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User Info: TheGamerGod____

TheGamerGod____
2 years ago#11
the apocalypse portion of the story is definitely when it starts really ramping up

and I think had a few interesting bits that I'm still willing to call interesting even if they were bad/done poorly

the Crossroads place Matt goes to when he sleeps after he entered the Business Man's deal or whatever is basically an alternate version of the Nexus thing the Happy Mask Salesman had in NW though I think I wrote that before we did that version
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User Info: GeneralKenobi85

GeneralKenobi85
2 years ago#12
Yeah that was pretty clearly the Nexus. That's one of the TGG staples of writing. Some kind of Nexus thing and insane asylums.
Ah, yes, the Negotiator: General Kenobi
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User Info: TheGamerGod____

TheGamerGod____
2 years ago#13
actually no I take that back

because I stole the name Matt from the Ben ARG thing

so yeah the Nexus came first, Crossroads later

the Crossroads were supposed to be like this whole network or way of traveling between realms/worlds

but then the Business Man took it over from its creator and made it become the place where Matt ends up when he goes to sleep for some reason

there are reasons for probably almost every weird or unexplained thing in that book that have been lost to time because I don't even remember huge chunks of the story because after a while it became

"Matt walks onto generic street (no description of the actual street but here's the street name for no reason!), encounters obstacle which could either be a character or just like a wall of fire, then repeat until Business Man confrontation"

also what sort of city has absolutely nothing surrounding it

other than like one road connecting to another city (Belltow, the place Matt hid out at for a while and also was going to be where another Hellbound spin-off took place) and one cemetery

like there's just so many details like that in that story that just drives me bonkers looking back at it

whereas with ANDoH it's like

yeah radiation gods with anime powers enabling to lift entire cities up and make them float SURE

tl;dr I now refer to Hellbound as my "practice novel"
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User Info: TheGamerGod____

TheGamerGod____
2 years ago#14
oh yeah

and in the pre-apocalypse chunk

I remember there was a part where matt has to go to like

I guess his only friend's house to use his VCR

because he got a video tape message from the Masked Man guy or whatever

and then

his VCR friend returns later on at some point in the apocalypse?

why even include a friend character for Matt if the only thing that ever's going to be expanded on him is the fact that he owns a VCR
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User Info: GeneralKenobi85

GeneralKenobi85
2 years ago#15
@TheGamerGod____

You know it seems like a lot of this story is kind of filler, which you did sort of mention already. The concept is actually pretty good. I mean not exactly original, but it works. I think the concepts of The Business Man and Cain are interesting, they just aren't executed as well as they could be.

I think all the characters suffer from having somewhat unclear motivations. Yeah I get Matt wants to save his daughter, Cain wants ultimate power, and The Business Man just wants be a puppetmaster. Just all their actions don't feel like they're leading to any of those. Perhaps because the details of how some of the supernatural stuff works isn't really touched upon at all. For example, the idea that selling your soul to the devil is what allows a demon to possess someone kind of just shows up out of the blue. Yeah that's exactly what happens with Cain and Matt, but they were presented as a special case from the very beginning.

On an unrelated note, you did kind of a bad job of editing, if you edited at all. I know it's tough since you had to actually do your own editing, but just something I wanted to point out.

I'll probably be done with the book some time this week.
Ah, yes, the Negotiator: General Kenobi
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User Info: GeneralKenobi85

GeneralKenobi85
2 years ago#16
Also TGG, if you're kind of turned off by the idea of working on the Dark Four series at this point, you could always try contributing to this.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WritingPrompts/

One of the few really quality subreddits on that site. I mean maybe you don't have to contribute to it. I know I wouldn't exactly be comfortable enough in my writing skills to share stuff I work on with strangers. But you at least have a novel under your belt. Even if you don't write something, at least there are plenty interesting things to read. The scenarios people come up with alone are incredibly interesting and creative. In fact, I haven't been reading the content on this sub as much as I should be.
Ah, yes, the Negotiator: General Kenobi
<sneaky beeping>

User Info: TheGamerGod____

TheGamerGod____
2 years ago#17
To be quite honest, I really wanted to do a sort of... four horsemen of the apocalypse thing. I'm pretty sure there's some stuff about it in the actual novel, but I don't know how much I hinted at. A perpetual battle between light and darkness and etc, but the entity representing darkness decides to split himself into four pieces to send to mess with humanity once the being representing light decided to create the world in Hellbound

and the four beings were The Business Man, Cain, The Wicked Man (I think he appears in Hellbound briefly but he's the "Happy Place"/insane asylum guy), Plague (I also briefly wrote a thing for him too but he's basically just Pestilence/Famine from the Four Horsemen), and Cain (was cheated by the Business Man and reincarnated as a human (?) to introduce sin to humanity)

I still really like that concept (or the idea behind Hellbound's world building even if it was awful/poorly done) though I wish I had done it better

but anyways Matt/Cain was going to eventually consume the other two after consuming The Business Man, and he was basically going to wage war on Heaven as due to circumstances I don't really remember, his daughter ends up being taken there before he can make it to the Business Man to kill him

but by the time he actually made it to Heaven, he would have basically been the original being of darkness reincarnated (I may be wrong on this, but I think he also briefly appears in Hellbound?)

there was also some nonsense about Matt's daughter that made her special towards the light side of things (the Business Man wanted to take Matt's soul [probably assumed Matt would die in the apocalypse] while also keeping Sarah's soul trapped for a reason)

GeneralKenobi85 posted...
On an unrelated note, you did kind of a bad job of editing, if you edited at all. I know it's tough since you had to actually do your own editing, but just something I wanted to point out.


Elaborate? I can't really call what I did editing, but I put Hellbound through like three revisions before I decided to self-publish it for some reason. Like through the entirety of my senior year in high school, I had this brick of paper that was the first printed out version of Hellbound and

I ended up going through literally every page and basically rewrote the entire thing by hand and I think I actually added to it (those unwritten chapters or whatever that break away from Matt's narration are actually a result of that. Which may or may not have been a mistake, but I needed them to lessen... the dumbness of a certain twist that I thought was super obvious and kind of idiotic if I tried to keep acting as if it was this super amazing unforseen twist)

there was actually a whole 30,000 more words I ended up actually removing from the final thing

and it wasn't even anything interesting

writing/editing/revising/making novels is hard
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User Info: TheGamerGod____

TheGamerGod____
2 years ago#18
GeneralKenobi85 posted...
Also TGG, if you're kind of turned off by the idea of working on the Dark Four series at this point, you could always try contributing to this.

https://www.reddit.com/r/WritingPrompts/

One of the few really quality subreddits on that site. I mean maybe you don't have to contribute to it. I know I wouldn't exactly be comfortable enough in my writing skills to share stuff I work on with strangers. But you at least have a novel under your belt. Even if you don't write something, at least there are plenty interesting things to read. The scenarios people come up with alone are incredibly interesting and creative. In fact, I haven't been reading the content on this sub as much as I should be.


Huh. I actually have a writing subreddit on my thing (I don't remember at what point I became a reddit person but it happened a while ago), but I didn't see there was one for prompts or things

Also, I'm actually... in the process of messing around with a story idea that sort of... uh... reworks or redoes some of the stuff in Hellbound and some of my other scrapped story ideas I've been throwing around for a long time.

I haven't really set out to start really writing it yet, but it's probably the most different thing I've thought about writing in a while

as I've never really done anything with "multiple protagonists" other than you know like Paper Fallout or whatever

but a redone/altered Matt Robinson is straight up one of the three protagonists

and the whole idea behind it is three s***ty people/people who have committed great sins try to struggle and fight there way out of Hell essentially, with the possibility of them turning on each other
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User Info: GeneralKenobi85

GeneralKenobi85
2 years ago#19
I think the thing is that Matt as the narrator is only really about showing his internal struggles. And quite frankly, there's really no progression at all on that matter. I mean it seems like half the time he realizes there's no point in continuing on but he does so anyway because he has no other option. But he keeps hammering that into you time after time, and we get the point by then.

What Matt doesn't do is explain all the other s*** going on. Well for the most part at least. Since he's narrating from the future he obviously has a bit more clarity on what's going on as we're viewing it. I know he can't say everything but he could shed some light on certain things. Maybe that's just the problem with that style of narration. Even past Matt (the one we follow in the story) doesn't seem to ever question anything but his own purpose. Hell, he was savvy enough to know who The Business Man was and what his game was within seconds of just seeing him.

I think Hellbound's world could be interesting if you had shed some more light on it. You do a bit. I mean you made it perfectly clear The Dark Four is supposed to be The Four Horsemen, that there's a Dark One that split into four, etc. I don't know, maybe I'm not explaining my point very well.

As for the editing the main issues are just some redundant sentences. Even found one page with two paragraphs that were virtually the same. There are actually very few spelling and grammar errors though, so good job with that.
Ah, yes, the Negotiator: General Kenobi
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User Info: TheGamerGod____

TheGamerGod____
2 years ago#20
there are... a few obstacle/filler people that Matt eventually faces I think towards the end that do sort of

I don't know if I'd say they expand his character but it's more than "some random bum who was announcing the end of the world and then it actually happened"

yeah I didn't really do a good job with that. "I have to keep going on even though I really don't have any goal to keep going other than why not I guess. Oh what? The Business Man is at the center of Windfield? Okay I'll go there even if there isn't any concrete proof of what will happen if I go there"

really Matt actually only gets his real goal at the very end of Hellbound ("I'm going to go into Hell and beat up the Devil and get my daughter back!") but like I said before, this was supposed to be the first part of a three part story that ended up becoming way too big needlessly so

and yeah... I don't even remember why Matt takes the deal with the Business Man in the first place? like I remember his house gets set on fire and he doesn't want to die but

the whole deal was the Business Man giving him Sarah back but he doesn't and Matt then just hangs around until the apocalypse happens and then starts pointlessly walking around in a burning Windfield until he meets the Business Man again

speaking of world building, I was actually going to write a whole novel about Cain and his time as a human. His murder of Abel, his rebellion against the Business Man (I think he even goes down to Hell and battles through it just like Matt eventually does?), and etc. That would have been neat.

but yeah one of my largest problems with Hellbound is

that the apocalypse is supposedly worldwide but

other than the people Matt fights, there's like four human characters and they're most barebones f***ing characters that almost immediately get killed off so Matt can wander around in Windfield again (the Grave Digger is probably my favorite filler/obstacle character that I still like even though I was basically imagining Dead Hand from Ocarina of Time but with like a shovel while writing it)

like there's apparently nothing surrounding the city of Windfield but the city itself is just like empty streets for Matt to have his fights in, his house, and then some skyscrapers

that's why for this new novel thing I'm just sticking to mostly the supernatural sort of areas

GeneralKenobi85 posted...
As for the editing the main issues are just some redundant sentences.


yeah that 30,000 words that didn't even make it in were more or less basically just all that though I guess I didn't get all of it
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