People just don't appreciate a challenge anymore.

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  3. People just don't appreciate a challenge anymore.

User Info: mada7

mada7
2 months ago#111
Heartfang posted...
mada7 posted...
AceJay posted...
YukimuraCrimson posted...
Not being able to save whenever you want does not make the game any harder just more tedious. It makes no sense to not be able to quit the game mid dungeon and leave it at that. It is rather an inconvenience to find a safe house or leave the dungeon. Also there is hardly any penalty by dying you just have to rerun a familiar area at that point. In SMTIV/A you can save whenever you want and that game is more challenging than this game, P5 is probably one of the easier persona games out there


There is a penalty from dying, like losing a rare item you found or losing a new persona. If you need to find a save point just use Go-Hom. There are plenty of craft items, confidant skills, and game mechanics that help you speed run through the dungeon.

Anyway agree to disagree
Maybe im spoiled by demon souls like games


Again what you described is an inconvenience not actual difficulty. All lost items and personas are recovered with time so again it just boils down to wasting time as a penalty.

Dark souls is designed around death being a harsh penalty. If you died to a boss that death is cannon and is what actually happened. Any resources you consumed stay consumed because you (or me) dying to capra demon 10 times is actually what happened in the story so nothing should be reset. In this and most other series your death isn't actually part of the story especially in a game like this were most of it is a story told to someone you're sitting in a room with so obviously you didn't die. If all that happens is you get sent back to your last save you might as well let people save wherever they want rather than wasting their time and make them tread through content they already cleared


You know there's a "I suck all at games" difficulty setting that lets you restart any battle you lose.


Congratulations on refuting your own point. Most people will avoid difficulty settings that insult them especially when you don't have the option to turn it off.

But since you brought up the different difficulty levels those have always been a sticking point for me with the series because it's only ever a case of how much are you willing to grind. Difficulty doesn't change what shadows show up, the attacks they use, and doesn't change their resistances/weaknesses. It's simply enemy hp/defense and damage up and player xp, money, and stats down. It's purely a rebalancing of the numbers to be more or less in your favor. The problem with this is that it only ever amounts to how much you need to grind to overcome the number imbalance. Which once again brings us back to time wasting as a substitute for challenge. Just because something takes time doesn't make it difficult but it makes it feel that way because of the time investment. The lack of saving wherever you want is the same thing; it's difficulty based around wasting time
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User Info: NextGenCowboy

NextGenCowboy
2 months ago#112
Difficulty is actually your damage up down, enemy damage up or down.

Then XP, and yen modifiers.

It doesn't affect HP, or stats.

Although in P5 Merciless does change up some things: crits do 3x damage on both sides, and tech combos do 3x damage on both sides.

I will say, again, you can save whenever you want. Except in dungeons, in which case you can save whenever you want at the expense of a consumable item you can make 5 of a night -- technically 10 -- and are given to you for free at the start.

If you were just to use the free nights of an optimal run to craft those, not even including calling card nights when you can't do anything else, you would have to save 14 times each palace outside of save rooms, to go through your stock.
"Revy, have you forgotten? I'm already dead. I think I died the day I met you." -- Rock.

User Info: BrightShield786

BrightShield786
2 months ago#113
mada7 posted...
Congratulations on refuting your own point. Most people will avoid difficulty settings that insult them especially when you don't have the option to turn it off.


So developers should tone down their games because people are too proud to admit they suck, and then whine about games being unfair/cheap/too difficult? They literally have an easy mode for these people.

mada7 posted...
But since you brought up the different difficulty levels those have always been a sticking point for me with the series because it's only ever a case of how much are you willing to grind. Difficulty doesn't change what shadows show up, the attacks they use, and doesn't change their resistances/weaknesses. It's simply enemy hp/defense and damage up and player xp, money, and stats down. It's purely a rebalancing of the numbers to be more or less in your favor. The problem with this is that it only ever amounts to how much you need to grind to overcome the number imbalance. Which once again brings us back to time wasting as a substitute for challenge. Just because something takes time doesn't make it difficult but it makes it feel that way because of the time investment. The lack of saving wherever you want is the same thing; it's difficulty based around wasting time


This is a silly complaint for two reasons.

1. Turn based JRPGs don’t rely on precision timing, or twitch reflexes for difficultly. They are about planning, strategy, and number crunching. Always have been. It’s not the same type of difficulty as Ninja Gaiden and never has been.

2. You can defeat most enemies with no grinding if you play right, and fuse the right Personas. The ability to grind is helping the people that suck at planning and strategy. You can power your way through, but you have to work for it. Are you saying that people shouldn’t even have to put in that much effort? This is getting ridiculous. Should the game just automatically put you on a high level? How about the ability to save after every attack?Or better yet, an instant win button?
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User Info: Jiyuu Falcon

Jiyuu Falcon
2 months ago#114
mada7 posted...
Most people will avoid difficulty settings that insult them especially when you don't have the option to turn it off.

So basically they will have a tough time due to wanting to pretend they’re competent. Not really the game’s fault at that point.

knuxnole posted...
You still need guides in games with dungeons that have a map.

Games with confusing maps, yes. Persona 5, definitely not.

User Info: knuxnole

knuxnole
2 months ago#115
I play easy mode on every single game, every single time

If I play normal or hard I will keep dying 50 times and never win. So I switch to easy mode so I can achieve victory!
3DS FC: 4554-0309-4782

User Info: ClarkyMalarky

ClarkyMalarky
2 months ago#116
SpartanAlice253 posted...
Impatiently posted...
Can you imagine them playing Resident Evil 1, 2, and 3 where you can't save unless you find ink and then have to find a typewriter on the opposite side of the building? They'd quit on the spot.

Of course! That was total bs!!


Can you honestly go back and play those games without saying they haven't aged well? I can't. REmake, sure, but not the O.G R.E.

Save management is fine, hard games are making a comeback, p5 sold well and is beloved, and you're a silly adorable goose for thinking otherwise.

User Info: knuxnole

knuxnole
2 months ago#117
Hard game making a comeback isn’t good. Less people will play since they will 100% lose and quit easily.
3DS FC: 4554-0309-4782

User Info: Heartfang

Heartfang
2 months ago#118
ClarkyMalarky posted...
SpartanAlice253 posted...
Impatiently posted...
Can you imagine them playing Resident Evil 1, 2, and 3 where you can't save unless you find ink and then have to find a typewriter on the opposite side of the building? They'd quit on the spot.

Of course! That was total bs!!


Can you honestly go back and play those games without saying they haven't aged well? I can't. REmake, sure, but not the O.G R.E.

Save management is fine, hard games are making a comeback, p5 sold well and is beloved, and you're a silly adorable goose for thinking otherwise.


I'd hardly point to the save system as to why the original resident evil games haven't aged well.
Common sense is just wisdom with its sleeves rolled up

User Info: faireya

faireya
2 months ago#119
@AzaneAzer posted...
faireya posted...
If the stretch takes you three hours, you're probably lost, running around in circles, or grinding.

Not everyone uses a guide.

Being Lost / "running around in circles" are what people do when they play games without one

Similar to when you start finding instant death enemies, if they cast on your MC, it could be a 2 hour mistake to have not used a guide, or running a light + Dark immune persona 24/7 knowing they'll do it somewhere in game. It's a really stupid mechanic in Protagonist death Game Over game.

Even without a guide, that's an unusual amount of time to be wandering around without finding a safe room. But that's okay, because we all miss things. Skipping a guide is not the mistake that cost you two hours. The mistake was not saving somewhere between there. At any point, you could've gone back to save your precious levels, Personas, etc., Even if you don't have a Goho-M on you, the last save room couldn't have been hours of trek time back-- not when you've already found it and know how to get to it. If you've made progress that you don't want to lose (it could be ten minutes if you had a lucky run-in with a Treasure Demon), go back and save. You'll be happy you did.

AzaneAzer posted...
faireya posted...
The PS4's rest mode may also be an option for you.

I'm very uncomfortable praying that the Power doesnt shut off, or the ps4 doesnt crash on me (2nd hasnt happened but its a rational fear) in the days between gaming sessions.

I did get through Persona 5, it took me 6 months in real life, and I had to find days to schedule around the latter Palaces because there were stretches of a couple hours. Especially in Shido and Okumara.

Well, I wouldn't recommend it for days of rest. More like, if you need to step out for a few hours. (And again, if you made progress that you don't want to lose, just hop over to a manual save. You're responsible for making sure that progress is secure.)

This game wasn't designed with the pick-up-and-playability of a handheld, so setting aside some time may be needed. But it's not like the game traps you into three hours of time without giving you a chance to save.
#BestBoyAkechi

User Info: mada7

mada7
2 months ago#120
BrightShield786 posted...

So developers should tone down their games because people are too proud to admit they suck, and then whine about games being unfair/cheap/too difficult? They literally have an easy mode for these people.

This is a silly complaint for two reasons.

1. Turn based JRPGs don’t rely on precision timing, or twitch reflexes for difficultly. They are about planning, strategy, and number crunching. Always have been. It’s not the same type of difficulty as Ninja Gaiden and never has been.

2. You can defeat most enemies with no grinding if you play right, and fuse the right Personas. The ability to grind is helping the people that suck at planning and strategy. You can power your way through, but you have to work for it. Are you saying that people shouldn’t even have to put in that much effort? This is getting ridiculous. Should the game just automatically put you on a high level? How about the ability to save after every attack?Or better yet, an instant win button?


To answer your first question no. What they should do is allow switching of difficulty settings even if the easiest is chosen and not have patronizing names for those that insult people that use them.

The planning and strategy difficulty remains whether you can save at fixed locations or wherever you want. The planning and strategy should be what varies between difficulty settings but that's not what happens. On easy and whatever the hardest difficulty is called all enemies have the same weaknesses, attacks, and strategies only the numbers vary. The only way to compensate for numerical differences is to grind i.e. waste time.

I am not suggesting progression should be abandoned. What I am suggesting is making difficulty more interesting by getting rid of difficulty based around time wasting. If a particular encounter is proving difficult it won't get any easier or harder by having to repeat an hour of gameplay that the user already finished. All that will accomplish is wasting more time. If the only thing difficulty level changes is numbers then the message being sent is to grind more to compensate for those numbers. Party members have fixed personas so there's little strategy with them especially in the early game so it's all numbers. Persona 3 was a bit better about this with some bosses being weak to certain statuses. The goal should be to have difficulty that forces the player to think and where brute forcing it is not an option. Number based difficulty can never do that.

I still have yet to see an explanation for what about making the player replay sections of the game they have already beaten is fun or challenging in this game. There's no planning or strategy that goes into this as the enemies will be mostly the same ones they beat the first go around or if not ones they had faced earlier. There's no risk either as these are likely easily beaten enemies either they're just cannon fodder between the player and the actual challenge. All this does is annoy the player and waste their time which creates the illusion of difficulty without it actually being any harder. There's no strategy, risk or challenge that goes into these extra fights and walking the player is forced to do so why have it at all?
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