This is my least favorite 3DS EO game because of...

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  3. This is my least favorite 3DS EO game because of...

User Info: Salocool

Salocool
5 months ago#11
NeonShadow1 posted...
EO5, to me, feels like it has been designed to be an entry point into the series for new players. Highly polished but barebones games are usually intended as such. This is probably why some series veterans might find it lacklustre.

It doesn't feel any more designed for newbie than EOU and EOU2.
And the Lord [...] drive out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

User Info: NeonShadow1

NeonShadow1
5 months ago#12
Salocool posted...
NeonShadow1 posted...
EO5, to me, feels like it has been designed to be an entry point into the series for new players. Highly polished but barebones games are usually intended as such. This is probably why some series veterans might find it lacklustre.

It doesn't feel any more designed for newbie than EOU and EOU2.


EO5 is really easy compared tho EOU2, though. Not sure about EOU1 since I only got to the 3rd stratum before dropping the game because it was too easy up until that point as well.
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User Info: ImperialNeko

ImperialNeko
5 months ago#13
NeonShadow1 posted...
EO5, to me, feels like it has been designed to be an entry point into the series for new players. Highly polished but barebones games are usually intended as such. This is probably why some series veterans might find it lacklustre.

I disagree with this notion. They did try that with Picnic Mode in EO2U. That is completely missing here, and both Casual and Advanced are pretty competent difficulties; also the specialization aspect of the game's character building makes the experience a bit more rigid and less open-ended compared to previous entries. Enemy encounter in general requires a lot more fore-thought with some particular enemies being certain NOPEs for some parties (Like Coffin Demons), especially after L. Names, and some bosses have some pretty rude moves the first time around, which will certainly discourage new players when they receive what they are certain to regard as unjustified party wipes (Amalgolem, I'm looking at you).
Glory for loli.
Also, Inazuma is best waifu. Nanodesu/Nanodeath for everyone <3

User Info: Salocool

Salocool
5 months ago#14
Ditto what ImperialNeko posted.

Not sure what's NeonShadow's angle in all this exactly, but EOU2 at the very least offered a FAR smoother experience for a newbie with Picnic mode, pre-selected extremely potent Story team, Grimoires and Food effects.
And the Lord [...] drive out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

User Info: Desespkmaniaco

Desespkmaniaco
5 months ago#15
lukeskywalker66 posted...
When I got 100% on EOV, for some reason I had a spontaneous urge to play EOIV again (well, someone posted a fun party in another thread and I wanted to jump on a no-Medic/Tank run.)
[...]
It's true that the amount of NPC dialogue or labyrinth variety doesn't have any impact on the gameplay, and they've never been the focus of EO games. But they do make it a little less forgettable. And when they're as notably absent as in V it can get rather jarring. I specifically booted up IV again to show that I don't really suffer from the 'series fatigue' like TC or others have attested to. V just happens to be so barebones that its few attempts to spice up the gameplay (ie. cooking) become banal insanely quickly. That and the mapping tools are rather atrocious, although I suppose it wouldn't matter if you just auto-mapped.

I've complained about many of the same things as well.
My core gripe is, I think, that over-reliance on predictability and repetition. In that sense, streamlining has done this game more harm than good. When you take the core (or rather, the body) of the series and then strip it of absolutely everything else... then you get something that I've already played several times before with barely anything unique. An ice cream with no flavor. And introducing some new/expanded mechanics and them dropping them at the end doesn't help either. Adventure episodes became lamer as the strata went up and outright disappeared in the last.
When even your NPCs are capable of accurately predicting what is going to happen... then yeah, you're overdoing it with the rigid formula.

As for the last paragraph, those things which aren't part of the "gameplay" DO matter. A lot. If they didn't, we wouldn't have these sprites, the customization or a setting at all. How a game feels isn't determined just by its cogs and wheels, the aesthetical matters and so does that which isn't part of the "core", otherwise we would jsut be playing with spreadsheets. Surprise and wonder are also important to keep interest and engagement... and the game is severely lacking in this last one.

Asbel__Lhant posted...
EO5 lacked memorable PC's, the overworld of EOIV, and the sheer amount of content of EOU1 and EOU2

Now there, Jenetta alone is better than Etria's entire cast put together. Remus and the guildmaster are also cool dudes.
Also, it content is post-game bosses, they can shove that content up there. If it's stuff like the restaurant, well, EO5 sorely misses something like that. If it's stuff happening and other flavorful stuff like bar patrons and appropriate quests... EO2U is also severely lacking in that regard. A look at the last floor look of every bar says a lot
https://imgur.com/a/XFXR3
--
Now that the Untolds have been mentioned, this is probably cuased by being the series' blueprint, but I find EOU to be far blander then EO5 (even if it does remember to put some events in the 6th stratum). The town is bland, the NPC is bland, the "rival guild" is bland, its classes are bland, the labyrinth is less graced than the others... and of course, it's every bit as predictable as EO5 since it's a remake of the game that set those rules in the first place (unless we count B15F and B18F as being surprising because they kidnapped most of their space for future quests... on the other hand that offsets the monotony of all floors lasting about the same).
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An undub of EOV exists.

User Info: NeonShadow1

NeonShadow1
5 months ago#16
Picnic mode wasn't just easy, it was borderline cheating, which is why normal and hard were harder in EOU2, since they could be balanced out for people who were looking for a challenge. EO5 Normal is harder than picnic, but it's way easier than EOU2's Normal. Also, an easy game doesn't always have to mean easy in terms of combat. EO5 offers the least amount of character choice right off the bat since they've decided to slash the class kits in half and lock them behind the 2nd stratum. That means that new players will be met with less choice when they make a new party, which will seem less daunting for them. Unfortunately it's really limiting for veterans and has made some classes (almost) into dead weight until you unlock the Titles, like the Harbinger.
It's small design choices like this that make them game have less of an initial learning curve for new players than any of the older titles do.
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User Info: wolfei132

wolfei132
5 months ago#17
class design in this game is the best it's ever been, but i've gotta say i miss the direction they were going in EO3/4 with an actual world map to do things on. I don't have any real complaints about 5, but going forward i'd like to see the series improve upon what they did in 4 in terms of exploration.
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User Info: Jaquan1

Jaquan1
5 months ago#18
NeonShadow1 posted...
EO5 offers the least amount of character choice right off the bat

Umm nope? You got 10 classes across 4 races. For comparison, EOIV had 7 classes of the bat with 3 coming later. EOU had 9. EO2U was better with 13. So I'd say out of 3DS entries EOV had a relatively big roster to start with. True hacking classes through Mastery was different and yet same as EOIV system where you unlocked your tree with level progression.

Personally, I found the bare bone approach... Refreshing? True lack of outworld exploration was a step back from IV but damn if the dungeons in that game weren't lacking. No offense but they were... Bland, I much preferred the design in EOV which in my opinion tops any game in the series I saw so far.

I know I'm in minority but I really welcomed absence of cross classing of any sort. For the first time in a long time forging a party was a puzzle with no easy and obvious choice and I can't truly agree with the notion that Harbingers were dead weights before promotion. In the end, they possessed one of the few early game multitarget skills and damn if those reaps didn't help me a lot early game.
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User Info: NeonShadow1

NeonShadow1
5 months ago#19
Jaquan1 posted...
NeonShadow1 posted...
EO5 offers the least amount of character choice right off the bat

Umm nope? You got 10 classes across 4 races. For comparison, EOIV had 7 classes of the bat with 3 coming later. EOU had 9. EO2U was better with 13. So I'd say out of 3DS entries EOV had a relatively big roster to start with. True hacking classes through Mastery was different and yet same as EOIV system where you unlocked your tree with level progression.

Personally, I found the bare bone approach... Refreshing? True lack of outworld exploration was a step back from IV but damn if the dungeons in that game weren't lacking. No offense but they were... Bland, I much preferred the design in EOV which in my opinion tops any game in the series I saw so far.

I know I'm in minority but I really welcomed absence of cross classing of any sort. For the first time in a long time forging a party was a puzzle with no easy and obvious choice and I can't truly agree with the notion that Harbingers were dead weights before promotion. In the end, they possessed one of the few early game multitarget skills and damn if those reaps didn't help me a lot early game.


10 classes is irrelevant because you have less available skills to spec into until you finish the 2nd stratum. That means that there is less choice when you start EO5. Races only matter after the 1st stratum and even then you're just picking the race with the best stats for whatever role you want it to. There's.. nothing else you can build upon from there.

Not sure how EO4's dungeons are bland but EO5's aren't? It's just linear corridors (that zig-zag in a mazelike appearance, but they aren't labyrinthian in the least). Dungeon design was never the strong point of EO to begin with. As far as dungeon crawlers go, EO has the worst dungeons in the whole genre. Luckily it has the best combat and party building to make up for it.
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User Info: Machachan

Machachan
5 months ago#20
Yeah, no. EO5 definitely has more class variety and genuine choice than 4 did. Replaying 4 after 5 shows this very, very well. EO4 really opens up several stratums in.

Much later than EO3 and EO5.

EO has the worst dungeons in the whole genre


Play other dungeon crawlers, from class of heroes to might&magic, and say that again.

EO actually has some of the best dungeons in the genre, the only ones better are of the dungeon master/grimrock subgenre.

And if you truly want tedious, try Wizardry IV. Once you're done, you'll have a whole new perspective on dungeon design, trust me.
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