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User Info: EchelonThree

EchelonThree
11 years ago#61
Broken:
Colin, Grit, Hachi, Kanbei, Sensei

Colin, Grit, and Hachi are pretty clear-cut broken

Kanbei has 130/130 units that can basically wipe any other enemies off the map, even his 120% price is not enough to balance him. Sensei can spawn an obscene mech flood with his super-strong infantry, think along the lines of instant meatshield, just add COP.

Significantly Overpowered:
Von Bolt

Overpowered:
Jess, Sonja, Kindle, Sami, Sasha, Nell

Balanced:
Jake, Andy, Max, Olaf, Javier, Eagle, Hawke, Koal, Lash, Rachel

Underpowered:
Grimm, Drake, Adder, Flak, Jugger

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User Info: thecooltodd

thecooltodd
11 years ago#62
That looks goodish, except how did you distinguish overpowered from significantly overpowered?
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User Info: DTaeKim

DTaeKim
11 years ago#63
Is that from AWBW?
Dum spiro, spero.
As long as I breathe, I hope.
metroid composite 11 years ago#64
A CO should be designated as broken because of their inherent ability to defeat other COs on equal ground with incredible ease, not on their potential to compete against the other broken COs.

By and large it's the same thing, though. If you can compete with a Broken CO, you can probably compete with anyone (with the exception of some very particular anti-Grit scenarios). A while ago I had heard that Grit couldn't be defeated on Bean Island, which I confirmed against Colin and Hachi in practice matches against myself, but then found that he lost to Rachel (recall that AWDS has faster charging SCOPs than AWBW). Sure, Infantry Diamons work, but they also mean fewer meatshields, and Grit needs to clump Infantry and Artillery together. There was an open question about whether this was just Rachel countering Grit, but my tests also had her pulling victories against Colin and Hachi. It seems to be a safe bet that most other COs would get steamrolled against her...except Sensei because he really can afford to make an infantry diamond while also having a boatload of Infantry left over to shield his units. Using Sensei as another example, yes he counters Rachel on that map, and so you might think he'd do badly against non-Rachel people...but he doesn't--he's already being frequently placed in the "Broken" tier in this topic, and the map in question (still Bean Island) is covered with Mountains which can only be traversed by Infantry and Mech, where he will dominate.

Just in my experience, if you can beat one of the top COs for a certain map choice, you almost certainly are one of the top COs for that map. This caries over to tiers very nicely.
Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision
metroid composite 11 years ago#65
>>Why is Eagle balanced? His CO special by itself seems enough to make him overpowered
I'd say he is overpowered as well even on maps with no air. His ability to initiate hit-and-run raids on enemy entrenchment without fear of retaliation gives him a huge tactical advantage that's well worth the temporary downside.


No doubt AWBW has better maps, but in many of the the in-game AWDS 2v2 maps Eagle is very underwhelming. Most maps are reasonably small land based affairs with too many bases turning everything into an infantry spamfest. Most of the damage is done with Infantry to other Infantry, and this is a category where Eagle is terrible (even bottom tier people like Grimm and Lash would walk all over him in a pure-Infantry fight). Additionally, matchups are often won or lost on capturing and disruption of capturing that happens before a single CO power is used. Someone like Max benefits from more powerful Recons doing better Infantry disruption. Someone like Sasha is more likely to afford transports or disruption units one turn earlier than everyone else. But in a land map Eagle has no such advantage from his D2D.

Sure, he's good on AWBW where maps are better designed (i.e. where infantry don't make up 80% of your army). However bland D2D with CO powers that affect 20% of your army is seriously underwhelming. (Obviously air maps fix most of his problems, though, since he's no longer bland, and airports tend to mean a relatively large map).
Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision

User Info: EchelonThree

EchelonThree
11 years ago#66
That looks goodish, except how did you distinguish overpowered from significantly overpowered?

It's more of playing from experience, think of Von Bolt's SCOP that basically cripples the core of the enemy army along with 3 damage, which can allow you a free swipe at it, similar to lightning strike, as the enemy losing one turn is like you gaining one turn, and essentially have a gamebreaking advantage once your tank formation was pulverised. Throw that onto the fact that von bolt has 110/110 units.

Playing as Jess, who I as play fairly often and thus should be able to comment on, let's compare. Looking at AWBW statistics

Jess' vehicles cost 100% price, and are 110% OFFENSE ONLY, 100% defense, thought. Aside from that, all jess's units are at 90%. Jess has excellent CO powers though, giving extra movement, and extra attack on ground vehicles, refuelling applies for all units.

Now look at Von Bolt, he has 110/110 DAY TO DAY which basically allows him to completely outclass Jess.

Finally, picture this, as Jess, I'll use a mix of tanks and artillery, with infantry in front.

Jess has 90% infantry, allowing von bolt's infantry to gain the upper hand in a standoff when his units all push as a cohesive force, hold this thought.

What I like to do is to mix in a few MD tanks just behind my artillery and main (light) tank force, the MDs are there to basically crush enemy light tanks and to act as an impenetrable shield when the enemy is spamming light tanks at me to clean up.

Back to the formation, my MDs are scattered in the core of my formation, the infantry in front, backed by some artillery and light tanks.

Now picture that von bolt SCOPs, which is going to hit my formation, the MD tanks will crippled, as will my artillery. Von Bolt presses my infantry with his tanks And in one fell swoop my shielding lines fall.

Don't forget that units hit by Von Bolt's SCOP will be unable to attack or move the next turn.

Next, von bolt presses my (now disabled) artillery with his infantry, and even worse, moves his artillery into the range of my disabled artillery and tanks. Whilst his entire army presses on mine.

The next turn my entire force is disabled, I'm able to push back with my surviving tanks but am unable to break the lines My infantry are also useless against Von Bolts.

The following turn von bolt simply hits my arty with his tanks, knocks my tanks with his artillery, and surrounds my MDs with infantry.


This is how Von Bolt trashed me last time, it's not theory, and it's why I put Von Bolt as significantly overpowered
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User Info: DTaeKim

DTaeKim
11 years ago#67
This is where I have to disagree with your tiers, because you seemed to have used AWBW statistics.

First, Kanbei is not 130/130. He is 120/120, which makes him bearable D2D, but the faster charge rate means his powers are substantial. He isn't broken, but he's up there.

I find it hard to believe that Jake, Koal, and Lash are on the same level as Andy, Max, Olaf, Eagle, Hawke, and Rachel. Jake's substantial plains bonuses are limited to plains, Koal is Adder with a firepower bonus limited to roads, and Lash has been nerfed badly.

Olaf and Eagle benefit from the changes to their powers and the faster charge rate. Olaf can have 120/100 units every other day, and Eagle can get a double turn for a mere three stars.

Drake and Adder deserved to be moved up because of the faster charge rate as well. The faster charge rate means Drake can give the enemy mass damage quickly, and Adder can have 110/110 +1 movement units every other day thanks to his short bar.
Dum spiro, spero.
As long as I breathe, I hope.
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