Problems with P5's writing, unmarked spoilers for the whole series

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User Info: Hunswar

Hunswar
6 months ago#81
It was planned that P4s culprit would be Yukiko and even Dojima at some stages of development.
There are voiced lines for a romance route for Yosuke, aswell. It happens with all games, that ideas are left behind or changed, that is nothing unusual.

They did not forgive him. There is even a chat dialoge after his fight, where Ryuji said that directly. They understand him, because he went through similar s***. Your statements about Adachi don't having any friends and that Yu could end like him, is exactly the case with P5 aswell. Yusuke explicitly said it even.

Akechi doesn't have a redemption at all, he had to step back from Shidos influence to haven one, but, unlike the PTs, he wasn't strong enough to take off his mask.
Thus his true costume, the camera shows explicitly how he put on his mask.
It was more inline with a cheap escape, due his personal weakness.

And in no place in the game has P5 months of nothingness. The biggest free time period you get is for Futabas dungeon, which is not even a month. Everything else is pretty filled with story. I mean just compare it with P4 or 3, P5 has a lot more story.

User Info: Heartfang

Heartfang
6 months ago#82
The second one bothers me because of a consistency issue. Why didn't his shadow leave? It's very weird that for one palace ruler, the palace begins to crumble when they return for themself. The next crumbles over time. The next crumbles when the shadow returns to themself like the first. The next crumbles when the treasure leaves (although said treasure kind of returns to themself technically; there's also shenanigans with the shadow going on it seems). And the next one (which is Okumura) also crumbles over time. What actually sustains a palace? The treasure or the shadow? I would think the shadow but that isn't the case for Madarame or Okumura apparently.


It's taking the treasure. It's taking the treasure in every instance. Palace 5 is only different because of the self destruct.
Common sense is just wisdom with its sleeves rolled up

User Info: Lazy_Narumi

Lazy_Narumi
6 months ago#83
@Hunswar

Except they planned a Yosuke route and took it out because the play testers felt uncomfortable. His voice packs in both English and Japanese are still in the game. It's not 100% confirmed that's the reason but the matter is that they took it out in a rush at the last minute. There is no left over data for Yukiko and Dojima being the big bad; it was a concept that was considered just like why there is no data in P4U with Dojima and Nanako sprites despite the devs mention that they wanted them as playable characters.

Meanwhile there is a ton of left over beta, lines, and in game data for Persona 5 to the point that people on twitter made a whole animation with Akechi using said data. Enough that hinted or suggested that they had a different idea for Akechi and several other characters and it's further implied by the maniax book, which is WOG.

http://i.imgur.com/ilLUjNz.jpg

Some lines that hinted he would be a confidant.

They spend at least three months up until March in P5 doing nothing and there's the time period between Palace 5 with you doing nothing at all. All of this free time you can be doing anything else or there could be a palace in between. Futaba isn't the most time you spend doing nothing.

Haru says: "今からでも遅くない!一緒に改心させよう? "It's still not too late! Why don't we change his heart together?" and Ann clearly ask to join up. If they didn't give a damn why bother saying those two lines? Even Morgana ask Joker at the end of it how he feels right after palace 6. We don't know if they forgave him afterwards because he's gone and he is mostly ignored afterwards, even when Lavenza brings him up. Ryuji is a bad example because he doesn't like Akechi in the first place. Why the hell would he say anything positive about him?

And he did have a redemption. He had a clear chance to kill them all. Cognition Akechi points out that he could kill them right now and even offers to do so. Instead Akechi doesn't. It's even mentioned by Morgana that Akechi likes Joker. Morgana clearly says: オマエ…ジョーカーの事、気に入ってんだろ。Not "You don't hate Joker" in the original version. They even have a specific different rank 10 with Akechi, with it being 明智との確かな絆を感じる… instead of "character name: との固い絆を感じる…" which was made generic in the English version. And before you go, "But he couldn't," yes Akechi could had went down the same path and teamed up with his cognition and attempted to kill them again and THEN kill himself. But he didn't. He saved them by sealing the door. Even his confidant talks about how he sacrified himself. It was clearly a redemption that was half arsed. That's more of the reason why it's hinted that Akechi is not dead outside of 'no body.'

What gets to me the most is that lavenza specifically says: 素養ある二人の人間 or Two humans with potential, a.k.a wild card users and it's never touched upon. And fake god says 「お前は『ワイルド』という素養によって複数のペルソナを扱うことができる。」when you have access to fusion. Most fans usually say something along the lines of "Oh Joker has the potential to be a Wild card and Akechi doesn't because Joker met the real Igor," which is bulls***e because Joker and Akechi both encountered the fake god and released their potential with said fake god. There is literally no difference between the two; they are both wild cards. That's like saying that Aigis can't be a wild card user because she's a robot or Elizabeth's quest fails because she's not human.

User Info: Hunswar

Hunswar
6 months ago#84
Like I said that happens with all games, espespecially with games that had a long development time.
And P4 also skips 3 months until the end, P4G 2 months, so it's pretty typical for Persona games.

The place after the fifth palace is full of story and with the build up to the sixth palace, the deadline for the dungeon itself is not longer than usual.
I have my problems with the city arc, but saying P5 has moths of nothingness is arguably wrong.

Your point about Akechi is exact what happens in development, ideas got thrown away, even if they're close to completion. Though the point with changing his heart doesn't make sense, because Akechi as a Persona user doesn't have a shadow. I also think they could handle his death better, but the massage of his death isn't a redamtion arc, at least not only that, because of the implications opposite of the PTs, like putting on the mask and get killed from his cognition of Shido, who's influence he couldn't escape, unlike the PTs with their oppressors.

Finally, of course he is a wild card, he has more than one Persona. That's not even worth discussinf. But I don't see why it should be overly important for P5s story.

User Info: meteora88

meteora88
6 months ago#85
I have a problem with the female characters smacking or hitting the males for no goddamn reason.

It’s so stupid and not funny at all. It wasn’t that bad in P5, but Yukiko in P4 was goddamn irritating with this.
"Don't be asinine." - Ravus Nox Fleuret when asked a stupid question.

User Info: PurgeX

PurgeX
6 months ago#86
Heartfang posted...
"The game has no subtlety"

The game: Ruin is coming, impending ruin, ruin upon man, cataclysmic ruin! RUIN RUIN RUIN!!!!!!

And?

"I sure wish there was something for someone who hasn't played persona before to pick up on to imply something worse than shido."
That's not what I meant. I meant the hints like "Welcome to my velvet room", or the fact that Caroline and Justine were fusing instead of Igor.

Apologies for the miscommunication. I was talking about the hints that only made sense if you had played previous persona games.

User Info: TheOneAndOnly44

TheOneAndOnly44
6 months ago#87
meteora88 posted...
It’s so stupid and not funny at all. It wasn’t that bad in P5, but Yukiko in P4 was goddamn irritating with this.

Hooooooooly crap I remember that scene in P4!!!

"Hey Yukiko wanna study?"
SMACK

Completely outta nowhere!!! @_@ I felt so bad for Yosuke, even if his actual phrasing was a bit suggestive.

I'm generally fine with the mild (and I repeat, mild) girl on guy violence, probably just cuz I'm used to it being an anime trope by now.
"Your fate is in the cards." -Elizabeth
"Dont think, feel." -Chie Satonaka

User Info: Lazy_Narumi

Lazy_Narumi
6 months ago#88
Hunswar posted...
Though the point with changing his heart doesn't make sense, because Akechi as a Persona user doesn't have a shadow. I also think they could handle his death better, but the massage of his death isn't a redamtion arc, at least not only that, because of the implications opposite of the PTs, like putting on the mask and get killed from his cognition of Shido, who's influence he couldn't escape, unlike the PTs with their oppressors.

Finally, of course he is a wild card, he has more than one Persona. That's not even worth discussinf. But I don't see why it should be overly important for P5s story.


Because it was important in all of the games previously. Being a wildcard isn't something that they hand out in Persona 3-5. The fact that they brushed it off is inconsistency. Again being a wildcard is a big deal in the Persona universe to the point that Elizabeth spent several games trying to achieve it and left the VR and they reacted when it was discovered that Aigis was one. It's never brought up again in P5, it's just dropped like that, and there's no mention or reaction from it. Which shows that the game was rushed when a major plot point is treated as a NPC segment. Nobody in the PT said "Holy hell this guy is like Joker!" Considering that there was reaction to everything else in the game (such as Akechi being able to use berserk powers,) it's out of place.

Akechi's redemption is again, saving the PT and doing the right thing at the last minute. But it doesn't get the point across because it's rushed and half arsed. He had a chance to clearly kill them and instead saved the PT's lives by sealing himself with his cognition, that would clearly kill them all. His 'death' is up for debt too. In major media no body doesn't equal death. Happens in several anime series and video games.

>User doesn't have a shadow
I'm not sure why you brought up the bold. What Haru said is refering to Akechi's father Shido. Not Akechi himself. Although if you want to get into that I could but that's another discussion.

User Info: meteora88

meteora88
6 months ago#89
TheOneAndOnly44 posted...
meteora88 posted...
It’s so stupid and not funny at all. It wasn’t that bad in P5, but Yukiko in P4 was goddamn irritating with this.

Hooooooooly crap I remember that scene in P4!!!

"Hey Yukiko wanna study?"
SMACK

Completely outta nowhere!!! @_@ I felt so bad for Yosuke, even if his actual phrasing was a bit suggestive.

I'm generally fine with the mild (and I repeat, mild) girl on guy violence, probably just cuz I'm used to it being an anime trope by now.


I remember that scene too.

He said something about private lessons in a completely normal way, but she interpreted in a perverted way and slapped him for it.

I’m not a huge fan of Yosuke or Yukiko, but it was uncalled for and made me dislike Yukiko even more.

They need to not bring this back in the next game. It makes the girls unlikeable.
"Don't be asinine." - Ravus Nox Fleuret when asked a stupid question.

User Info: Heartfang

Heartfang
6 months ago#90
Because it was important in all of the games previously. Being a wildcard isn't something that they hand out in Persona 3-5. The fact that they brushed it off is inconsistency. Again being a wildcard is a big deal in the Persona universe to the point that Elizabeth spent several games trying to achieve it and left the VR and they reacted when it was discovered that Aigis was one. It's never brought up again in P5, it's just dropped like that, and there's no mention or reaction from it. Which shows that the game was rushed when a major plot point is treated as a NPC segment. Nobody in the PT said "Holy hell this guy is like Joker!" Considering that there was reaction to everything else in the game (such as Akechi being able to use berserk powers,) it's out of place.

Akechi's redemption is again, saving the PT and doing the right thing at the last minute. But it doesn't get the point across because it's rushed and half arsed. He had a chance to clearly kill them and instead saved the PT's lives by sealing himself with his cognition, that would clearly kill them all. His 'death' is up for debt too. In major media no body doesn't equal death. Happens in several anime series and video games.


Yeah the fact that Akechi had more than one persona was given a pretty big reaction from the party.

It was also a pretty big deal to the overall plot too. Not why you think just because it wasn't focused on all the time that it wasn't presented as important.

Just because he sacrificed himself doesn't mean he redeems himself either.
Common sense is just wisdom with its sleeves rolled up
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