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User Info: Raegur

Raegur
11 years ago#41
the way to take grit down is max or jess just build neotanks and fire away infantry die in one hit and so does any indirect unit

except for the fact that your 22000 G unit gets slaughtered by a 6000 G unit while you are trying to kill the infantry.
Hey! Mario! Don't tell me YOU have a secret collection of plush Peach dolls, too! ~ Goombella, Paper Mario 2

User Info: thecooltodd

thecooltodd
11 years ago#42
the way to take grit down is max or jess just build neotanks and fire away infantry die in one hit and so does any indirect unit

Yeah, but good luck getting that many NeoTanks, by then Grit will have (over) 3 Artillery for every ONE Neotank.
"Welcome to GameFAQs. Enjoy your stay." ~Blitzbolt
Rubik's Cube (3x3x3) solved in 20.87 seconds by me. ^_^

User Info: DTaeKim

DTaeKim
11 years ago#43
Why would I make B.Copters to counter your Anti-Air when I can use the B. Copter to just slaughter your indirects, while I make Tanks to slaughter your Anti-Air.

Making a swarm of infantry just to protect one artillery unit? That makes your Artillery cost 10000 G just to protect it, and 1 AA unit would make it cost 18000 G just to protect one artillery from a B. Copter. A B. Copter and a Tank cost about 16000 G, so the difference between our current costs are a 2000 G difference which isn't a lot.


B-copter + Tank = 16000 G
Anti-Air + Artillery + 2 Infantry = 16000 G

This is the raw information. As you can see, Grit will have more units on the ground.

Next, you have the statement that your Tank will maim Grit's Anti-Air and your B-copter will maim his Artillery.

A bland B-copter will deal 65% damage against an Artillery, dealing between 3600 and 4200 G worth of damage. Grit's Anti-Air attacks the B-copter for 84%, dealing 6400 G worth of damage. If you send that B-copter against his Artillery, you lose economically, unless you were using Hachi or Colin. Using Max, Eagle, or Sensei's B-copters will increase the economic damage to 4800 G at the very least, but you still take 6400 G of damage with the B-copter.

The second problem lies in the assumption you can hit Grit's Anti-Air with your Tank. More often than not, the Anti-Air will be located behind Grit's Infantry wall, which means your Tank needs to destroy the Infantry before accessing the Anti-Air, and that is why Grit is considered broken. In order to hit those Anti-Air units behind enemy lines, you have to penetrate the Infantry wall, and there are precious few units that can OHKO the Infantry. If you send your Tank against the wall, grit's wounded Artillery (assuming 2 to 4 HP) can deal between 2 and 3 HP of damage to the Tank.

At the end of battle, Grit will have one wounded Artillery, one wounded Infantry, one healthy Infantry, and one usable Anti-Air. On the opponent's end, you have a maimed B-copter and a wounded Tank.

Granted, the increased charge rates reduce Grit's domination D2D, but it is still there. Air units or not, Grit can still beat a good amount of COs not named Hachi or Colin. Sensei is still out there.
Dum spiro, spero.
As long as I breathe, I hope.

User Info: Raegur

Raegur
11 years ago#44
B-copter + Tank = 16000 G
Anti-Air + Artillery + 2 Infantry = 16000 G

This is the raw information. As you can see, Grit will have more units on the ground.


Yes, two useless infantry. It still makes your supposedly cheap costing artillery more expensive than the average CO's Rockets.

A bland B-copter will deal 65% damage against an Artillery, dealing between 3600 and 4200 G worth of damage. Grit's Anti-Air attacks the B-copter for 84%, dealing 6400 G worth of damage.

You assume the Anti-air can hit the B. Copter. With 2 Infantry, your Artillery with be too damaged to make much of a difference in battle.

If you send that B-copter against his Artillery, you lose economically, unless you were using Hachi or Colin.

No, you lose economically for making an Artillery cost as much as a Mid Tank.

Using Max, Eagle, or Sensei's B-copters will increase the economic damage to 4800 G at the very least, but you still take 6400 G of damage with the B-copter.

Except my B. Copter doesn't take any damage from the Anti-Air.

The second problem lies in the assumption you can hit Grit's Anti-Air with your Tank. More often than not, the Anti-Air will be located behind Grit's Infantry wall,

2 Infantry =/= a wall. Terrain would decides who wins. I win if their are mountains/Sea, since your artillery is only protected by 2 infantry, and my B. Copter can slaughter it while ignoring your Anti-Air. If it's an open area, I still win because my Tank can slaughter your anti-air, and my B. Copter can slaughter your Artillery.

which means your Tank needs to destroy the Infantry before accessing the Anti-Air, and that is why Grit is considered broken.

So infantry is why Grit is considered broken...LOL.

In order to hit those Anti-Air units behind enemy lines, you have to penetrate the Infantry wall, and there are precious few units that can OHKO the Infantry.

But when the Anti-Air can't do anything because of chokepoint terrain, it makes the Anti-Air useless.

If you send your Tank against the wall, grit's wounded Artillery (assuming 2 to 4 HP) can deal between 2 and 3 HP of damage to the Tank.

7 HP tanks are strong enough. It's not like either of us won't have support.

At the end of battle, Grit will have one wounded Artillery, one wounded Infantry, one healthy Infantry, and one usable Anti-Air. On the opponent's end, you have a maimed B-copter and a wounded Tank.

Actually, I have a healthy B. Copter, and a 7-8 HP tank, which is still a worthwhile unit.

Granted, the increased charge rates reduce Grit's domination D2D, but it is still there. Air units or not, Grit can still beat a good amount of COs not named Hachi or Colin. Sensei is still out there.

Grit is decent, but he isn't the god a lot of people seem to make him out to be, and he is not broken. If there are no decent chokepoints, Grit gets beat, bad. Grit is only somewhat difficult to deal with if there are big chokepoints, and no air units, otherwise, he's pretty subpar, with weak Tanks, weak airforce, and weak subs and cruisers (lol navy units)
Hey! Mario! Don't tell me YOU have a secret collection of plush Peach dolls, too! ~ Goombella, Paper Mario 2

User Info: darkfire9430

darkfire9430
11 years ago#45
Anzar, I get the impression that you don't play much against humans. You seem to be oblivious to:

1) Infantry as meat-shields, which is pretty much a standard human tactic.
2) Clustering units together. A Grit player won't have artillery and infantry randomly dispersed through the map; he'll have them right next to each other, where each artillery can support the other and they can combine their infantry units into a protective wall. That's where "the infantry wall" comes from.
3) While doing your damage calculations, if you're rolling the cost of the AA into the cost of the artillery, you need to also roll in the ground unit you're protecting into the cost of the copter. If all you're building is copters, Grit won't build (many) artillery; he'll just build AAs (which are 1000 cheaper and completely dominate copters) with a couple missiles thrown in. Once Grit has a couple missiles (with meat shields) in place, it's almost impossible to dislodge him with air units. Bombers might be able to do it (since they can OHKO infantry), but those are some expensive units you need to dislodge substantially cheaper ones. And they'll get maimed by the AAs in the counter-attack.

Just go to AWBW and challenge someone playing Grit (and don't pick Colin or Hachi). You'll get schooled five ways from Sunday, and *finally* learn why Grit is considered so broken.

User Info: DTaeKim

DTaeKim
11 years ago#46
I refuse to drag myself into this because you are making far more assumptions than I am and stacking the odds against Grit on purpose.

1) If the B-copter can hit your Artillery, I can hit your B-copter. I can move the Artillery and hit your B-copter with the Anti-Air.

2) The presence of two Infantry makes it more difficult for your Tank to access my units behind the Infantry wall.

3) In a bubble, where you manipulate the terrain to your advantage, yes, you can make Grit beatable. Reality dictates otherwise. Grit outnumbers you and his Artillery will push you back consistently.

I will use this picture, again, to illustrate the potential for Grit. Yes, Andy and Jess were used in this battle, but the same strategy applies to Grit.

http://www.warsworldnews.com/index.php?page=olafschair/2006-10-04.php

I'm also going to point this topic out, because I'm hearing the same old arguments again and again. After a few years, you get jaded.

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=589391&topic=39358935
Dum spiro, spero.
As long as I breathe, I hope.

User Info: thecooltodd

thecooltodd
11 years ago#47
Why would I make B.Copters to counter your Anti-Air when I can use the B. Copter to just slaughter your indirects, while I make Tanks to slaughter your Anti-Air.

*sigh*

Do you know what the capture phase is? It's in the beginning of the game where both players build infantry like crazy in order to capture as many cities/bases/etc as possible. From the capture phase, I will have enough infantry to block out your B-copters from directly attacking my Artillery.

You'd have to get the missle there in time first, then wait a day, even then, you made something more expensive that can easily be destroyed by a B. Copter, since I can get in range, or get in your Blind spot.

Except I would buy Missiles before you buy your Copter.

No, I don't get hit by your missles, and then slaughter them, you lose 12000 G. Surrounding your missle with infantry makes your loss even more dreadful.

Good luck with that.
Problem#1 - Grit's range of his Missiles is 6, the same amount of squares a B-copter can move. That means you'd have to be right at the edge or my range, and then next turn I simply advance my Missiles and your Copter may try to rush it (while it is surrounded with it's defenses) or retreat.
Problem #2 - Building on from the first problem, I just use my COP and your B-copter is history.
Problem #3 - All of this is assuming that I'm giving you chance and not buying any Anti-Air. Don't forget Anti-Air is cheaper than Copters.
Problem #4 - What happens to you once I clump my Artillery around my Missiles? You have to break through my Artillery (which is very unlikely a Copter can OHKO them) first.
Problem #5 - What happens if Missiles cover Missiles?

Making a swarm of infantry just to protect one artillery unit? That makes your Artillery cost 10000 G just to protect it, and 1 AA unit would make it cost 18000 G just to protect one artillery from a B. Copter. A B. Copter and a Tank cost about 16000 G, so the difference between our current costs are a 2000 G difference which isn't a lot.

By the time I average over 6000G per base, I'll most likely be buying an Artillery on a base every turn and just forgetting about Infantry. By doing so, I'll be protecting Artillery with Artillery. Your tank damages one of my Artillery (for less than 6000G worth of damage) and then I'll destroy it next turn.

An 18000 G artillery isn't what I would call good.

It is once you see it do more than 18000G of damage.
"Welcome to GameFAQs. Enjoy your stay." ~Blitzbolt
Rubik's Cube (3x3x3) solved in 20.87 seconds by me. ^_^

User Info: thecooltodd

thecooltodd
11 years ago#48
No, you lose economically for making an Artillery cost as much as a Mid Tank.

Wrong. An Anti-Air is completely different from an Artillery, and why would I buy 1 Anti-Air for every Artillery?

Except my B. Copter doesn't take any damage from the Anti-Air.

What makes you so sure?

2 Infantry =/= a wall. Terrain would decides who wins. I win if their are mountains/Sea, since your artillery is only protected by 2 infantry, and my B. Copter can slaughter it while ignoring your Anti-Air. If it's an open area, I still win because my Tank can slaughter your anti-air, and my B. Copter can slaughter your Artillery.

*sigh* Alright, pick a map where you think you have the advantage and I'll battle you already.

So infantry is why Grit is considered broken...LOL.

LOL NO. Infantry are broken in there own little way.

But when the Anti-Air can't do anything because of chokepoint terrain, it makes the Anti-Air useless.

I don't need Anti-Air, bring it.

7 HP tanks are strong enough. It's not like either of us won't have support.

That's assuming the unlikely event where I don't have any other Artillery shooting you down.

Actually, I have a healthy B. Copter, and a 7-8 HP tank, which is still a worthwhile unit.

To what? Slightly damage my Artillery?

Grit is decent, but he isn't the god a lot of people seem to make him out to be, and he is not broken. If there are no decent chokepoints, Grit gets beat, bad. Grit is only somewhat difficult to deal with if there are big chokepoints, and no air units, otherwise, he's pretty subpar, with weak Tanks, weak airforce, and weak subs and cruisers (lol navy units)

You're really asking for it. PICK A MAP NOW!!! Pick a map with NO chokepoints and AS MUCH TERRAIN ADVANTAGE AS YOU WANT.
"Welcome to GameFAQs. Enjoy your stay." ~Blitzbolt
Rubik's Cube (3x3x3) solved in 20.87 seconds by me. ^_^

User Info: thecooltodd

thecooltodd
11 years ago#49
Anzar, pick a map from here:
http://awbw.amarriner.com/categories.php?categories_id=10
All of them are A-rank quality so all of them are fair. I'll even let you pick what army you want, I don't care. I'll battle you.

And if you never registered for AWBW it's very simple.
http://awbw.amarriner.com/register.php
You don't even need to confirm password, no excuses. And if you're excuse is that you're computer runs it slow, this computer runs it slower and I still want to battle you.
"Welcome to GameFAQs. Enjoy your stay." ~Blitzbolt
Rubik's Cube (3x3x3) solved in 20.87 seconds by me. ^_^

User Info: thecooltodd

thecooltodd
11 years ago#50
I refuse to drag myself into this because you are making far more assumptions than I am and stacking the odds against Grit on purpose.

I agree. Enough theoretical and prove your skill by actually battling.

Does anyone still have the battle where FHQ battled someone thinking he could beat Grit?
"Welcome to GameFAQs. Enjoy your stay." ~Blitzbolt
Rubik's Cube (3x3x3) solved in 20.87 seconds by me. ^_^
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