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  3. Apparently a lot of developers are unhappy with how they're treated on steam.

User Info: arleas

arleas
3 months ago#1
https://www.fortressofdoors.com/operation-tell-valve-all-the-things-3-0/

I guess Valve is no better than any of the other big fat-cat mega corporations. At least they don't have to worry about upsetting shareholders. If there's any reason why the Epic store is going to grow fast, it'll be stuff like this.

Stuff like: the "October Bug" which basically is Valve's version of the youtube algorithm that randomly decides who gets f***ed over this week/month/quarter, how the steam store has zero curation (but then some of what they mean by curation is "kick all my competition off the store"), how valve is utter s*** at communication, and apparently developers get punished for dealing with other storefronts despite what Gaben says...

I mean, If they're going to be punished on steam for working with Epic, then it makes sense to just pull your s*** off of steam entirely.

There's some other issues, but really, it seems to me like Valve has grown too big to not have someone hired to look at games and evaluate their worth to the store, and to act as liaisons to the developers. Since Epic waited till the Christmas season to get their store started up, they had better put on one hell of a sale to draw attention away from Steam.

"People used to stick with Valve because they honestly felt it was the best platform for both customers and developers. Now they stick with Valve because of power. And the second they have an alternative, they will jump ship."

So yeah, we may be witnessing the birth of a revolution. (Or maybe at least things will be shaken up enough to make Valve sit up and pay attention for a change).
http://steamsignature.com/profile/english/76561197969913402.png http://i.imgur.com/VHKOxqN.png

User Info: Fate8

Fate8
3 months ago#2
Developers have been whining about the fact that being on steam used to pretty much guarantee success but now steam is so chalk full of stuff that it isn't the gold rush it first was which is pretty stupid. The future era is going to be a dozen different game launchers and a service like discord which connects them all together and allows you to launch all your games from one place.
Thats because you touch yourself at night.

User Info: unknown_VS

unknown_VS
3 months ago#3
If this leads to clear categorization for NAME, GENRE, MANUFACTURER I'm all for it. But it probably won't because that would involve massive investments in manpower and Steam clearly has no interest in that.

Also I'm very unhappy about Developers on Steam also, they often lie, don't answer questions, sometimes don't even have a presence and have the power to delete any content of legitimate customers with legitimate complaints, they also are allowed to moderate their own discussion boards which results in them being filled with toxic corporate ballwashers making these "discussion" boards pretty much unusable and utterly useless 99% of the time.
J-Pop

User Info: arleas

arleas
3 months ago#4
Fate8 posted...
Developers have been whining about the fact that being on steam used to pretty much guarantee success but now steam is so chalk full of stuff that it isn't the gold rush it first was which is pretty stupid


Well you have to admit that being at the mercy of an "algorithm" sucks, especially since you can be doing everything correctly and still get f***ed over just because someone tweaked some code. Imagine Gamefaqs had an algorithm to determine which posts were visible for people to read and respond to. At first you'd be like "All right! Finally the trolls will be wiped off the front page!" but then someone decides that if you're not posting in a very specific manner, you're on the list to get removed. Then even if you haven't done anything wrong, nobody sees anything you post. I imagine it's kinda like that, only worse because money is involved. I don't think AI is to a point yet where we can just throw all the steam store data at them and let them decide which games should be on the store page quite yet.

unknown_VS posted...
If this leads to clear categorization for NAME, GENRE, MANUFACTURER I'm all for it. But it probably won't because that would involve massive investments in manpower and Steam clearly has no interest in that.


In the linked article, someone suggested that there should be two storefronts. A "Firehose" where anything goes, and another where the titles are curated and held to a higher standard. That way if you wanted to swim in the sewer and look for treasure, you're free to do so, but if you'd rather have the "quality experience" you could head over to Club Gaben... or something. It's not a totally bad idea. Charge extra to be on the Curated list and have that extra fee go towards paying the people who will do the job...hell you could maybe even hire some regular gamer types to do it.

Fate8 posted...
The future era is going to be a dozen different game launchers and a service like discord which connects them all together and allows you to launch all your games from one place.

I'm not opposed to that either...I mean, I used to hate the idea of a thousand and one launchers, but we're going to wind up there sooner or later anyway, so might as well get the nexus launcher that handles everything as a front end for all the other game clients. Just make each one have a "minimal footprint mode" so I don't have to have a ton of bloat...or have them only start up and run once I decide to play a game on that client.
http://steamsignature.com/profile/english/76561197969913402.png http://i.imgur.com/VHKOxqN.png

User Info: unknown_VS

unknown_VS
3 months ago#5
Well my issue really isn't "curating" more categorization, it's too complicated, ill thought out and simply not really categorized at all, I've shown this in the past already, you should just be able to look for name of publisher / developer, even if it's just the first letter > then for GENRE .
Like if you look for RPG, you really only get RPGs, no shooters, no nothing...

This is currently not possible afaik because everything is categorized with "user created tags" which blurs everything together.

They'd need someone to sit down and put every game in a clear category. Shooters, RPG, VN, etc.

If something is a "RPG shooter" it goes in a "mixed" category and *also* into each of the other categories, Shooter and RPG.

I think the problem is they have nobody doing this and rely indeed on "community tags" instead (which are created by users and as such are obviously rather meaningless)
J-Pop

User Info: kbe2k2

kbe2k2
3 months ago#6
Valve, Epic, EA, Ubisoft, Blizzard and Bethesda all have their own launchers now... just lovely...

User Info: unknown_VS

unknown_VS
3 months ago#7
arleas posted...
In the linked article, someone suggested that there should be two storefronts. A "Firehose" where anything goes, and another where the titles are curated and held to a higher standard. That way if you wanted to swim in the sewer and look for treasure, you're free to do so, but if you'd rather have the "quality experience" you could head over to Club Gaben... or something. It's not a totally bad idea. Charge extra to be on the Curated list and have that extra fee go towards paying the people who will do the job...hell you could maybe even hire some regular gamer types to do it.

This wouldn't work either, most people would use the "firehouse" and the issue of no real categorization would remain.

Just make tags optional, GENRE, NAME, PUBLISHER mandatory, have a working search function and most issues would be solved.

Like, I mean, you currently can't just search for a publisher or genre, the search function will only look for GAME names and even that is buggy.

I showed this in the past with examples, Amazon for example doesn't have this issue, you can type either what you're looking for, "cables" for example, or the brand-name if you know it, it works both ways and is clearly categorized.

And I'd wager Amazon has more products than Steam...
J-Pop

User Info: ElDudorino

ElDudorino
3 months ago#8
A dozen storefronts doesn't *have* to mean a dozen launchers. One of the things I hate about Steam is the way they try to get you to do everything through their system, and it's a system that's caused me a lot of headaches over time. Given the choice, I always buy my games through GoG instead because with them you can just install it wherever you want, however you want, without having to deal with an added layer of software. If GoG can give you a storefront with no required launcher, then so can these other companies.

Granted, so far it looks like things are headed more in the direction of every store requiring their own launcher, which is bad times for gamers if we start getting 15 of them trying to load with Windows at startup. But then again, if enough of them come out and enough people b**** about it, that problem will go away. So far not very many people complain about the Steam service and in fact they actively go out of their way to have the Steam service running even when it doesn't have to be, so there hasn't really been an obvious reason for companies to avoid that route yet.

User Info: arleas

arleas
3 months ago#9
unknown_VS posted...
This is currently not possible afaik because everything is categorized with "user created tags" which blurs everything together.

I think initially people were interested in tagging games, but mostly joke tags or troll tags like tagging an anime themed game as "horror" or horror games as "family friendly". I asked for tags a long time ago but my idea was that you could tag your own library as you saw fit, and steam could see those tags and adjust them on their own for other people.

I figured by allowing people to tag their own stuff, then they'd tag them in ways that were useful rather than stupid jokes, and also Valve could still hire someone to review everything and just not add the few people trying to game the system. Instead they just turned it all over to people until they gamed the system so hard it was a joke, and now nobody gives a s***.

I hope the biggest lesson Valve learns out of all of this is that you can't just push every responsibility off to the users and maybe some important things need some oversight. Actually that's a very funny word to use in this case since oversight means both: a) watchful and responsible care and b) an inadvertent omission or error. Unfortunately we're getting more b and not enough a.

unknown_VS posted...
They'd need someone to sit down and put every game in a clear category. Shooters, RPG, VN, etc.


Ideally, this would be done when the game was submitted to the store and someone would just take a few minutes to verify that it's what it says on the tin (as the saying goes) and that would be that. I'm sure that would also be up to being gamed by someone...as in they make an "RPG" that starts off just like you'd expect and then 20-30 minutes of play later you're actually playing something completely different.

unknown_VS posted...
If something is a "RPG shooter" it goes in a "mixed" category and *also* into each of the other categories, Shooter and RPG.

But then you'd see the game without knowing it's mixed and complain that they got peanut butter in your chocolate or chocolate in your peanut butter. (no cookies for recognizing the reference, buy your own damn cookies)... There's too many games with RPG elements anyway so that would quickly become a useless genre marker. You'd have to just come up with a better name for it even if it's just "RPG shooter hybrid".

unknown_VS posted...
I think the problem is they have nobody doing this and rely indeed on "community tags" instead (which are created by users and as such are obviously rather meaningless)


In a perfect world, everyone would do what they could to make it a better place and we'd all be better off for it. In reality though, some groups of people will conspire to make stuff happen just because they can, regardless of whether it's useful or not.
http://steamsignature.com/profile/english/76561197969913402.png http://i.imgur.com/VHKOxqN.png

User Info: arleas

arleas
3 months ago#10
ElDudorino posted...
If GoG can give you a storefront with no required launcher, then so can these other companies.

Gog aims to give you DRM free games, so having no launcher is a no brainer. Who needs extra software when there's supposed to be no DRM? Well Steam has DRM (CEG is steam's DRM, before someone tries the "Steam IS DRM" argument) so they have to have a launcher of some sort to ensure that the right person is logged in and has access to play those games. I'd say for the DRM free games sold on steam though, they should probably make it easier to play those without needing the client running.

ElDudorino posted...
bad times for gamers if we start getting 15 of them trying to load with Windows at startup. But then again, if enough of them come out and enough people b**** about it, that problem will go away. So far not very many people complain about the Steam service and in fact they actively go out of their way to have the Steam service running even when it doesn't have to be, so there hasn't really been an obvious reason for companies to avoid that route yet.


The only reason to have steam running all the time is for the social aspect. If your store doesn't HAVE a social aspect to it, then there's no real reason to leave it running unless you're playing a game. If steam didn't have forums, activity feeds with your friends all able to make status posts like it's a gaming version of Facebook or something, then I would expect more people to complain.
http://steamsignature.com/profile/english/76561197969913402.png http://i.imgur.com/VHKOxqN.png
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