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  3. Fixed Dice + Master's Scroll's average damage is pretty low

User Info: slipd2

6 years ago#1
Looking for a character to use Master's Scroll on, Setzer seemed like a great idea at first since Fixed Dice ignores defense and row and Master's Scroll's damage penalty, and you only use up one relic slot for it whereas Genji Glove + Master's Scroll uses the shield slot and both relic slots.

But then I spent a few minutes writing some quick code to simulate it, curious to know how much average damage Fixed Dice + Master's Scroll does per turn. Results:

level 50: ~7480 average damage per turn
level 99: ~8820 average damage per turn

The actual average's pretty dismal compared to how plenty of characters can easily do a steady and even targetable 9k per turn at level 50 without using up a precious Master's Scroll or even a single relic, and even without magic like in Sabin and Gogo's cases.

So what's a better way to use Master's Scroll around level 50?

User Info: enigmatiq

6 years ago#2
Please show the math. Those damage values seem too low for those levels. Fixed Dice + Master's Scroll should break the damage cap (9999 total damage per turn, that's adding up all 4 throws) on average at around level 35 or maybe even a bit lower, according to my rough estimate and playing experience.
-Katana Crist [sic] [...] (MeepleLardicle)
-Savior of otaku (Lord Bob Bree)

User Info: MeepleLardicle

6 years ago#3
Those values are definitely very low. Just to illustrate the point:

At level 99, a 2/2/3 Roll, which is "below average" no matter how you work it, is 2376 damage per shot, or 9504 damage total. That's significantly higher than what you listed.

Furthermore, level 99 Fixed Dice attacks should be doing nearly twice as much as level 50 Fixed Dice, since Level is a straight up Multiplier, yet, your damage illustrates only 1400 damage more.

I think you screwed the math up somewhere with your calculations. At first I thought maybe you forgot to factor in the "*2" part at the end, but seeing Level 99 relative to level 50 damage, that doesn't seem to be the case.

Also, quick calculations that roll at level 40, a 3/3/3 roll, if it didn't get the Triplet Damage Bonus, would do 2160, which with Master's Scroll, would beat out your level 50 damage.
The site Meeple argues at for too much of his life!

User Info: shadestreet

6 years ago#4
Are the rolls truly random? At least on this Android version I am playing it seems I am getting a much higher frequency of 3-3-3 rolls than statistically expected.

Also, is 3-3-3 the only triple besides 1-1-1 and 6-6-6 that is possible? I have never seen a 2-2-2, 4-4-4, or 5-5-5 while playing. Immediately after getting the Airship I snagged the Master Scroll from Ancient Castle and Fixed Dice from Kefka Tower and have been using Setzer with these for tens of hours now, have only seen 1-1-1, 3-3-3, 6-6-6 (Not even positive I have seen a 6-6-6 but think at least once).

With the hundreds, if not thousands of rolls I have toosed, I would expect to see all triple combinations by now.

User Info: LoveCowboy2024

6 years ago#5
^^ I doubt it's an actual code issue... the RNG on the Android version just plain sucks.
i'm told the suit he wears (aka the "galactic prophylactic") won't let him create any sons or daughters-assassin17, on Cid from FF6

User Info: slipd2

6 years ago#6
Awesome, you're right! In quickly writing that code at like 3:30 am, I made a stupid mistake. The new averages are MUCH better:

level 40: ~11753 per turn
level 50: ~14149 per turn
level 70: ~18078 per turn
level 99: ~22213 per turn

I'm so, so sorry =( And here I was about to replace an excellent character, my imp-armor Setzer!

Maybe I should post my math in case I made any other mistakes. But I'm pretty sure I have it right this time since the numbers look alright... does anyone still want to see the calculations?

User Info: enigmatiq

6 years ago#7
I'd like to see the math. Please proceed with the exhibit.
-Katana Crist [sic] [...] (MeepleLardicle)
-Savior of otaku (Lord Bob Bree)

User Info: slipd2

6 years ago#8

Okay then, I'll try and post it shortly. Meanwhile I should probably explain something first: why my new averages still seem kinda low at higher levels and why I bothered to spend a bit more time simulating to find my averages instead of just trusting quick estimations.

I'm sure all you cool FF6 gurus know this already so feel free to stop reading now, but just to explain to everyone else: even though 3.25 is the average dice roll for the first 2 dice and 3.5 is the average dice roll for the third "fixed" die, calculating the average damage at level 99 by just doing
3.25 * 3.25 * 3.5 * 2 * 99 * 4 = 29279
really overestimates since this equation incorrectly counts all the damage above 9999 for all the rolls that go above 9999 damage per hit.

EXAMPLE: If we get 3, 4, and 6 for all four rolls, 3 * 4 * 6 * 99 * 2 * 4 = 57024. But by just multiplying it like that, we're not accounting for how you'll only get 9999 * 4 = 39996 that turn. So we really lose 17k damage that turn, but the quick estimate equation above incorrectly factors in all that extra 17k damage into the average anyway.

So that's why that 29279 quick estimate for level 99 is so much higher than my simulated average of 22213. That's why I decided to write some quick code to simulate this true average: to see just how high an impact all this damage we lose has to the average, and especially to see if it's all that significant at lower levels.
(message deleted)

User Info: slipd2

6 years ago#10
oops, just realized I accidentally hit the Delete Message instead of Edit Message in that last post. What's with me messing up so much lately... anyway, I said:

By the way, here's the simulation's average damage per turn for Setzer's standard Dice + Master's Scroll:

Level 40: ~5130
Level 50: ~6096
Level 70: ~8025
Level 99: ~10484

In case anyone like me was wondering if Genji Glove + Master's Scroll + Dice + Fixed Dice's worth it. So about 50% more damage than just normal Fixed Dice + Scroll... mmm, I think Final Trump might be a better Genji Glove supplement? But yeah, Final Trump's way too late in the game. Or oooh, can we get two Fixed Dice without cheating?

(P.S. I'll post the math a little later.. wanna play the game a bit more and have lunch atm.)
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