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User Info: XTGeminiman

XTGeminiman
2 months ago#1
What games on the NES do you consider perfect, by which I mean, you would change essentially nothing and would make no improvements when taking the specifications of the time into consideration.

Maybe we'll get a lot of the same titles if everyone defines perfect in the same way but for me, I think two games are perfect:

The Legend of Zelda: Out of Nintendo's first three adventure games, this one is flawless IMO. The marketing was great with the gold cartridge. The presentation is amazing for its time with Link's steps into a cave and not knowing whether you're about to enter a dungeon or something else only to see the screen pan is still an effect that blows my mind. The sense of adventure hasn't been topped TO THIS DAY regardless of specifications... Zelda is the ultimate non-linear game and the sense of acccomplishment is much more rewarding when you blow a rock to reveal a cave as opposed to just seeing a crack in the wall.

Miyamoto wanted us to socialize and discuss the secrets in this game and used the instruction manual and other techniques to reveal the game but that was it. The rest was up to you and this game didn't do you any favors. LoZ is perfect.

Super Mario Bros. 3: The definitive platform game. I guess I can sort of understand those who think SMW is the better game but they're wrong. Considering the limitations, it's amazing that Nintendo crammed as many levels into this game as they did and there's way more variety to the levels as opposed to SMW, which is pretty phenomenal when you think about it.

The themes of each world and the variety set the precedent for every platformer since. The levels are innovative and several of them are basically puzzles, which further enhances the gameplay. The physics and level design are executed flawlessly to give the player the freedom to perform some pretty complex maneuvers. SMB3 is clearly Nintendo's magnum opus on the NES and even with all the hype, they managed to outdo themselves.
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PSN: XTGeminiman

User Info: Zenoth

Zenoth
2 months ago#2
To be honest, the NES' top 100 list does a pretty good job pointing at the best ones (truly). It's cliché and sometimes considered too generic to refer to such lists out there. But in this case, it's very representative of which games on the NES were amazing.

Out of them (and of course 100 is a lot) you only have to look at around the top 5 to 10 and pick any one of them and it wouldn't be exaggerated at all to say that they were all 'perfect' for their own good reasons (even considering the technical limitations of the system).

Now, "perfection" is ultimately still just opinion mostly, at least for us gamers (or, most of us anyway). However, for game developers they can probably understand way more from 'behind the curtain' and point at which games truly did push the system's capabilities while being actual masterpiece of video gaming (and for the system specifically).

For me, a game's 'Virtual Perfection' (it's the way I like to put it) is a multi-layered combination of different aspects that all were passionately, professionally produced, then balanced, tested and polished (whenever necessary). That would include the following:

- Presentation (not just within the game such as the main menu, but it also includes things from the User Interface to the actual Cartridge's label art and/or Retail Box's cover art as well as the description of the game on the back side, etc; anything from how the game is perceived prior to playing it to how it is seen while playing it)
- Soundtrack (speaks for itself)
- Sound design (outside of actual music, how is the sound? Enough 'clues'? Annoying repetitions or loops over time? Etc)
- Gameplay (essentially, devs would test and go "Is this fun?", if they truly felt it; that's gameplay done right)
- Balance (there's a lot here, even for more nuanced aspects such as overall game's length and complexity; but basically it can be summed up as "Is it too hard or too easy? If so, is that for good or bad reasons?")
- Polish / Attention to Detail (this could be included maybe within the "Gameplay / Fun" department but I truly think this one has to be distinguished since most capable dev teams would have had to do what amounts to a "Polishing / Quality Pass" after the overall gameplay mechanics and difficulty balance adjustments were done; Polish can also be technical when it comes to Memory management, Frame Rate slow downs / Optimizations, etc)

Now there's other few things here and there that I might consider to determine if a game (for me) is "virtually perfect" or not, but the main points I often go back to I mentioned above.

Now with all this said, for me (and I know of course for many out there) on the NES I would consider the following games to be perfect:

- SMB3.

SMB1 is more iconic and important to the actual industry, but everything else is better and was catapulted to 9000 with SMB3; albeit some do argue that the 'stickier physics' / less "moon gravity feel" / control responsiveness of SMB1 was better, and that SMB1 was also 'faster'; but that to me is a matter of personal preference rather than being enough of (even if true) arguments to "remove" SMB3 from its #1 position on the system in my eyes. Then again, it is - ultimately - still subjective.

- Metroid

There would be a lot to talk about but I'm running our of characters limit for the post lol. Essentially this, for me, comes down to being the best 'atmospheric' game in the whole 8-bit era. It is a bold claim, but it's also my preference. There is nothing I ever played on any 8-bit system back then or more recently even going back with retrospectives in mind that I can see going anywhere near Metroid for the general game's atmosphere it provides. It truly felt... very alien of a game, like no others.

Those two, for me, are the NES' respective #1s (both of them, none are #2).
(edited 2 months ago)

User Info: uffbulle

uffbulle
2 months ago#3
Literally none, though a few come fairly close.

Super Mario Bros. 3
Gun. Nac – Compile
Duck Tales 2 – Capcom
Metal Storm – Irem
Adventures of Lolo 2

Those early nintendo games though? Absolutely not.
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User Info: HighwayPilot

HighwayPilot
2 months ago#4
Castlevania III
Zelda II
Batman
Ninja Gaiden II

User Info: Black_Crusher

Black_Crusher
2 months ago#5
XTGeminiman posted...
What games on the NES do you consider perfect, by which I mean, you would change essentially nothing and would make no improvements when taking the specifications of the time into consideration.

Maybe we'll get a lot of the same titles if everyone defines perfect in the same way but for me, I think two games are perfect:

The Legend of Zelda: Out of Nintendo's first three adventure games, this one is flawless IMO. The marketing was great with the gold cartridge. The presentation is amazing for its time with Link's steps into a cave and not knowing whether you're about to enter a dungeon or something else only to see the screen pan is still an effect that blows my mind. The sense of adventure hasn't been topped TO THIS DAY regardless of specifications... Zelda is the ultimate non-linear game and the sense of acccomplishment is much more rewarding when you blow a rock to reveal a cave as opposed to just seeing a crack in the wall.

Miyamoto wanted us to socialize and discuss the secrets in this game and used the instruction manual and other techniques to reveal the game but that was it. The rest was up to you and this game didn't do you any favors. LoZ is perfect.

Super Mario Bros. 3: The definitive platform game. I guess I can sort of understand those who think SMW is the better game but they're wrong. Considering the limitations, it's amazing that Nintendo crammed as many levels into this game as they did and there's way more variety to the levels as opposed to SMW, which is pretty phenomenal when you think about it.

The themes of each world and the variety set the precedent for every platformer since. The levels are innovative and several of them are basically puzzles, which further enhances the gameplay. The physics and level design are executed flawlessly to give the player the freedom to perform some pretty complex maneuvers. SMB3 is clearly Nintendo's magnum opus on the NES and even with all the hype, they managed to outdo themselves.


Zelda 1 might be pretty close to being perfect, but I think the argument that SMB3 doesn't have any way to save or continue is something that should've really been added. You didn't list it but this is also my main problem with Blaster Master- It's just too long to not have a way to quit and continue.
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User Info: Black_Crusher

Black_Crusher
2 months ago#6
uffbulle posted...
Literally none, though a few come fairly close.


Yeah, there are things that could be improved upon in every game I can think of offhand. They can be REALLY good, but perfection is a strong word.

Some of my favorites:

Final Fantasy- Best RPG on the system, but littered with bugs.
Crystalis- Amazing action RPG, has some annoying things like damage immune bosses if you're too low a level
Blaster Master- Mentioned this already but no save or password on a game this size is a big no-no

And some others that need work:

Ghosts N' Goblins- Perhaps the NES's biggest troll job, you have to go through this entire impossible s*** show twice to actually win it.
Wizards & Warriors- Infintie continues where you begin exactly where you left off when you died castrates what would otherwise be a fun and challenging game.

And personally I love Metroid but I can see where somebody who thought the rooms looking too 'same-y' would have a good argument on their hands.
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User Info: Da Dood

Da Dood
2 months ago#7
I don’t think there are any perfect games on NES (or any system, I guess). I know these topics are just a fun exercise anyway, so don’t get me wrong.

Mega Man 3 is my favorite game and I can think of at least a dozen things I’d change about it. The arsenal, the lag, annoying control bugs like how you can’t fire after turning/landing, fortress level design...

Super Mario Bros. 3 is a platform masterpiece, but there’s some stuff I wish were different about it. Being able to save would make me want to replay it more often, because as it is, I either have to do a short playthrough where half of it is spent in autoscroller levels (warp%), or I have to dedicate 4 or 5 hours to see everything in one sitting. All-Stars fixed that, but I’d still prefer if the original gave us the option.

Tetris is probably as close to a perfect videogame as we’ll get. I personally don’t play it all that much, though, so I can’t consider it a favorite.
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User Info: strikezone1

strikezone1
2 months ago#8
Perfect is a strong word. I'm with Da Dood (and others), I don't know that there are any perfect games, but it's totally subjective. From the "you wouldn't change anything" standpoint, there are a lot of games I wouldn't change. Good, bad, or mediocre, I appreciate each game for what they are and the different elements they offer... graphical styles, play mechanics, sounds, and so on.

Many will cling to the classics as perfect, for reasons I understand... But you can even find flaws in those games. SMB3 for being as long of a game as it is, doesn't offer a password system or battery save. Instead if you want to pick right up at a later level, the game forces you to grab 2 secret warp whistles... Zelda 1 makes you burn every bush and push every rock in order to locate some secrets, which some people might find tedious.
(edited 2 months ago)

User Info: 2001mark

2001mark
2 months ago#9
Super Mario Bros. 3
RBI Baseball
Super Tecmo Bowl

User Info: uffbulle

uffbulle
2 months ago#10
Black_Crusher posted...
Crystalis- Amazing action RPG, has some annoying things like damage immune bosses if you're too low a level


There are mods that change this and a few others things so counting those, maybe I would mention this one too; nothing else about it sticks out in my memory as that bad right now.
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(edited 2 months ago)
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