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bluedoom57 2 years ago#1
And how would you do it?

I'm trying to do a playthrough seeing just how strong I can get Zack before chapter 5. (I limited myself to chapter 4 since that's when you get materia fusion, and figured something like this wouldn't be as interesting otherwise, and item fusion just *happens* to be in chapter 5, along with the other two accessory slots from what I can tell).

Given that I can't fuse items into my materia, I'm limited to just basic materia fusion and things I can find. With this in mind, despite trying, I definitely don't have a firm enough grasp of the materia system to know what the limits are, or how to reach them, when it comes to materia fusion. I *have* managed to make a Darkness materia with +70% HP on it, but that's about the best I've gotten.

For what it's worth, I'm also playing the japanese version, so I have more missions available in category 6 than other versions would have.
ZeoKnight 2 years ago#2
There is a way to farm Darkness as early as Chapter 3. Mission 6-1-1 will be unlocked after reaching Chapter 3. Continue to clear mission 6-1-2 to 6-1-6, then 6-3-1 to 6-3-3. In 6-3-4 there is a monster called Demon in the random encounters that has Darkness as rare drop. The fastest way to kill this enemy is by using Blast Wave, but fusing this materia won't be easy though, as the only way to fuse it without relying on item would be by fusing Power Attack (dropped by Guard Spider in chapter 3) with Electrocute. There are two ways of obtaining this materia, either on mission 6-6-5 (continue down the 6-3-4 path) or 8-6-3 (after reaching Mako Reactor #5 in Chapter 4, start from 8-4-1). Otherwise you need to deal with Demon in the normal way, which is possible but takes up time.

Darkness has HP +20% as its default value. When combining same materia with different stat, a materia with lower stat will transfer half of its stat to the higher stat. By using your available materia as example:
Darkness (HP +70%) + Darkness (HP +20%) = Darkness (HP +80%)
Darkness (HP +80%) + Darkness (HP +20%) = Darkness (HP +90%)
Darkness (HP +90%) + Darkness (HP +20%) = Darkness (HP +100%)
...
and so on until (HP +999%)

Demon also drops MAG Up+ and there is a way to convert a fresh Darkness so it has MAG stat instead of HP. By keep fusing fresh Darkness on that modified Darkness, theoretically you can build Darkness (MAG +100) on it. However, Darkness itself doesn't depend on MAG stat, so building MAG stat on it without using another spell will render it useless.

That's the limit I can tell. No enemy in the game drop ATK Up, VIT Up or SPR Up. You can steal them from some enemies, but the Steal materia itself is only available in chapter 5. WIthout the ability to build VIT and SPR, it's almost impossible to survive through the "very hard" missions. The strongest setup I can come up with is:
Darkness (HP +999%)
Darkness (HP +650%)
X
X

This will at least give 9,999 HP. The two free slots can be used for Libra and ATK Up to slightly increase your ATK stat. Zack's accessories should be two Shinra Alphas (or the best one would be two Shinra Beta+s farmable using Magic Pot trick available in Chapter 3) to increase VIT, although it's still not enough to give you the absolute protection.
First FOTM won 05/26/2017, FOTM wins/attempts: 4/8, first ROTM won 01/06/2018, ROTM wins/attempts: 1/5
First COTM won 08/10/2018, COTM wins: 3
bluedoom57 2 years ago#3
Even without ATK up, VIT up, or SPR up materia, if a command materia had those stats, wouldn't it still be possible to eventually get them to +100? Or does that 'same materia' thing only work for HP?

Also, you *can* get Steal in chapter 4, it's from a chest in mission 8-3-6. I got that, plus Mog's Amulet and the Brigand's gloves, so I should be able to steal anything from any available monster.

If I grind up to level 90, I reach max natural VIT of 62. With two Shinra Beta+, that gets me up to 222 total, which isn't all that bad all things considered. I just need to figure out the fastest EXP grind available to me lol
ZeoKnight 2 years ago#4
bluedoom57 posted...
Even without ATK up, VIT up, or SPR up materia, if a command materia had those stats, wouldn't it still be possible to eventually get them to +100?
If that materia only has +1 or +10%, it's impossible to build stat by fusing them because the lower materia doesn't have anything to be transferred. Not many materia has default stat that's higher than +1 or +10%. Darkness is one of the exceptions.

Also, you *can* get Steal in chapter 4, it's from a chest in mission 8-3-6.
Oh, I miscalculated that. If Steal is possible, then you can literally build any kind of stat into Darkness. ATK Up is a rare steal from Death Claw (8-2-6) / Ifrit (8-1-1). VIT Up is a rare steal from Vajradhara Cala (4-1-6 / 4-2-1) / Vajradhara Rakshasa (4-2-3). SPR Up is a common (SPR Up+) and rare (SPR Up++) steal from Malboro (9-1-1) but this is only possible after unlocking 8-4-1 near the entrance of Mako Reactor #5 in chapter 4. Just convert one Darkness to one with the desired stat and then fuse fresh Darkness on it to build stat.

The best earliest setup would be like:
Darkness (HP +999%)
Darkness (VIT +100)
Darkness (SPR +100)
Darkness (ATK +100) / (VIT +100) / (SPR +100)
Shinra Beta+ (VIT +80)
Crystal Orb (SPR +80)

This would give at least 255 in either VIT or SPR even in the low level game. Switching is necessary to adapt what attacks that the enemies will mostly give. Of course as the mission gets harder, many enemies can deal piercing damage which absolutely render the stat useless. At that time stacking HP +999% is probably the best you can do, on top of equipping Adaman Bangle for its Break HP Limit. Moreover, this setup doesn't have any ailment protection that most of the enemies will attempt to inflict, so you'll need to restock a lot of Remedies. And one more thing, there are many end-game accessories that give boosted stat and certain effect, so you need to adjust the setting after reaching certain missions.

I just need to figure out the fastest EXP grind available to me lol
EXP is pretty much hidden in the game, and the leveling up process through DMW is pretty much random also. You don't need to worry about level because building stat is what really matters than level.
First FOTM won 05/26/2017, FOTM wins/attempts: 4/8, first ROTM won 01/06/2018, ROTM wins/attempts: 1/5
First COTM won 08/10/2018, COTM wins: 3
bluedoom57 2 years ago#5
I figured out how useful darkness is for building stats, yeah. Once I get the stat on there that I want, and get it above a certain point, I can literally just farm darkness and put it into itself to keep raising the stats. Darkness takes no time at all to farm. I *also* managed to get my ATK stat onto a Wall materia, and boosted that to +100 with darknesses. With that, I deal 9999 damage to the demons and can kill them in two hits, and with the moogle armlet I get guaranteed darkness drops. Stupid good for gathering SP, and of course, lets me boost my stats by 1 each.

You mentioned not having any status protection, but that's easily coverable with Hell Firaga + Status Ward. My materia setup is looking to be:
Darkness (HP+999%)
Darkness (VIT+100)
Darkness (SPR+100)
Wall (ATK+100)
Hell Firaga (Unsure)
Status Ward (Unsure).

If I could get VIT and SPR on Hell Firaga and Status Ward respectively, that'd be perfect. At max level, with 62 vitality (You have 62 SPR at max level as well), If I use the setup I just mentioned, plus a shinra beta+, it leaves me at 242 vitality. While not *quite* max, this setup *also* allows me to have barrier, which is quite a massive boost in damage reduction.

Also, is it actually possible to get the Adaman bangle under these restrictions? I forget if it's available in chapter 4 or not.
ZeoKnight 2 years ago#6
bluedoom57 posted...
If I could get VIT and SPR on Hell Firaga and Status Ward respectively, that'd be perfect.
The best method would be by transferring stat from Darkness to both materia.

Darkness (+X) + HP Up = Elemental Ward (+X),
Elemental Ward (+X) + Poison = Dispel (+X)
Dispel (+X) + Tri-Fire / Flare / Energy / Ultima / Magical Punch / Hammer Punch / Costly Punch / DMW Materia = Status Ward (+X)

Hell Firaga + Darkness (+X) = Hell Firaga (+X)

With that, you can save two slots for other materia
Darkness (HP+999%)
Hell Firaga (VIT+100)
Status Ward (SPR+100)
Wall (ATK+100)
X (VIT+100)
X (SPR+100)

is it actually possible to get the Adaman bangle under these restrictions? I forget if it's available in chapter 4 or not.
After unlocking 8-4-1 near the entrance of Mako Reactor #5, you can touch the 9 set, meaning it's possible to obtain most of the end-game accessories if you really want it. Adaman Bangle is obtainable as early as 9-2-4, and available as a rare steal from Grandpanzer in 9-3-3.
First FOTM won 05/26/2017, FOTM wins/attempts: 4/8, first ROTM won 01/06/2018, ROTM wins/attempts: 1/5
First COTM won 08/10/2018, COTM wins: 3
Vulpes 2 years ago#7
Cure has SPR stat:
Cure (SPR 1) + thunder (0) = cure (SPR 2)
Cure (SPR 2 ) + cure (SPR 2) = cure (SPR 3)
Darkness (HP 20%) + cure (SPR 3) = Darkness (SPR 4) - SPR stat attached to Darkness
Darkness (SPR 4) + cure (SPR 2) = Darkness (SPR 5) ... and so on

also
Darkness (HP 20%) + cure (SPR 2) = Darkness (HP 30%)
Darkness (HP 30%) + cure (SPR 2) = Darkness (HP 40%) ... and so on

Power Attack (0) + Libra (ATK 1) = Power Attack (ATK 2)
Power Attack (ATK 2) + Cure (SPR 2) = Power Attack (ATK 3)
Power Attack (ATK 3) + Cure (SPR 2) = Power Attack (ATK 4) ... and so on
(same for Assault Twister and Vital Slash or any not magical Attack/Slash materia)

To boost VIT you need VIT UP materia; get it to VIT UP (3) and now you can attach the VIT stat to any other materia; same thing works for ATK UP (3)

Cure has SPR stat - fuse cure (spr 1) and thunder (no stat) - get cure (spr 2); fuse two cure (spr 2) together to get cure (spr 3); fuse any materia that has a lower stat than 2 or 20% with cure (spr 3) and get spr stat on that materia; it matters what order you put the materia in; put the desired materia outcome first and the one from which stat will transfer second

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