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  3. Heihachi was always evil

User Info: OJF90

OJF90
10 months ago#11
TheTsiribomOne posted...
Yes he is evil. But theres something that makes me wonder...
How on earth after executing Kazumi and throwing Kazuya off the cliff, why did he accept to protect and give shelter to Jin, tutoring him and stuff, when a direct descendant of Kazuya would definitely carry the devil gene? He lived 4 years with him...
And this part of the timeline isnt explored at all on 7...


Because Heihachi was grooming him to lure out Ogre, who attacked some of the strongest fighters from Tekken 2.

Jin, who had the Devil’s Blood, The Kazama’s unique power( I think), Mishima Blood, and was trained by Hei in the Mishima-Ryu and by his mother in the Kazama style, would be the perfect bait for Ogre.

User Info: TheTsiribomOne

TheTsiribomOne
10 months ago#12
OJF90 posted...
TheTsiribomOne posted...
Yes he is evil. But theres something that makes me wonder...
How on earth after executing Kazumi and throwing Kazuya off the cliff, why did he accept to protect and give shelter to Jin, tutoring him and stuff, when a direct descendant of Kazuya would definitely carry the devil gene? He lived 4 years with him...
And this part of the timeline isnt explored at all on 7...


Because Heihachi was grooming him to lure out Ogre, who attacked some of the strongest fighters from Tekken 2.

Jin, who had the Devil’s Blood, The Kazama’s unique power( I think), Mishima Blood, and was trained by Hei in the Mishima-Ryu and by his mother in the Kazama style, would be the perfect bait for Ogre.

Yes i know, but given the fact that Kazumi attacked him out of the blue wouldt that be a risk for him to take (to live again under the same roof with someone with the devil gene)?
TsiribimTsiribom

User Info: Mama99

Mama99
10 months ago#13
With all this bull crap about Heihachi being evil/greedy only after killing Kazumi. Maybe Tekken 7's story truly is a threat to the Tekken series. It's all screwed from there.
3D Fighting game junky and slowly becoming an anime freak! I will harness my quan and train to get better.

User Info: bvillebro

bvillebro
10 months ago#14
TheTsiribomOne posted...
Yes he is evil. But theres something that makes me wonder...
How on earth after executing Kazumi and throwing Kazuya off the cliff, why did he accept to protect and give shelter to Jin, tutoring him and stuff, when a direct descendant of Kazuya would definitely carry the devil gene? He lived 4 years with him...
And this part of the timeline isnt explored at all on 7...

because at the time, there was no Devil "Gene". Devil branded jins body, something Heihachi didnt know about
Learning something new everyday

User Info: Spoofer

Spoofer
10 months ago#15
"At the same time [Heihachi] noticed that Jin, the youngest of Mishima bloodline, began to show the same "dangerous power" as Kazuya had. Heihachi decided to dispose of Jin after he lured the God of Fighting in order to end the doomed destiny of the MFE."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE5lTiVuFkY

He knew all along. At the time of T3's writing, it was because he knew about the Devil via Kazuya in T2. Again, in Hei's T3 ending, he only chucks Jin out of the chopper after he showed signs of transforming, and he seemed to be intently watching for those signs all along. Wonder why that is...

T7 also explicitly states that Hei was willing to let Kaz die if he didn't inherit Devil's powers, but was satisfied in his way of testing if Kaz had it or not after Kaz survived the cliff incident. He then continued raising him, adopted Lee to be his rival and push his abilities further, etc. So then you ask yourself why that is. Probably the same reason he continued training Jin. To serve his agenda.

I stated this in another topic as well, but the story doesn't really change. From the classic games, Heihachi was willing to sacrifice a weakling son, but willing to raise a strong one that could live up to his name. T7 doesn't change this. It just adds the fact that Heihachi was willing to raise a son who had inherited Devil's powers. Again as I said in that thread, he reluctantly killed Kazumi only when she wouldn't back down and remained a threat to him, but he probably thought he could control child Kazuya, or young adult Kazuya, just as he planned the same for Jin. Kazumi's reasons for wanting to kill Heihachi stemmed from her clan, it wasn't necessarily just her Devil component that wanted him dead. So perhaps he reasoned he could raise Kazuya in a way to have him and his Devil powers on his side. But obviously he made a mess of it, with Kaz remaining bitter about being tossed off the cliff and Hei killing his mother and all, and in general Hei's attitude towards him, and it went to s***. Obviously Hei let it all go on too long and it ended up costing him.

As for Hei in general, "evil" is such a silly term to be banding about. It's a subjective and needlessly oversimplified descriptor when describing human motivation. Everyone simply operates under their desires, motivations, and agendas. Hei's largely stemmed from a desire for strength and power, largely no matter the cost, and he operated as such. However, he ended up more or less adopting Xiaoyu, and even trained Panda to act as her bodyguard. He didn't have to do any of that. He respected and was seemingly fond of her. Xiao's T3 ending has Hei's greed and vanity trump his respect for her, but the ending itself was non-canon and she continues living with him and within the Zaibatsu in future games, and various Xiao moments in T5 and T6, and even Blood Vengeance IIRC, insinuate that Xiao still largely respects and cares for Heihachi quite a bit. So it's not like the guy has no redeeming qualities, or no capacity for caring about various people around him.

IIRC, T7 never explicitly states whether what he did to Jinpachi or Kazumi came first. Story Mode merely indicated it occurred within the same year. Correct me if I'm wrong. Kazumi entered Hei's life when she was a child, long before any of that happened, so she or her clan predicted Hei would become a danger to the world long before any of that. But it's certainly possible that having to kill Kazumi was what triggered Hei to just go balls to the wall and become an iron mother f***er who would go to any lengths to achieve what he wants. That would be even more tragic. Or not. We don't know. But it does make clear he did genuinely care for her. And so what, that's natural. Again, Xiao proves he's capable of it, so long as the people he could potentially care about don't interfere in his plans. If they do, the series is consistent that Hei will be Hei. Again, T7 doesn't really retcon him.
I mean are some of you people blind? http://i.imgur.com/AfnnCvy.png?1
You CLEARLY see a wing forming, and Devil's aura. ~ienzo105

User Info: bvillebro

bvillebro
10 months ago#16
Spoofer posted...
"At the same time [Heihachi] noticed that Jin, the youngest of Mishima bloodline, began to show the same "dangerous power" as Kazuya had. Heihachi decided to dispose of Jin after he lured the God of Fighting in order to end the doomed destiny of the MFE."

i think this quote has been posted on this board before; its from a Prima Guide written by Simon Hill, i dont believe its canon

I also thought you were part of the camp that believed Heihachi never encountered Devil in Tekken 2

T7 also explicitly states that Hei was willing to let Kaz die if he didn't inherit Devil's powers, but was satisfied in his way of testing if Kaz had it or not after Kaz survived the cliff incident. He then continued raising him, adopted Lee to be his rival and push his abilities further, etc. So then you ask yourself why that is. Probably the same reason he continued training Jin. To serve his agenda.


If that was his intent all along, then why throw Jin out of a window, rather than getting him locked up so he can be used if thats what he wanted? He even defeated True Ogre whereas Jin had failed, so Jin shouldnt have been a threat to him
Learning something new everyday

User Info: Spoofer

Spoofer
10 months ago#17
bvillebro posted...
i think this quote has been posted on this board before; its from a Prima Guide written by Simon Hill, i dont believe its canon


I pulled it from TZ, and TZ's profiles have always been sourced straight from Namco, either as their own translations of the Japanese profiles, or from Namco's official English translations.

Bamco Japan's official sites still exist for all past games, though their T3 sites only contain the profiles for the initial 10 characters, that I've found.

http://bandainamcoent.co.jp/am/vg/tekken3/

However, TZ's profiles are direct translations of those official Bamco Japan profiles, so I see no reason for any of the others to deviate. I could go digging through Japanese sites to try to confirm, but that's far more effort than I wish to put in. As I said, given the consistency of the default 10 profiles, I see no reason to doubt they're not cannon.

EDIT: Wth, it only took a few minutes. I basically searched for a few sentences of Jin's official profile (in Japanese), and found the following site. All of its profiles seem copy/pasted from the official Namco profiles, so I imagine Heihachi and the other time release T3 characters were as well. Heihachi's Japanese profile on that site is, again, exactly the same as TZ's English translation. There's really no doubt it's canon.

http://www3.ic-net.or.jp/~t-nao/ttt/t-story-heihachi.html

bvillebro posted...
I also thought you were part of the camp that believed Heihachi never encountered Devil in Tekken 2


rooooofl, no no no. I am, and have always been, the exact opposite. As I've posted in other threads recently (and in the past), there's far more compelling evidence, and narrative intent, to believe Hei faced Kazuya transformed into Devil at the end of T2.
I mean are some of you people blind? http://i.imgur.com/AfnnCvy.png?1
You CLEARLY see a wing forming, and Devil's aura. ~ienzo105

User Info: Spoofer

Spoofer
10 months ago#18
bvillebro posted...
If that was his intent all along, then why throw Jin out of a window, rather than getting him locked up so he can be used if thats what he wanted? He even defeated True Ogre whereas Jin had failed, so Jin shouldnt have been a threat to him


That was most likely his intent with Kazuya (otherwise, why not kill him when he's a child, injured at the bottom of the cliff or at any other moment).

Hei paid the price for allowing him to grow up with that power unchecked. He lost to Kaz in T1. He, probably barely, managed to beat Kazuya, and most likely Kazuya transformed into Devil, in T2. When he tossed Kaz into the volcano, it then became clear that Hei was no longer willing to take that risk. One could then easily infer that, since Jin most likely showcased even more natural talent than Kaz had, and Hei was now 70 some years old, that he wasn't going to be taking that risk with Jin any longer than he had to either, after using him to draw out or defeat Ogre was accomplished.

In the canon, it's obviously Jin who defeats True Ogre. In either Jin or Hei's ending, after Ogre has been dealt with, Hei fulfills what was stated in his profile, of getting rid of Jin because he knows he's too dangerous (because of Devil, which again he knew about all along, because T2). But by then it was too late, or alternatively he never stood a chance at getting rid of him to begin with, thanks to the Devil's Blood. But obviously it's clear that a Devil Mishima stands far more of a threat to Hei than anything else, and Hei knew this.

He only realized he needed Devil's Blood as far as making use of Ogre's powers afterward, leading up to T4. If he had known all along, obviously he wouldn't have tried to get rid of or made an enemy out of Jin. And if he had known as far back as T2 (as again, elements of T1 and T2 lay the ground work to infer that perhaps Hei knew of Ogre for a long, long time), he probably would have gotten what he needed from Kaz at some point, certainly before tossing him into the volcano.
I mean are some of you people blind? http://i.imgur.com/AfnnCvy.png?1
You CLEARLY see a wing forming, and Devil's aura. ~ienzo105

User Info: icecutter17

icecutter17
10 months ago#19
Spoofer posted...
"At the same time [Heihachi] noticed that Jin, the youngest of Mishima bloodline, began to show the same "dangerous power" as Kazuya had. Heihachi decided to dispose of Jin after he lured the God of Fighting in order to end the doomed destiny of the MFE."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE5lTiVuFkY



nice embed dude

yes, I'm sorry but this shows to me that sorry Heihachi was not all evil. Just don't buy it

sure he hated Kaz, but look at his face as he flings Jin away, he is sad, melancholic. He had love for his grandson.

Saying that Heihachi was all round evil is too simplistic.
Even angels cast shadows

User Info: icecutter17

icecutter17
10 months ago#20
Also guys:

https://youtu.be/Jdaztc2L2Es

yehh, you forgot about that one didn't you?

Heihachi, perhaps in a fit of madness who knows, sacrifices himself to save his son Kazuya

you think you know Heihachi? Think again
Even angels cast shadows
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