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User Info: Orestes417

Orestes417
3 months ago#31
32x2z posted...
What on earth are these files composed of it it's zero? Is it malware? Is it personal data?


I'm assuming they aren't actually zero bytes. More like small enough to finish downloading before the actual size registers
Please keep talking so we can all pretend that our problems are just in our heads.

User Info: unknown_VS

unknown_VS
3 months ago#32
Orestes417 posted...
32x2z posted...
What on earth are these files composed of it it's zero? Is it malware? Is it personal data?


I'm assuming they aren't actually zero bytes. More like small enough to finish downloading before the actual size registers


Honestly, it's probably just a bug / glitch. (Besides this would really be awful programming, if you dl a few kb in Chrome or something it immediately tells you how many, even if it's just 1 or 2 kb...)

Interestingly I can also trigger these "updates" btw

Go to settings > download > download server > change download server > restart Steam

99% I get "update required" (but not really because 0kb lol)
J-Pop

User Info: vlado_e

vlado_e
3 months ago#33
32x2z posted...
What on earth are these files composed of it it's zero? Is it malware? Is it personal data?

A perfectly logical chain of though - it's zero bytes, therefore it's personal data!

...it could be anything. As I said, the real size might actually be 1KB but because the update finishes before it can even measure the total size, that information is not revised.

Also, it could be that the update is measured as a diff. It's a bit strange but not too much - diffs work great with text files, not with binary ones. A diff is just the difference between two files, so if you added three lines of text, you have that information, you don't re-send the entire file. The "problem" comes if you've changed a line let's say you have a config file with a line that reads state=on and you change that to state=off - a diff expresses that as you removing the line state=on and adding a new line in it's place state=off - so if you measure the change delta in lines, it's zero because you have -1 and +1 line. In terms of bytes, it'd be +1 byte. That's not really a "problem" but can come off with weird measurements. For example, if you change off -> on it turns out that the change delta is -1 bytes. In this case, if you want to calculate an update size and express it in terms of is how much space it would take on the hard drive, then what do you even write? The update will reduce your game size? That makes no sense. You could also just say what the transfer size is, at which point it's going to be miniscule - using the UNIX diff it would be about two times the length of the changed line and since it's a text file, it could be further compressed for Internet transfer. Another diff algorithm can have even smaller delta footprint and/or a smaller compressed footprint of the delta.

Then we get to folders - if a directory is changed, then you can have a zero size delta for it - be it with diff or something else. How else are you going to express a change that provides no modification to the data on the disk? A folder might be removed (say, a temp one that turns out is unneeded) or maybe it can have its attributes changed. If either of these happens, then the size of the data remains the same and the transfer is just the instructions about what to change. These can be so extremely small as to not even be measurable. Pretty much literally - consider the act of checking for an update - do you measure the information send and received for the check itself? A directory change instruction could even be embedded as part of that request/response, so you don't even "download" anything extra on top of the check.

But sure, it's perhaps personal data. Which you receive, for some reason. And somehow that's the first logical conclusion that comes up...
We do what we must / because we can. / For the good of all of us. / Except the ones who are dead.

User Info: Orestes417

Orestes417
3 months ago#34
unknown_VS posted...
Orestes417 posted...
32x2z posted...
What on earth are these files composed of it it's zero? Is it malware? Is it personal data?


I'm assuming they aren't actually zero bytes. More like small enough to finish downloading before the actual size registers


Honestly, it's probably just a bug / glitch. (Besides this would really be awful programming, if you dl a few kb in Chrome or something it immediately tells you how many, even if it's just 1 or 2 kb...)

Interestingly I can also trigger these "updates" btw

Go to settings > download > download server > change download server > restart Steam

99% I get "update required" (but not really because 0kb lol)


Y'know. That makes me wonder if it's server list updates.
Please keep talking so we can all pretend that our problems are just in our heads.

User Info: arleas

arleas
3 months ago#35
unknown_VS posted...
Interestingly I can also trigger these "updates" btw

Go to settings > download > download server > change download server > restart Steam

99% I get "update required" (but not really because 0kb lol)

See, that sounds to me like it's just the server establishing which of your games are up to date.
Orestes417 posted...
Y'know. That makes me wonder if it's server list updates.


Yeah, this...
vlado_e posted...
.it could be anything. As I said, the real size might actually be 1KB but because the update finishes before it can even measure the total size, that information is not revised.


Well maybe then someone could use some kind of network traffic monitor to see the actual size transmitted? It's probably something like a quick checksum verification or something.
http://steamsignature.com/profile/english/76561197969913402.png http://i.imgur.com/VHKOxqN.png

User Info: vlado_e

vlado_e
3 months ago#36
arleas posted...
Well maybe then someone could use some kind of network traffic monitor to see the actual size transmitted? It's probably something like a quick checksum verification or something.

Yeah, it's most likely something inconsequential like that. But I can't really be bothered to check this and post results. The people who are freaking over "but what if it's malware??!!!ONE!!11?" aren't going to do any actual investigation, either, because it gets in the way of wild baseless speculation. And even if I did check and posted results, they'd just ignore them anyway.

Hey, I'd even throw one extra thing to just show how ludicrous the "problem" with zero byte updates is - I just had to move a game from one drive to another and when I did, I got a zero byte update in my download history. I would guess that internally, Steam did an OS file move, then followed it with an install procedure which resulted in a download request but since it already had all files, there was nothing to get from the server. You get a similar thing if you do the same thing manually - copy the game files into a Steam Library folder then hit Install. It's how you get Steam to recognise that you have the game ready, if you want to copy it from one machine to another to avoid a download.
We do what we must / because we can. / For the good of all of us. / Except the ones who are dead.

User Info: unknown_VS

unknown_VS
3 months ago#37
vlado_e posted...
arleas posted...
Well maybe then someone could use some kind of network traffic monitor to see the actual size transmitted? It's probably something like a quick checksum verification or something.

Yeah, it's most likely something inconsequential like that. But I can't really be bothered to check this and post results. The people who are freaking over "but what if it's malware??!!!ONE!!11?" aren't going to do any actual investigation, either, because it gets in the way of wild baseless speculation. And even if I did check and posted results, they'd just ignore them anyway.

Hey, I'd even throw one extra thing to just show how ludicrous the "problem" with zero byte updates is - I just had to move a game from one drive to another and when I did, I got a zero byte update in my download history. I would guess that internally, Steam did an OS file move, then followed it with an install procedure which resulted in a download request but since it already had all files, there was nothing to get from the server. You get a similar thing if you do the same thing manually - copy the game files into a Steam Library folder then hit Install. It's how you get Steam to recognise that you have the game ready, if you want to copy it from one machine to another to avoid a download.

Honestly those abstruse *theories* make me only more suspicious, ESPECIALLY because Steam started to acting weird pretty much at the same time I started getting these "updates" like a month ago (never got a single "0kb update" before)

Best case this is one of the many bugs in the Steam client.

Worst case it's indeed some malware / trojan attempt.

Or anything in between hah.

But IT'S NOT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING because that makes zero sense and defies all logic, sorry.

BTW this might be coincidence but these updates started happening right after I used Steam console... to download something from their depot, BUT the update wasn't for that game, it was for another game entirely. And even though I let it update once or twice it still keeps telling me "update required"... (there is no update, checked Steam db)

I mean it really looks like a bug, I hope they fix it, but that's doubtful as other people are getting these updates since years...

Well, I'll definitely ask these non support Steam guys and report back (if I get answers!)
J-Pop

User Info: arleas

arleas
3 months ago#38
unknown_VS posted...
BTW this might be coincidence

nope, definitely a conspiracy. Coincidences? I don't believe in them.

You're being hacked, probably right now. You had best unplug the internet and hide in a dark corner of the closet and hope the jackbooted thugs from the black helicopters don't fly in and kidnap you for almost finding out their secrets....secrets that don't exist btw. I'm totally joking helicopter guys so don't come after me...if you existed that is.. ha ha...ha.... ha ha.😄
http://steamsignature.com/profile/english/76561197969913402.png http://i.imgur.com/VHKOxqN.png

User Info: unknown_VS

unknown_VS
3 months ago#39
arleas posted...
Coincidences? I don't believe in them.

Same! Coincidences, luck... doesnt exist, only something humans came up with to explain things they can't understand (I'm serious, in astro / quantum physics it's pretty clear that these things don't exist, everything has a cause and a reason... of course you could still construct something like luck withing these rules, but in reality it just doesn't exist)

Also you (again?) missed that I said it's probably a bug, it makes the most sense to me, but it's very annoying and not knowing if it's really a bug or a "Steam rootkit" or some s*** makes it even more annoying lol...
J-Pop

User Info: vlado_e

vlado_e
3 months ago#40
unknown_VS posted...
missed that I said it's probably a bug

No, it can't be. You already shot down several theories explaining it's a bug from different angles. So all we're left with is a secret malware that doesn't act or behave anything like a secret malware because it announces it's presence via a route it doesn't need to take at all. Can't be anything else.
We do what we must / because we can. / For the good of all of us. / Except the ones who are dead.
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