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Samsung 4k tv upscaling, picture looks amazing.

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  3. Samsung 4k tv upscaling, picture looks amazing.

User Info: revolver

revolver
4 months ago#11
ElDudorino posted...
F0cu5 posted...
If you're playing a 720p or 1080p game (PS3) on a 4k TV, and the image is filling the screen, it's being upscaled. This is true for all resolution combinations. If the game was not being upscaled, the picture would be small and surrounded by black borders. Different TVs use different methods to upscale and the results can vary in image quality and response time. In certain cases the console can do the upscaling before sending the image and the TV accepts the picture already at native resolution. Either way, the native resolution remains the native resolution and there is upscaling along the way.

Yeah, what the TC is referring to isn't upscaling. It's the post-processing his TV is applying to the image.

Technically speaking, a 1080p image looks the same viewed at 4k that it does viewed at 1080p.


It is upscaling though, literally listed as a feature of every good 4k tv.

User Info: ElDudorino

ElDudorino
4 months ago#12
revolver posted...
ElDudorino posted...
F0cu5 posted...
If you're playing a 720p or 1080p game (PS3) on a 4k TV, and the image is filling the screen, it's being upscaled. This is true for all resolution combinations. If the game was not being upscaled, the picture would be small and surrounded by black borders. Different TVs use different methods to upscale and the results can vary in image quality and response time. In certain cases the console can do the upscaling before sending the image and the TV accepts the picture already at native resolution. Either way, the native resolution remains the native resolution and there is upscaling along the way.

Yeah, what the TC is referring to isn't upscaling. It's the post-processing his TV is applying to the image.

Technically speaking, a 1080p image looks the same viewed at 4k that it does viewed at 1080p.


It is upscaling though, literally listed as a feature of every good 4k tv.

No, it's not. Upscaling is literally just filling the screen with the image. That's it. And it's not a feature of every "good 4k TV"; it's a feature of every TV of every resolution, because nobody wants a small box in the middle of their screen. A 1920x1080 (1080p) image is upscaled into a 3840x2160 (4k) image by doubling every horizontal pixel and every vertical pixel, which is a process that is necessary for an image to fill the same space given a larger number of total pixels on a display. So Instead of seeing one dot of a particular color, you'll see 4 dots of that color in a space of the same size. If the image was viewed without being upscaled, it would just be a small box in the middle of your display with thick black bars all around it.

If the image you see on a 4k display looks different than how it looked on a 1080p display, that's because the 4k display is applying more post-processing effects which modify the image sent to the TV. Minor image post-processing can generally be achieved without a significant performance loss, unlike video post-processing such as frame interpolation that many TVs employ when not in Game Mode.

You mentioned emulators earlier, and these serve as a good example. You'll notice that none of the graphics options are called "Upscaling" when you load up an emulator on your PC. They have filtering, shaders, and various other effects, but there's no "Upscaling" option because that is instead referred to as "Stretch Image" or "Fit to Screen".

Most of the same post-processing effects can be achieved without going to a higher resolution, so going to a different 1080p display could potentially have the same impact as going to the 4k display you saw. There's also more to the equation than post-processing; for example, going from a matte display to a glossy display can make a big difference in some cases. A higher-quality screen could also have better black levels, color accuracy and uniformity, and it might have better-adjusted settings.

In short, simply going to 4k is not a recipe for a better-looking picture.

User Info: GamecubeIchiban

GamecubeIchiban
4 months ago#13
revolver posted...
brought my ps3 to game on while I'm here. They have a massive new Samsung curved 4k tv, I was expecting my ps3 to look like garbage


Why?
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User Info: revolver

revolver
4 months ago#14
@ElDudorino

I literally said earlier I have a 1440p monitor on my pc and know what 720p or 1080p looks like simply stretched out on my screen. Why are there heaps of articles on tv upscaling quality and literally every decent review of a tv goes into depth of it's upscaling quality. Sure it's a form of post processing but it's still upscaling and there's a lot to doing it well besides stretching the image to the screen, look at all the different ways say a ps4 pro upscales.

GamecubeIchiban posted...
revolver posted...
brought my ps3 to game on while I'm here. They have a massive new Samsung curved 4k tv, I was expecting my ps3 to look like garbage

Why?


I thought the 4k tv would simply display the 720p image and that it would look extremely blurry on the massive screen.

User Info: ElDudorino

ElDudorino
4 months ago#15
revolver posted...
Why are there heaps of articles on tv upscaling quality and literally every decent review of a tv goes into depth of it's upscaling quality.

Good point, let's bring up some articles.

https://www.cnet.com/news/can-4k-tvs-make-1080p-look-better/
"If you were to watch 1080p content on your 2160p TV without upconverting, it would look like this: (picture of a TV with black bars around an image)"

https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/upscaling-how-does-it-work-and-is-it-worth-it/
"... a device that supports upscaling ... optimizes all those available pixels by ‘filling in the blanks’ and stretching the image across the entire screen."

http://www.techradar.com/news/television/everything-you-need-to-know-about-upscaling-484345
"If [lower-resolution content] was displayed on an HD Ready screen, there would be large areas of black, because many of the screen pixels wouldn't be used for the smaller-sized image. HD Ready sets, therefore, have a video processing chip, which is used for upscaling the image. Upscaling simply means matching the incoming picture signal with the native resolution of the display."

Now here, I'll concede that some of the post-processing is considered to be part of the upscaling process, so what I've said previously is not 100% accurate in that regard. But your understanding of upscaling is way off-base as I can see from statements like "[upscaling is] listed as a feature of every good 4k TV" (when literally all TVs on the market upscale) or "I thought the 4k tv would simply display the 720p image and that it would look extremely blurry on the massive screen" which makes no sense given that 1280x720 is mathematically a factor of 3840x2160, and so it makes this topic very misleading for other people who also don't know much about TVs.

If your 720p content is displayed at full-screen, which it will be 100% of the time, that means it has been upscaled. You would need actual software interference in order to not achieve upscaling on any TV of a higher resolution than the native resolution of your content, and again, the result would be black bars around the image (unless you used said software to upscale the content before feeding it to the TV). If your content looks different on the higher-resolution TV it's because of other factors which go beyond just having upscaled the content in the literal sense, and as I mentioned before, the majority of those factors can also exist on TVs of the same resolution as the content you're feeding them.

All that having been said, upgrading from your old 1080p TV to a new 4k TV is likely to result in better picture quality regardless of the reason. But, to say it's because of upscaling would give the wrong impression that you'd get the same results on any TV that upscales (which is every TV) and could give somebody the idea that an upgrade from 1080p to 4k is a guaranteed improvement when in fact going from a high-end 1080p TV to a low-end 4k one would be a decrease in quality in spite of the "upscaling" that would be guaranteed to occur.

Am I being pedantic? Maybe. But it's a personal pet peeve of mine to see these terms thrown around and to know that people are going to read them and end up with utterly wrong ideas about tech that could actually result in poor purchasing habits.
#16
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User Info: revolver

revolver
4 months ago#17
ElDudorino posted...

Am I being pedantic?


Yes you are.

"Samsung 4k tv upscaling, picture looks amazing"

Literally the title of my topic I specifically say Samsung 4k tv upscaling because their upscaling solution looked surprisingly incredible to me. Yes I instantly saw by looking at it that they aren't simply fitting the 720p picture to the screen like I said again my computer monitor would with a 720p signal.

Stop arguing about something you think I implied.

User Info: Gaara_fan

Gaara_fan
4 months ago#18
Actually, ElDudorino is right on point on both posts. Upscaling is a process that pretty much any HD-able TV does and the name
the process itself doesn't give any quality to it, since as ElDudorino already explained, it either upscales or it doesn't (and hence black bars). The differences are on post-image processing that a particular TV may apply.
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User Info: revolver

revolver
4 months ago#19
Gaara_fan posted...
Actually, ElDudorino is right on point on both posts. Upscaling is a process that pretty much any HD-able TV does and the name
the process itself doesn't give any quality to it, since as ElDudorino already explained, it either upscales or it doesn't (and hence black bars). The differences are on post-image processing that a particular TV may apply.

There are different methods for upscaling though, which is why higher end sets have a chip for it.

That's fine that you guys want to argue semantics and talk about upscaling in it's purest, most unadulterated form but I'm talking about how good their particular solution looked.

IDC to argue semantics, you know what I'm talking about.

User Info: ElDudorino

ElDudorino
4 months ago#20
That's the thing: You won't find an HDTV that *doesn't* have a chip for it, so it's not about high-end versus low-end in that sense. One TV will do more to the scaled image than the other, but scaling is happening regardless.

I mean yeah, I knew I was derailing the topic. But looking at posts #2, 3, and 4 in this topic, I think it was warranted. Before the clarifying post from F0cu5 in post #6, it basically sounded like upscaling was some kind of magic picture-enhancing ray. People have a tendency to mix up the concepts of scaling an image to a higher resolution and actually *rendering* it at that higher resolution, which are drastically different and should never be compared. People tend to glom onto the idea that they're the same thing and that ignorance will lead to poorer buying habits.

Plus, arguing semantics is the best.
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