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User Info: Nerthing

Nerthing
6 years ago#1
When I have had the time, I have been examining many aspects of the game. I have been documenting them on a website that I will eventually release when I am comfortable with the amount of content. In the meantime, I will display some of the information I found interesting. This information may not be useful in a practical sense, but it may be interesting if you enjoy the game. I will be posting bits of information on an occasional basis.

Feel free to talk about whatever you want though; I will gladly discuss any tips/strategies/game mechanics.

User Info: Nerthing

Nerthing
6 years ago#2
Inferno & Kigny Levels

Monsters can level by killing another monster or NPC (and through certain items). Most monster families have a max level of 4, with some exceptions, such as the Bowboy family and bosses (who do not level).

Inferno and Kigny do not follow this convention though. Inferno and Kigny have 5 main levels (where their sprite's palette colors change). Both can be leveled to 99.

Normally when a monster levels, the new form obtains the HP that it would naturally have:

A Field Bandit has 18 HP, and would have 25 HP if it were leveled up to a Jar Bandit. This is the same HP as if you naturally found a Jar Bandit.

Inferno and Kigny do not do this. Once leveled (even to 99), they will always have the same amount of HP: 35 for Inferno and 40 for Kigny.

Here are the individual experience values for the 5 levels:

Inferno - 55
Inferno2 - 90
Inferno3 - 250
Inferno4 - 550
Inferno5 - 950

Once we get to the levels that use the same color palette, Inferno will only give 25 more experience per level, so experience gain looks like this:

Inferno6 - 975
Inferno7 - 1,000
Inferno98 - 3,275
Inferno99 - 3,300

The same idea applies to Kigny:

Kigny - 50
Kigny2 - 80
Kigny3 - 200
Kigny4 - 500
Kigny5 - 900

Once again, experience increase is only 25 from each level afterwards:

Kigny6 - 925
Kigny7 - 950
Kigny98 - 3,225
Kigny99 - 3,250

I noticed that when you level either of these enemies with an item (such as Staff of Happiness), they will attack you immediately after being leveled. Other monsters will not attack you when they are leveled.

I haven't had the opportunity to verify it yet, but it seems that Inferno and Kigny do not do more damage in any form after they hit level 5.

User Info: Aretitty

Aretitty
6 years ago#3
I've got a question concerning winds of Kron. It sounds like this:
What are they for?
How do they affect gameplay mechanics? Shiren games are perfectly polished, yet if not for NPC telling about them, I probably wouldn't have known about them at all. I beat all dungeons I could find including FP twice and I had THREE times I was actually affected by them. First, in ravine of illusions I've felt a breeze before moving to the next floor. Second, I had really bad run and decided to be blown on purpose, just to confirm it equals death like I suspected. And, third, while being around 70 floor of FP i decided to sort my belongings while being in the monster house. After a while I suddenly remembered about Kron and, not being sure if it always gives a warning breeze before blowing you away, decided to move on. That's it! What am I missing? Is there some kind of exploiting strategy it is aimed to prevent? What's the point of staying on one floor for so long that you actually need a threat to move on? Are hunger and meaninglessness not enough?

User Info: Nerthing

Nerthing
6 years ago#4
Aretity posted...
I've got a question concerning winds of Kron. It sounds like this:
What are they for?
How do they affect gameplay mechanics? Shiren games are perfectly polished, yet if not for NPC telling about them, I probably wouldn't have known about them at all. I beat all dungeons I could find including FP twice and I had THREE times I was actually affected by them. First, in ravine of illusions I've felt a breeze before moving to the next floor. Second, I had really bad run and decided to be blown on purpose, just to confirm it equals death like I suspected. And, third, while being around 70 floor of FP i decided to sort my belongings while being in the monster house. After a while I suddenly remembered about Kron and, not being sure if it always gives a warning breeze before blowing you away, decided to move on. That's it! What am I missing? Is there some kind of exploiting strategy it is aimed to prevent? What's the point of staying on one floor for so long that you actually need a threat to move on? Are hunger and meaninglessness not enough?

Winds of Kron

The Winds of Kron is an event that occurs after a certain amount of turns pass on a floor. After a certain amount of turns, a warning gust will occur from Kron (god of travel) to let Shiren know he must hurry on his way. Two more warning gusts occur on later turns, and finally Shiren will be blown away, which is the same as defeat, where all items are lost.

A countdown value records each action that has occurred: moving, attacking, using items, dropping items, idling, and throwing items count as turns. Some locations give you 1,000 turns before being blown away, some give 2,000. Here are the specifics:

1,000 turns

Kitchen God (all floors)
Kobami Valley/Table Mountain (Floors 1-7, 15-16)
Road to the Hamlet [tutorial] (all floors)
Scroll Cave (all floors)


2,000 turns

Ceremonial Cave (all floors)
Final Puzzle (all floors)
Kobami Valley/Table Mountain (Floors 8-14, 17-30)
Ravine of the Dead (all floors)
Tainted Path (all floors)

Villages and Fay's Puzzles have a value of 9,900, which does not decrease. Forcing 0 turns left via cheats causes nothing in villages, and causes defeat in a Fay's Puzzle.

Warnings occur at 300, 200, and 100 turns left. At 0, you are blown away and defeated. This means you have 700 or 1,700 turns before the first warning based on your location. It is interesting to note that in Kobami Valley/Table Mountain, only outside locations have 1,000 turns, while inside locations have 2,000.

Why does this occur?
This was probably put in as a prevention from power leveling. The only problem with staying on the same floor constantly is hunger and HP. With an arsenal of items or valuable meats, it is possible to survive for a very long time, or possibly forever.

The Polygon and Riceball family meats can eliminate the need for food items. Fluffy Bunny Meat can help with both problems, since you could just heal yourself while starving. Since enemies generate occasionally and never stop generating, without the Winds of Kron, it would be possible (and time consuming) to level yourself to a high level and breeze through the floors.

Shiren caps at level 99 with a total experience of 2,760,000. A Hell Dragon gives 7,000 experience each kill. Assuming you started at level 1 (just for the sake of discussion), you would have to kill 395 dragons to hit 99, which would take a long time.

In conclusion, it just prevents power leveling, although you could still do so until the winds pick up. The developers probably wanted to keep with the idea of Mystery Dungeon games, where level grinding is not the main focus. Torneko no Daibouken Fushigi no Dungeon (the first Mystery Dungeon game) has this mechanic too (as an earthquake).

User Info: Aretitty

Aretitty
6 years ago#5
That was my first thought as well, but I don't know... Doesn't look like this pays off. It's really time consuming, and by the time you've reched, say, Hell Dragons (and you have a fridge full of Fluffy Bunny meats), you're pretty high level already. Not only that, by the time you've gained the skill and knowledge to even reach the aforementioned dragons and accumulate required items, you're skilled enough to just move along without wasting your time on leveling your character (this topic covers it partially http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/925583-mystery-dungeon-shiren-the-wanderer/69523112).
Not to mention there's just ton of things in Shiren which will just totally obliterate you without giving a dammn about your level.

User Info: Nerthing

Nerthing
6 years ago#6
Aretity posted...
That was my first thought as well, but I don't know... Doesn't look like this pays off. It's really time consuming, and by the time you've reched, say, Hell Dragons (and you have a fridge full of Fluffy Bunny meats), you're pretty high level already. Not only that, by the time you've gained the skill and knowledge to even reach the aforementioned dragons and accumulate required items, you're skilled enough to just move along without wasting your time on leveling your character (this topic covers it partially http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/925583-mystery-dungeon-shiren-the-wanderer/69523112).
Not to mention there's just ton of things in Shiren which will just totally obliterate you without giving a dammn about your level.


Strategy is definitely the name of the game. After all, it's technically possible to beat the game without gaining any experience, although luck does play a role in your progress. I have never had a warning for the Wind of Kron when playing the game normally. The only time I would ever experience it was when I was purposely trying to experience it. So, in a practical sense you will never really have a problem with it.

I feel that it is there to prevent you from grinding certain aspects that could be exploited (besides levels of course). They would all be time consuming, but could help you prevent death in some situations. Some ideas:

- Get meat from enemies (possibly rarer spawning enemies)
- Get items from enemies who always drop one (such as the Walrus family)
- Get certain traps from the Roid family (such as an inventory of Pitfall Traps)

User Info: Nerthing

Nerthing
6 years ago#7
Items Not in Game

Each item has a number associated with it, with some of the numbers containing items that aren't in the regular game. I have checked the Japanese version, and these items are the same exact way in that version.

Descriptions follow name. Notes in brackets [ ].

31 - ? Shield (3 Str./8 Max), No particular special effects.
37 - ? Shield (5 Str./8 Max), ????
42 - ? Shield (1 Str./8 Max), ????
64 - ? Armband, ????
83 - ? Scroll, ????
96 - ? Scroll, A name is written on the Blank Scroll
97 - ? Scroll, ????
98 - ? Scroll, ????
131 - ? Jar, ????
176 - Dish, A dish that Gaibara is trying to make for Precipice, a mountain restaurant.
182 - Skull (Staff), Normally it seems to float, but stands on the ground when the staff is swung. [Can't be swung by Shiren, assuming it's Skull family weapon]
183 - Stone, Some say that the stones are actually stones extracted from the Piggy's body [Pigg family stone]
385 - ?, ????
386 - ?, ????
387 - ?, ????
388 - Cannonball, Converts frustration into steel for unlimited ammunition. [Tank cannonball, Can't be dropped: “You can't leave anything more here.”, Scroll icon when thrown for random 0-5ish damage.]
389 - Flames, Flames are created by mixing internal gases with blood. [Can't be dropped: “You can't leave anything more here.”]
417 - (In Dungeon:) Stairway, Allow you to proceed to the next area [Does what it says, does not disappear when used.] (In Village:) Transport Pattern, Returns you to the surface [When used, asks to "Return to the surface?" Saying yes finishes current quest successfully]

User Info: JimJam707

JimJam707
6 years ago#8
Nerthing posted...
Items Not in Game

Each item has a number associated with it, with some of the numbers containing items that aren't in the regular game. I have checked the Japanese version, and these items are the same exact way in that version.

Descriptions follow name. Notes in brackets [ ].

31 - ? Shield (3 Str./8 Max), No particular special effects.
37 - ? Shield (5 Str./8 Max), ????
42 - ? Shield (1 Str./8 Max), ????
64 - ? Armband, ????
83 - ? Scroll, ????
96 - ? Scroll, A name is written on the Blank Scroll
97 - ? Scroll, ????
98 - ? Scroll, ????
131 - ? Jar, ????
176 - Dish, A dish that Gaibara is trying to make for Precipice, a mountain restaurant.
182 - Skull (Staff), Normally it seems to float, but stands on the ground when the staff is swung. [Can't be swung by Shiren, assuming it's Skull family weapon]
183 - Stone, Some say that the stones are actually stones extracted from the Piggy's body [Pigg family stone]
385 - ?, ????
386 - ?, ????
387 - ?, ????
388 - Cannonball, Converts frustration into steel for unlimited ammunition. [Tank cannonball, Can't be dropped: “You can't leave anything more here.”, Scroll icon when thrown for random 0-5ish damage.]
389 - Flames, Flames are created by mixing internal gases with blood. [Can't be dropped: “You can't leave anything more here.”]
417 - (In Dungeon:) Stairway, Allow you to proceed to the next area [Does what it says, does not disappear when used.] (In Village:) Transport Pattern, Returns you to the surface [When used, asks to "Return to the surface?" Saying yes finishes current quest successfully]


Out of interest, is there anything else unused in Shiren? There isn't a page for it on tcfr.net so I'm interested in writing one
Now Playing: Dragon Quest VII (3DS)

User Info: Nerthing

Nerthing
6 years ago#9
JimJam707 posted...
Nerthing posted...
Items Not in Game

Each item has a number associated with it, with some of the numbers containing items that aren't in the regular game. I have checked the Japanese version, and these items are the same exact way in that version.

Descriptions follow name. Notes in brackets [ ].

31 - ? Shield (3 Str./8 Max), No particular special effects.
37 - ? Shield (5 Str./8 Max), ????
42 - ? Shield (1 Str./8 Max), ????
64 - ? Armband, ????
83 - ? Scroll, ????
96 - ? Scroll, A name is written on the Blank Scroll
97 - ? Scroll, ????
98 - ? Scroll, ????
131 - ? Jar, ????
176 - Dish, A dish that Gaibara is trying to make for Precipice, a mountain restaurant.
182 - Skull (Staff), Normally it seems to float, but stands on the ground when the staff is swung. [Can't be swung by Shiren, assuming it's Skull family weapon]
183 - Stone, Some say that the stones are actually stones extracted from the Piggy's body [Pigg family stone]
385 - ?, ????
386 - ?, ????
387 - ?, ????
388 - Cannonball, Converts frustration into steel for unlimited ammunition. [Tank cannonball, Can't be dropped: “You can't leave anything more here.”, Scroll icon when thrown for random 0-5ish damage.]
389 - Flames, Flames are created by mixing internal gases with blood. [Can't be dropped: “You can't leave anything more here.”]
417 - (In Dungeon:) Stairway, Allow you to proceed to the next area [Does what it says, does not disappear when used.] (In Village:) Transport Pattern, Returns you to the surface [When used, asks to "Return to the surface?" Saying yes finishes current quest successfully]


Out of interest, is there anything else unused in Shiren? There isn't a page for it on tcfr.net so I'm interested in writing one

I might have missed a few. I will have to double check when I get chance.

User Info: JimJam707

JimJam707
6 years ago#10
Nerthing posted...
JimJam707 posted...
Nerthing posted...
Items Not in Game


Out of interest, is there anything else unused in Shiren? There isn't a page for it on tcfr.net so I'm interested in writing one

I might have missed a few. I will have to double check when I get chance.


How did you manage to find the items?
Now Playing: Dragon Quest VII (3DS)
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