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  3. What backgrounds are good for a half-elf spellsword/fighter mage?

User Info: Strelok

Strelok
4 years ago#21
Super Model (female only)
: +6 beauty, -2 strength, -4 intelligence
As useless as Ladies Man.

Suppressed Orcish Looks (half-orc only)
: +2 beauty, -2 charisma
Let's trade a so-so stat for a useless one! Goodie!

Technophobia (half-elf, half-orc, halfling, human only)
: +1 strength, +1 constitution, inability to pick up technological
items
Gain in stats, but tech items sell quite well. If you go for a mage... wait if you are a mage why do you get strength?

Tomboy (female only)
: +1 strength, -1 constitution
Swap.

Tough Hide (half-ogre, half-orc only)
: +10% damage resistance, -1 charisma
This is actualy pretty good.

Troll Offspring (all)
: +2 strength, +2 constitution, +1 dexterity, -4 beauty, -4 charisma
Net loss, but you get some good stats for a useless one and a so-so one.

Wild Half-Ogre (half-ogre only)
: +1 willpower, -1 charisma
Swap. Generally willpower is better than charisma.


Most of them are *NOT* good picks.

Generally, any gain in beauty is worthless.
Charisma for followers is nice, but you won't need that many. A charisma run is very specialized really. And followers tend to be pretty... stupid... at times (Sad AI limitations. Why did you keep trying to revive Magnus in combat Vergil? it got you killed too) Not to mention a lot of followers simply suck.
Losing Dexterity is bad all in all, as is Strength and Constitution. Intelligence in general is also quite useful, but you can stand to lose some. Willpower is almost never good to lose.
Blah blah, I am tired now.
Goodbye Bubbles, dearest of pets. I'll miss you, always. 2nd June 2004 - 22nd August 2009
http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l493/TTripweed/Haiguyz.jpg

User Info: the_dracolich

the_dracolich
4 years ago#22
Strelok, don't feed the troll. Don't repeat my mistake. Also, don't quote him, I have that clown on ignore now.
Immune to criticals, criticism, negative board level, etc.

User Info: Strelok

Strelok
4 years ago#23
I felt I needed to underline the point that most backgrounds are pretty useless one way or another as it's either situational (with hefty penalties if your conditions aren't met and considering the game is about equal 50/50 in above ground and dungeon crawling... you're shafted one way or another!), a tradeoff, or flat out useless because you get things like charisma and beauty, both of which are only really useful for very specific builds.
Goodbye Bubbles, dearest of pets. I'll miss you, always. 2nd June 2004 - 22nd August 2009
http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l493/TTripweed/Haiguyz.jpg

User Info: Coontemptus

Coontemptus
4 years ago#24
the_dracolich posted...
Strelok, don't feed the troll. Don't repeat my mistake. Also, don't quote him, I have that clown on ignore now.


Please don't lie about having me on ignore.

I already sent you a PM, it is very easy to see if someone is ignoring you.

If you were a man, you'd apologize for lying.

But you aren't, so you probably won't.
The biggest problem in America is that you have to go out of your way to buy bread that doesn't have sugar added to it.

User Info: Coontemptus

Coontemptus
4 years ago#25
Strelok posted...
I felt I needed to underline the point that most backgrounds are pretty useless one way or another as it's either situational (with hefty penalties if your conditions aren't met and considering the game is about equal 50/50 in above ground and dungeon crawling... you're shafted one way or another!), a tradeoff, or flat out useless because you get things like charisma and beauty, both of which are only really useful for very specific builds.


Most backgrounds will only be useful for a specific build or playstyle. That's pretty much the whole point.

This directly conflicts with the statement "most backgrounds are Role Playing only." That is just flat out untrue (but as we know that guy has a history of lying, as proven by this thread).

Also, I feel like you guys don't understand the game mechanics very well. 1 extra rank in a skill (skills go 1-20), allows you to potentially save 4 points when getting a mastery in that skill.

If you're only going for a mastery for the bonus, this potentially saves you 4 whole stat points. Some skills like FIrearms you'll probably want maxed out for the hit bonus, but most other skills are fine at 17/20 with mastery.

Also, not everyone plays Turn based, so dexterity isn't the god stat many people make it out to be. If you're a non-combat character or a real-time player, many of the backgrounds all of a sudden get MUCH better.

Of the backgrounds you listed, I went through them and individually placed them into categories of how I saw them (Good for powergaming, Roleplaying only, or Neutral).

My results:

Powergaming: 51 backgrounds

Roleplaying: 9

Neutral: 4

Almost every background is a net gain when used with the right build. This completely disproves the theory in this thread that backgrounds are mostly useless and only good for roleplaying!
The biggest problem in America is that you have to go out of your way to buy bread that doesn't have sugar added to it.

User Info: Coontemptus

Coontemptus
4 years ago#26
Power gaming/net positive:
Afraid of the Dark - +2 PE at the cost of an off hand.
Agoraphobic - Most of the tough combat is indoors
Apprenticed to a Blacksmith - net gain if you're increasing repair
Apprenticed to a Shopkeeper - haggle is fairly weak, but if you want haggle and you're not using Dex it doesn't hurt
Army Training - losing dex sucks, but otherwise obviously a net gain
Arsonist - Decent gain, if you aren't using the stats you lose
Bandit - Firearms skill potentially saves a lot of points. Obviously strong
Barbarian - Obviously very good for powergaming
Beat with an Ugly Stick - obviously very good
Bookworm - Obviously very good
Bride of Frankenstein - good for a caster, especially if you like the bonuses
Bully - Obviously good
Charlatan’s Protégé - one of the best
Child of a Hero - beneficial for "good" characters
Clanless Dwarf - one of the worst, only good for non-tech dwarves. Still a net positive though
Dark Elf Follower - Obviously good
Day Mage - net gain if you cheese the time system, but too much hassle imo
Debutante - Obviously good if you're non-combat
Disenfranchised Gnome - good
Educator - good
Elven Blood - weak bonus, but still positive
Escaped Lunatic - good
Factory Escapee - good
Feral Child - quite good
Frankenstein Monster - good
Freed Bodyguard - tiny loss, but you likely don't need int anyway
Halfling Orphan - good for theives who wont' be using INT anyway
Hydrophobic - very good. can obviously save you 4 points with its skill ranks. Water rarely comes into play
Hyperactive - good
Idiot Savant - fine for techies
Inheritance - fine for anyone not using WP
Mad Doctor - one of the best
Miracle Operation - one of the best, tailor made to a gunslinger in a big party
Nietzsche Poster Child - obviously good. a powergamer who saves often will obviously make the most of this
Night Mage - same as day mage
Only Child - obviously very good
Raised by Elves - fine if you aren't tech
Raised by Monks - good
Raised by Orcs - good for soloers of many builds
Raised by Snake Handlers - fine, but not a huge gain
Raised in the Pits - good
Ran Away with the Circus - great
Rare Half-Ogre Birth - good
Sent to Charm School - good for the right build
Sheltered Childhood - very good
Sickly - good
Sold Your Soul - good
Technophobia - fine
Tough Hide - good
Troll Offspring - good
Wild Half-Ogre - good

RP only
Foppish Elf - not powergaming appropriate to make an elf gunslinger
Lady’s Man - can't imagine a build using this for anything other than RP reasons
Magic Allergy - tech aptitude has very little powergaming benefit
Professional Knife Tosser - possibly useful to save points in DEX to get master throwing while doing something else (INT most likely) but not great overall
Sky Mage - too much indoor combat
Special Person - no significant gains
Super Model - weak
Suppressed Orcish - weak
Tomboy - obvious


Neutral
Born Under a Sign
Dark Sight
Extreme Personality
Nature Mage
The biggest problem in America is that you have to go out of your way to buy bread that doesn't have sugar added to it.

User Info: Strelok

Strelok
4 years ago#27
So you didn't look at my reasoning at any way. Good to know.
Goodbye Bubbles, dearest of pets. I'll miss you, always. 2nd June 2004 - 22nd August 2009
http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l493/TTripweed/Haiguyz.jpg

User Info: Coontemptus

Coontemptus
4 years ago#28
Strelok posted...
So you didn't look at my reasoning at any way. Good to know.


I looked at it, but I disagree with most of your mental gymnastics.

If you aren't going to use a stat anyway, it isn't a loss.

Also, you seem to misunderstand many of the game mechanics, like skill ranks/mastery and how real time based combat isn't based on DEX.
The biggest problem in America is that you have to go out of your way to buy bread that doesn't have sugar added to it.

User Info: Strelok

Strelok
4 years ago#29
The thing is that at SOME point you'll likely use some stats, definitely strength (if just carry capacity and a lot of weapons have a minimum strength requirement, especially guns!), dexterity (ANY combat stat) and constitution and willpower (stamina, health).
Losing on these is *BAD*, no matter how you slice it.

Charisma and intelligence are the least useful of the useful stats, and even these have a lot of uses (crafting, sustaining spells, number of followers, etc).

Any background that loses here is inheritly bad, doubly so when the tradeoff is something that is rather s***ty, even IF it fits in your build (again, hello repair).

Skill ranks and mastery, I know how these work.
It doesn't mean that the paltry points are actually GOOD in giving up statpoints, which are vital to hit requirements for your skills.

And real time combat isn't based on Dex?
What?
Dex is still checked to see how fast you can attack, as well as adding a minor (But especially early game, vital) bonus.
Losing dex is *ALWAYS* bad.
Goodbye Bubbles, dearest of pets. I'll miss you, always. 2nd June 2004 - 22nd August 2009
http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l493/TTripweed/Haiguyz.jpg

User Info: Coontemptus

Coontemptus
4 years ago#30
Strelok posted...
The thing is that at SOME point you'll likely use some stats, definitely strength (if just carry capacity and a lot of weapons have a minimum strength requirement, especially guns!), dexterity (ANY combat stat) and constitution and willpower (stamina, health).
Losing on these is *BAD*, no matter how you slice it.


This is just simply not true.

If you're only losing STR to gain points in something you'll use, the fact that you MIGHT use it for carrying capacity is irrelevant to someone attempting to min/max because they already know they won't.

Which was the whole point of the thread :)
The biggest problem in America is that you have to go out of your way to buy bread that doesn't have sugar added to it.
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  2. Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura
  3. What backgrounds are good for a half-elf spellsword/fighter mage?
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