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  3. What made the older ps3 systems play ps2 games?

User Info: Zazabar

Zazabar
6 years ago#1
Was it the disk drive or something else in the system?

If someone were to get ahold of one of those PS3s, would they be able to scalp those parts and put them into a different PS3?
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User Info: NajibTheChamp

NajibTheChamp
6 years ago#2
The PlayStation 2 hardware was included in the PS3's initial hardware. Both the CPU and GPU were combined in one chip.
Everything is my delusion! - Tengu
PSN: sheep621| Consoles: PS2, PS3, PS4, PS Vita, DSi, 2DS

User Info: Billysan

Billysan
6 years ago#3
There was two versions if I recall correctly.


One had the hardware inside the console and the other was emulation.
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User Info: Zack_Attackv1

Zack_Attackv1
6 years ago#4
^ That.
http://i.imgur.com/Nwpf8gF.jpg

User Info: spectral

spectral
6 years ago#5
Actually almost that. The early models with BC had both the PS2 GPU and CPU. The later BC models used partial emultaion. They had the PS2 GPU but emulated the CPU.

User Info: DrStran3g3

DrStran3g3
6 years ago#6
The Playstation 3 has many emulators, we're going to discuss the PS2 one. There are currently 3 emulators for dealing with PS2 games listed inside the PS3 firmware.

Emulator A - This emulator uses the PS2's CPU and GPU chip inside the PS3. This lets the PS3 play any PS2 disc you put inside. This is the most powerful "emulator", but in reality this is just a PS2 literally inside a PS3.

Emulator B- This emulator ONLY uses half of the components. The PS2's CPU chip is in place, the PS3 emulates remaining half of the PS2's GPU. This lets the PS3 play any PS2 disc you inside. Compared to Emulator A, this one has some visual oddities or framerate issues, but it is still a very high emulation playback of PS2 discs.

Emulator C - This emulator uses NONE of the PS2's CPU or GPU chips. This emulator relies on the PS3's powerful CPU, everything from the PS2 is entirely emulated on the PS3. When you download and play PS2 Classics from PSN, this is the emulator your console uses. This is the only emulator that doesn't play PS2 discs. Every PS3 has access to this emulator regardless if they're backwards compatible or not with PS2 discs.

When you go back and read the PS3's early documentation you find some interesting stuff for their tech. Using 2 Cell processors as CPU and GPU was one of the original design of the PS3 console, they had to quickly call NVidia at tail gate of the PS3's R&D to assign it a conventional GPU. Another treat was emulation. The PS1 was always going to be emulated regardless on PS3, the actual problem was PS2 emulation. Emulator C was the original intention of the PS3. To always software emulate the PS2, unfortunately when Microsoft announced and released the 360 far ahead of everyone else they had to speed up production and they used physical parts of the PS2 to get around backwards compatability. Sony later went back to this and were able finish the original PS2 software emulator. When the PS3 modding community got a look at the code, it turns out that this plays more than just Sony leads on with an estimated 60% of the PS2 library working on every single PS3 unit. Considering the age of the PS3 came from (before WiFi and HD standards), the strict 10x power requirement for emulation, RAM pool split between 512MB on CPU&GPU, its quite an impressive feat Sony was able to return PS2 emulation on the PS3.

If someone were to get ahold of one of those PS3s, would they be able to scalp those parts and put them into a different PS3?


No, you can't swap and manage PS3 motherboards like that. The only thing you can do is swap out the PSUs for smaller watt usage on the original 60GB/20GB PS3s.

And a word to the wise, if you own a PS4 or are planning on buying one, you should know that the PS4 and XboX One use a very terrible AMD solution for the main processing unit. It is an APU that has been established for low end consumer electronics, the PS4 and Xbox One use nearly the same APU from the same manufacturer and share the most of the same limitations of the technology. What this is means is because of how tremendously underpowered APUs are (nowhere as closed as real CPUs for benchmark power), you can kiss goodbye to PS2 emulation. Try running a PS2 emulator on PC build with an APU downclocked to 1.6GHZ (PS4's known clock speed) and let's see how much fun you have playing PS2 games at backwards negative 15 "cinematic" FPS on it.
My favorite PS4 game is the one that doesn't have "Remaster", "Ultimate", or "Director's Cut" in the title.

User Info: youneedalife

youneedalife
6 years ago#7
Dr.Stran3g3, what does that mean for the future of games on the ps4/xboxone? Bit of a newb here when it comes to tech so I'm curious, does that mean we've essentially hit the ceiling and 1080p/60fps in the future isn't going to be consistently possible? Or will developers be able to utilize the underpowered APU as they finally "get familar" with the tech inside the ps4/xboxone?

User Info: DrStran3g3

DrStran3g3
6 years ago#8
It means the Xbox One and PS4 generation a reset button for tech on the console side. Nothing from yesteryear works for this reason. Not even PS1 emulation on PS4, which is possible, but requires Sony to start all over. The PSP, PS Vita, and PS3 can all swap save data for PS1 Classic interchangeably because the emulator is the same between all 3.

For the future, it should -in theory- allow the Playstation 5 and Xbox "4" to be backwards compatible with everything from current generation. When I say in theory, it means there isn't a complete do over of the architecture between x86--->x86 again. Which is why I stress that most people forgo this generation of underpowered consoles and bank on the next generation giving us that 1080p60FPS spec people demand.

Consider the following, the PS3 and Xbox 360 generation lasted much longer than their predecessors because of the combined global financial recession and leap in power from PS2--->PS3 era. You don't get that giant leap from PS3--->PS4, these consoles will have the same life span as other normal console generations. It's not just me saying that, even Sony admits this gen will be 5-6 years long. Of course, Sony could be underhanded like this generation and Remaster games like Bloodborne and Infamous Second Son at 60FPS. If you're worried about this, I give Sony/Microsoft an 80% chance their next consoles will be backwards compatible, with 20% chance of them doing the same thing as the 8th Remaster console generation we're stuck on.

However, if your question was mastering the APU...there's not much to master. AMD has released multi-core processors like hexa and octocores and no game developer has paid much attention to them. Indeed, even big performance pushers like the Crysis trilogy, Witcher 2, and Skyrim don't push the CPU envelope pass 2-4 cores. The PS4 and Xbox One use 7 APU mini cores (8 total, one reserved for the OS), so having 7 underpowered that are far weaker than Intel dual cores isn't bleeding tech or impressing anyone. If you want my personal opinion, there's a higher chance of a "PS4.5" released that has uses the same AMD technology, but more recent and higher clocked. That keeps the architecture the same and gives them the power boost they'd need to make Project Morpheus work across the board without breaking the bank.


tldr; Familiarizing themselves isn't nothing new, these current gen consoles can get PC ports because the hardware is now essentially the same across the board. This is why Metal Gear Solid and other console franchises are appearing on the PC, the hardware is the same. This optimization you speak of already exists, they hit the 30FPS ceiling because I'm serious when I say the AMD APU inside the PS4 and Xbone are EXTREMELY weak. APUS are not meant for gaming, Sony and Microsoft chose them because they are "good enough", they don't exceed like the PS3 and Xbox 360's CPUs. So weak that the PS4 will have a super hard time trying to emulate the PS2.
My favorite PS4 game is the one that doesn't have "Remaster", "Ultimate", or "Director's Cut" in the title.

User Info: Gaara_fan

Gaara_fan
6 years ago#9
DrStran3g3 posted...
It means the Xbox One and PS4 generation a reset button for tech on the console side. Nothing from yesteryear works for this reason. Not even PS1 emulation on PS4, which is possible, but requires Sony to start all over. The PSP, PS Vita, and PS3 can all swap save data for PS1 Classic interchangeably because the emulator is the same between all 3.

For the future, it should -in theory- allow the Playstation 5 and Xbox "4" to be backwards compatible with everything from current generation. When I say in theory, it means there isn't a complete do over of the architecture between x86--->x86 again. Which is why I stress that most people forgo this generation of underpowered consoles and bank on the next generation giving us that 1080p60FPS spec people demand.

Consider the following, the PS3 and Xbox 360 generation lasted much longer than their predecessors because of the combined global financial recession and leap in power from PS2--->PS3 era. You don't get that giant leap from PS3--->PS4, these consoles will have the same life span as other normal console generations. It's not just me saying that, even Sony admits this gen will be 5-6 years long. Of course, Sony could be underhanded like this generation and Remaster games like Bloodborne and Infamous Second Son at 60FPS. If you're worried about this, I give Sony/Microsoft an 80% chance their next consoles will be backwards compatible, with 20% chance of them doing the same thing as the 8th Remaster console generation we're stuck on.

However, if your question was mastering the APU...there's not much to master. AMD has released multi-core processors like hexa and octocores and no game developer has paid much attention to them. Indeed, even big performance pushers like the Crysis trilogy, Witcher 2, and Skyrim don't push the CPU envelope pass 2-4 cores. The PS4 and Xbox One use 7 APU mini cores (8 total, one reserved for the OS), so having 7 underpowered that are far weaker than Intel dual cores isn't bleeding tech or impressing anyone. If you want my personal opinion, there's a higher chance of a "PS4.5" released that has uses the same AMD technology, but more recent and higher clocked. That keeps the architecture the same and gives them the power boost they'd need to make Project Morpheus work across the board without breaking the bank.


tldr; Familiarizing themselves isn't nothing new, these current gen consoles can get PC ports because the hardware is now essentially the same across the board. This is why Metal Gear Solid and other console franchises are appearing on the PC, the hardware is the same. This optimization you speak of already exists, they hit the 30FPS ceiling because I'm serious when I say the AMD APU inside the PS4 and Xbone are EXTREMELY weak. APUS are not meant for gaming, Sony and Microsoft chose them because they are "good enough", they don't exceed like the PS3 and Xbox 360's CPUs. So weak that the PS4 will have a super hard time trying to emulate the PS2.

It's good to read a tech knowledge post once in a while. Thanks for these information/data.
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User Info: Haoie

Haoie
6 years ago#10
Quite informative! Thank you. Always interesting to see a bit about tech specs.
PlayStation enthusiast/collector, from PS1 to PS3!
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