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User Info: Voxwik

Voxwik
8 months ago#21
Why exactly doesn't Conker's Bad Fur day count? It is literally a Matrix parody sequence with bullet time. If the topic is about a game play mechanic that exists for a large portion of the game at the least I can see how it's disqualified, but it was before Max Payne and specifically was a parody of The Matrix.

User Info: KamenRiderBlade

KamenRiderBlade
8 months ago#22
I think it's Max Payne
Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp 'Once Upon A Time in Mexico'

User Info: loki00_00

loki00_00
8 months ago#23
Max Payne is the first one who did it right.
That game still holds up.
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The cranky hermit 8 months ago#24
Voxwik posted...
Why exactly doesn't Conker's Bad Fur day count? It is literally a Matrix parody sequence with bullet time. If the topic is about a game play mechanic that exists for a large portion of the game at the least I can see how it's disqualified, but it was before Max Payne and specifically was a parody of The Matrix.

I don't see anyone claiming that it doesn't count. Maybe everyone saying Max Payne came first just isn't aware of Conker's Bad Fur Day or forgot about that sequence (which to be fair is a tiny part of the game).

It's also worth noting that Max Payne's bullet time was hyped up years before its launch, and long before Conker's launch (which AFAIK did not specifically hype up its minute and a half long Matrix parody sequence with bullet time). Max Payne trailers, gameplay footage, and E3 demos were the first demonstrated instance of bullet time in a video game seen, even if Conker came out first. Max Payne's development actually predates The Matrix, and bullet time was always a crucial part of it.
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User Info: Kerr Avon

Kerr Avon
8 months ago#25
I don't mean to be awkward, but the phrase 'Bullet time' can mean separate things to different people. Do you mean, for example, bullet time where the enemies move slowly but the hero (you character you control) still moves at normal speed, or where both the enemies and the hero moves slowly, or where the slowdown effect is only local (so anyone outside the immediate area doesn't slow down), or does the entire game-world slowdown? And do bullets have to leave visible trails in the air?

If you don't mean a specific definition, then the earliest game I know of is Perfect Dark (N64 2000), but I've heard that the 1999 PC game Requiem: Avenging Angel had it too, but I've never played it so I can't confirm it.

loki00_00 posted...
Max Payne is the first one who did it right.
That game still holds up.


Perfect Dark did it before MP, and also did it right.
I'm a PC and console gamer - I love good games, regardless of their host system.
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User Info: Kerr Avon

Kerr Avon
8 months ago#26
KillerTruffle posted...
Alesandros posted...
Perfect Dark on the N64 had the "combat boost"... back in May of 2000.

Wasn't that like the opposite though? I don't recall that slowing anything down... I thought it just sped everything you do up compared to everything else around you, which stayed at normal speed? You running, shooting, etc. faster is not the same as slow motion/bullet time. :P

I mean, I didn't play it much and it's been ages... if it did use a slow-mo effect though, it still wasn't bullet time. Bullet time slows *you* down too.


No, the enemies (and explosions, etc) slow down when Combat Boost is used.
I'm a PC and console gamer - I love good games, regardless of their host system.
For all things N64: http://z9.invisionfree.com/Nintendo_64_Forever/
The cranky hermit 8 months ago#27
Kerr Avon posted...
Perfect Dark did it before MP,

That's not bullet time, just slow motion. Bullets are still hitscan. Perfect Dark isn't even close to being the first game to have slow motion in it. System Shock had it years earlier.
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User Info: KillerTruffle

KillerTruffle
8 months ago#28
Kerr Avon posted...
I don't mean to be awkward, but the phrase 'Bullet time' can mean separate things to different people.

That's fine, but it just means some people are interpreting it wrong. Bullet time is a very specific effect. People who use it to refer to basically any slow-motion effect are incorrect (and are in a minority, in my experience).

The term came about explicitly because of The Matrix, and it is used explicitly to refer to that sort of effect, where the camera is not "fixed" (can rotate around the scene/object, everything is in slow motion, and time slows to the degree you can actually see the bullet travel (assuming bullets are on screen).

A very specific component of bullet time is that the camera moves - it doesn't stay fixed. That's the big thing that differentiates bullet time from regular slow motion.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BulletTime

"The difference between this and a regular Slow Motion shot is that, in bullet time, the camera moves (often a significant portion of a full circle) around the subject rather than a static or simple tracking shot. It is often used to stop action at a dramatic point so that the audience can see a panoramic or surround view around the event being emphasized."
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User Info: KillerTruffle

KillerTruffle
8 months ago#29
^ According to that tropes page, they actually used it first in the movie Kill and Kill Again in 1981. It didn't use the multi-camera pan effect the Matrix used, but it used a non-stationary camera to follow a bullet in slow motion (in typical 80s B-movie effect style).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBh3yr-tdus
"How do I get rid of a Trojan Horse?" -Sailor_Kakashi
"Leave it outside the gates of Troy overnight." -Davel23
The cranky hermit 8 months ago#30
Wouldn't that imply they made the camera move as fast as a bullet? Or maybe they somehow made the bullet move slow enough that a camera could follow it.

In any event, the requirement for the camera to move isn't directly applicable to video games, since camera movement is usually up to the player rather than a simulated cinematographer. The key part that applies is being able to see the bullet travel, which requires that bullets be very fast projectiles rather than conventional hitscan weapons, and also requires a very high degree of slow motion.
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