak for damage. The other skills can be put on Ninja.

UchihaX66 posted...
Shirahadori works against only a fraction of all possible attacks in this game

It's a really large fraction. It covers nearly all Physical attacks.

UchihaX66 posted...
Ninjas physical attack strength aren't all that special either matching knights and lancers but at the same time knights could equip much stronger weapons and having much better survivabiliy.

Ninja PA is actually 122% (BMG error). It's behind Monk (129%) and Samurai (128%).

Of the four other high-PA jobs, none can wear Hats, and the only other one that can wear Clothes is Monk. All four have 3 Move.

Weapons are overrated. Knight Swords are limited, except for Defender and ignoring multiplayer. You'll want the stronger Knight Swords on your many Special units.

But let's say you don't use Special units. Then the proper comparison is against Ninja's dual Punch, which is stronger than its weapons.

Punch damage is PA * [PA * Br / 100]. Knight Sword and Katana damage is WP * [PA * Br / 100], so we can compare them by factoring out the [PA * Br / 100] part (ignoring Ninja's higher PA options). Since Ninja has Dual Wield, we compare PA * 2 against WP. With Brawler, that becomes PA * 3.

Assume that Ninja has Headband (+2 PA), Power Garb (+2 PA), and Bracer (+3 PA). Then, assuming Ninja growth + Male, here are Ninja's effective WP at various levels:

lv x2 x3
0 24 36
10 28 42
20 30 45
30 34 51
40 36 54
50 38 57
60 42 63
70 44 66
80 48 72
90 50 75
100 52 78


As you can see, at around level 50, Male Ninja is already competing with Chaos Blade (40 WP). It beats weaker Knight Swords at level 10. Martial Arts Ninja already beats Chaos Blade at level 10.

User Info: Bebop

Bebop
7 months ago#6
i still like putting a hammer weapon in the main hand if im gonna secondary jump. leaves the support slot open for attack up, which enhances throw damage. hammers are best (assuming you havent caught a stock of knight swords) for throwing too.
theres just something about landing on someone with a morning star. thwap! Alternately, you could be an oracle and jump people with your monster dict.

User Info: Bebop

Bebop
7 months ago#7
realized this is the WotL board so people may not know what a monster dict is. also: attack up doesnt affect throw damage dummy. these people smh

User Info: Arknight75

Arknight75
7 months ago#8
First Strike. Close the topic. We are done here.

User Info: UchihaX66

UchihaX66
7 months ago#9
As you can see, at around level 50, Male Ninja is already competing with Chaos Blade (40 WP). It beats weaker Knight Swords at level 10. Martial Arts Ninja already beats Chaos Blade at level 10.


By doing that it still doesn't help the fact that it still needs to be in actual melee for a class that has incredibly frail health. If you equip martial arts, it'll still prove dire since humaniod enemies are likely equipped with feather mantles and will likely avoid the attack when concentration is a better support skill.

First Strike. Close the topic. We are done here.


First strike only works on the vast minority of potential attacks.

User Info: meanspirit90

meanspirit90
7 months ago#10
Berserk thy enemies, Close the topic.
Thirst of knowledge is a dangerous thing. Just go back to your beer
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