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User Info: Evillordexdeath

Evillordexdeath
2 months ago#11
Final Thoughts: Sid Meier's Civilzation V
What I thought of Civ V: A fun, interesting strategy game, and likely my pick for GotY 2010
Would I play Civ V again? I'm certain I will.
Did it deserve to lose round 1? I was rooting for it.

As of this writing, I've played Civilization V for around 750 hours, making it probably one of my top 3 most played games of all time. It's easy to look at that and say I wouldn't play it that long if it wasn't worth playing, but that is a little bit conditional. League of Legendsmight be my most-played game overall, but I feel a bit of resentment toward it for that reason. I wish I had taken all the time I put into League and done something else instead, even if it was just playing 30 different narrative video games from start to finish. Sometimes playing it is like a bad habit - I just mindlessly start a match when I can't think of anything else to do with my time.

That game is only intermittently fun, though. There are too many times when you're stuck in a rut, either from your own mistakes or someone else's, just waiting for a match to end. No matter how well you play, you'll always get flamed by your own team-mates. Civ V doesn't have those problems. It's usually fun, and usually relaxing. Sometimes the outcome of a game is already clear and playing it to completion loses its tension, but you're not obligated to finish that particular game in such cases - it's extremely open to being played in shorter, low-investment bursts, which is part of its addictive appeal.

I'd say the game strikes a good balance between accessibility and depth. Strategy games like Starcraft II or Europa Universalis IVtend to present new players with an intimidating barrier of technical complexity, but Civ V can be picked up with one casual low-difficulty campaign, for the most part. That being said, I'm still learning new tricks after hundreds of hours playing the game - and that helps keep it interesting enough that I'm still coming back after all that time.

I wish the civs were more balanced, and there are times when optimizing my civ feels like a bit of a chore. The most obvious example of this is keeping track of and fulfilling city-state quests, but there are also things like tile and specialist management, unit placement, worker management, and exploration that can occupy an uncomfortable middle ground between too tedious to do manually and too complex yet important to automate. War tends to get tiring because both countries can continually produce soldiers which often leads to very slow, drawn-out, painful sieges. There's value in that when it comes to simulating the experience of war, but it can also drag down the pace of the game and make me want to quit playing. This is especially true in multiplayer, where declaring war turns on asynchronous turns and instantly increases the length of a turn by several times over. Sometimes it feels like the meta-game is too prevalent and I'm going through the motions of similar strategies every game, especially on the higher, more restrictive difficulties. It's also regrettable that the AI is inept to the point where it can only be challenging if it's simply allowed to cheat. I accept problems like these in part because I think they're inherent to the genre. I've never found a Grand Strategy game that is impervious to getting bogged down in optimization, where war never drags, or where the AI is capable. And as someone with a major interest in this genre, Civ V remains one of my favorites.
I'm playing every game from GotD 2020! Games Completed: 10/129
Currently Playing: Sid Meier's Civilization V
(edited 2 months ago)

User Info: Evillordexdeath

Evillordexdeath
2 months ago#12
BetrayedTangy posted...
Oh damn has it really been two weeks already? I feel like I'm finally starting to understand the game lol.

I did end with two ongoing playthroughs (my Russia one as well as a third attempt on Babylon) so I might come back to the game now and again and post about it.

Russia can be a bit of an all-or-nothing civ depending on which strategic resources you find nearby you, but I do think the production bonus they get is pretty handy. I guess it's nice to research animal husbandry and bronze working early on so you know where horses and iron are when founding your cities, since the production bonus is valuable. The extra copies of those resources aren't needed imo, but you can sell them to AI. Don't feel obligated to build your Krepost before you would a barracks - the bonus isn't that important. The higher difficulties are definitely all about fending off early aggression from the AI, so it can often be better to get out a few units instead of/before building a barracks. The ideal situation is that your army is big enough to dissuade enemies from attacking altogether, but I do find that they never really attack you if they aren't right on your borders needing to kill you to expand, so you can also keep that in mind and take advantage of it if you start further from the AI civs.

I'll be going to bed pretty soon, but afterward I'll start my next game:

Fallout: New Vegas
I Will Be Playing On: Playstation 3
Previous Experience with New Vegas: Played the first couple hours
Expectations for New Vegas: A masterpiece developed by saints.

Okay, so first of all, I have a contrarian friend who once said that he doesn't feel Obsidian are the saints people make them out to be, which the rest of my friends and I ran with ever since, so that we aren't allowed to refer to them as anything else except "Those saints at Obsidian," and it's stuck with me to the point where I can hardly think of them in any other way.

The reception of Fallout: New Vegas is kind of interesting to me, in that I remember it being considered a minor disappointment and inferior to Fallout 3 upon initial release but it seems to have grown on people over time and the popular conception is now that Bethesda Fallout is kind of lame and NV is far superior. Part of that is almost definitely just people's growing dislike for Bethesda as a company speaking, part of it is that NV's more egregious stability issues and bugs have been patched out over the years, and part of it is that NV genuinely does have a decent amount of depth and detail in its RPG design.

I love the original two Fallout games, and Obsidian are the successors to the now defunct developer of those two, Black Isle, with some of the same staff working on NV. It was consciously conceived as a spiritual successor to Fallout 2 in particular, set closer both geographically and chronologically to that game than to Fallout 3. It has more build options, more stat checks in dialog, and a much more choice-based story than Fallout 3.

But it still has that Bethesda awkwardness that prevents me from getting too into Skyrim. The stiff character animations, immersion-breaking bugs, ugly graphics, and wide but low detail game world all fit in with the parent company's output, which is no surprise considering it was built in the same engine as Fallout 3. I've started playing New Vegas a lot of times, but never gotten past the tower area with all the ghouls, and usually stopped before then.

This is another one of those games where I have a mix of excitement and trepidation toward going back to it. I want to play it all the way through and see some of those qualities that make people like it so much (I know there are a few people on this board who would name it their Game of the Decade,) but I've tried that multiple times without success so far, and I can't help but think there's a reason.

I'm playing every game from GotD 2020! Games Completed: 11/129
Currently Playing: Fallout: New Vegas

User Info: BetrayedTangy

BetrayedTangy
2 months ago#13
So I've elected to give up on my Civ 5 goal.

While I do enjoy the game, King difficulty is far too much for me. I was having a wonderful game as the Aztecs. Where I was secluded at the top of the map. I was moving at a quick pace, but of course Napoleon declares war. However I successfully fended him off for the entire game, I was using this to my advantage thanks to the Aztec's Culture Bonus from defeated enemies, I was actually doing well.

Then tragedy struck. He offered me a peace treaty that was the typical long list of demands. A mix of me being tired and eager to push him off of me for a little bit led to me accepting it and well I didn't notice one of his demands.

Apparently you can take other cities through peace treaties. So the City I spent the whole game defending was now his and I was bankrupt. Basically making me waste the past four hours. I fully intend to play this game casually in the future, but for now I need to move on.

https://www.backloggery.com/betrayedtangerin

User Info: Evillordexdeath

Evillordexdeath
2 months ago#14
Finally started New Vegas last night. Let's get right into it.

Arthur Carbuncle was a courier for the Mojave Express. His work meant spending more time outside than most folks could handle. Sometimes the stuff he carried was expensive, and bandits always thought we'd make an easy paycheck. His job title was deliveryman, but the bulk of his real work was in killing. He wasn't fond of killing people, he liked people, but it was what he was good at, and Art was not a man to waste the skills God gave him.

Today he woke up in a doctor's office with a bad headache and a bald man standing over him. The man called himself Doc Mitchell and filled Art in on what had happened over the last few days (he didn't remember so well himself.) Apparently a group of armed men had captured him, shot him in the head, and buried him in a shallow grave so they could take a package he'd been delivering. It was only the generosity of a robot named Victor who had dug him up and the Doc who worked on him that he was still breathing. He also had Art answer some questions about himself, like a shrink would, and made him use a machine to test his physical attributes:

Strength: 4
Perception: 6
Endurance: 6
Charisma: 7
Intelligence: 8
Agility: 6
Luck: 3

Traits: Good Natured, Trigger Discipline
Tag Skills: Explosives, Guns, Speech

He thanked the doc for his help and then stepped out into the town of Goodsprings. First he made a point of finding the robot who had dug him up and saying thanks to him too, and then, as the doc had ordered, he went and talked to a woman named Sunny Smiles who knew her way around a firearm. He felt a bit patronized when she had him fire at empty soda bottles, but he gave it a shot to see if his head injury had damaged his aim. He got through that alright, and then Sunny offered to pay him if he helped her round up some Geckos on the outskirts of town. That was easy enough. They found a woman getting attacked by some of the damned critters but between the pair of them they shot them down before she came to any harm.

Art figured he could use some more cash and supplies before he left town, so he went looking for any odd jobs he could do. Someone told him about an old safe in the schoolhouse which he managed to open electronically, and Trudy at the bar had him repair an old radio. The only other thing anyone wanted help with was fending off some thugs called the Powder Gang who were threatening this guy named Ringo who had been sheltering in Goodsprings for a while. The town had been good to Art, so he figured he owed them one. He rounded up some help and lent his own rifle to the cause, killing the attack force's leader and one other man on his own, and helping himself to the things they were carrying. He was now:

Idolized in Goodsprings
Shunned by Powder Gang

The extra experience helped sharpen his gun skills back up and gave him his first feat: Confirmed Bachelor (+10% damage against male humans and some unique dialog options with the same sex.)

A man just outside of Goodsprings told him that his girlfriend was stranded on top of some cliffs about to get killed by geckos. Art went exterminating but all he found was a fridge with some old meat inside and a 10mm pistol with some rounds. The man tried to kill him over this stash, but Art drew faster. Guy can't have been too bright - a few bullets were hardly worth dying over.

Now that he was feeling a little better, he decided he would track down the guys who had stolen his delivery, get it back, and bring it to its buyer. His job had its hazards, but it was still what he was best at, and he didn't want this incident hanging over his next employee review. He set off for the town of Primm, where there was a Mojave Express office. He found the place quick enough, but it wasn't in its best shape - some NCR guys told him a few escaped cons had shot the sherrif and taken over the town. The troopers didn't want to go shoot the place up without more supplies and some backup, but Art was in a hurry so he went in and dealt with the convicts himself.

There were two guys outside he had to take out to get into the Mojave building, but it was empty in any case - he found the man in charge, Nash, lounging around a casino across the street. The old guy told him that another courier had originally been given his assignment - to deliver a chip - but had chickened out for some reason when he saw Art's name below his on the list. He also asked him to free a deputy named Beagle who was being held in the local hotel, which he didn't mind doing. The bandits were a little thicker on the ground there, but he got through just fine on his own, and picked up a flamethrower from the leader's body. He wasn't sure he'd use it himself, but he could probably sell it for a decent price.

That deputy wasn't looking for a promotion, and asked Art to go find a new sherrif instead. They suggested a guy in some NCR jail as one option and just selling out the whole town to the Republic as another, but he decided to reprogram this old robot they had guarding the casino, called Primm Slim, to do the job instead. A robot had saved his skin before, so he figured another one might do the same for other folks. Only problem was, he wasn't good enough with computers to do the coding on the damn thing.
I'm playing every game from GotD 2020! Games Completed: 11/129
Currently Playing: Fallout: New Vegas

User Info: Evillordexdeath

Evillordexdeath
2 months ago#15
BetrayedTangy posted...
So I've elected to give up on my Civ 5 goal.

It sounds like our experiences with Civ V were kind of similar. I got worn out trying to win on 7 the same way you did. I did find it disheartening to lose multiple times in a row. I don't mind going through the process of studying the game's mechanics so I can win on the highest difficulties, in theory, but in the context of a longer project like this it would take too much time. I do also think the higher difficulties can be less fun because they're more restrictive in terms of which strategies are viable. If you do go back to the game and play it some more, even casually, I bet you'll get good enough to win on difficulty 5 without much trouble eventually.

-

I'm guessing that any NV veterans who read my SPECIAL build felt a little bit of temptation to yell at their screens. If you don't know, some stats, especially Charisma, kind of blow in this game. Most things are based on your skills rather than your stats. Persuade checks, for example, just succeed if your speech is high enough. No dice roll, no influence from Charisma. There are apparently two checks in the whole game that actually use your Charisma, so it's quite worthless. You can pass the very hardest speech checks in the game even if you dump the stat all the way down to 1. Perception is also under-powered because it has no influence on ranged weapon accuracy or damage. I think the best stats are intelligence for skill points per level, endurance for hp per level, and luck for critical hits. Agility is also not bad if you like to use VATS. The stats I went with are kind of a compromise between power-gaming and role-playing. I imagined my character as kind of a sociable but not terribly moral gunslinger, so I wanted his Charisma and Perception to be decent at least, but I still went with intelligence as the highest stat and some points in Endurance and Agility because I don't want to handicap myself too much in the combat. So far I can get by just by running up to people and queuing up headshot in VATS, pretty much, so here's hoping I'll be alright moving forward.

I don't think this is the best system, by the way. I strikes me as a bit silly that you can have 1 charisma and still talk down the final boss. I'm glad RNG doesn't play a role, but maybe a better system would be to combine the speech stat and a multiplication of your charisma to decide if you pass a speech check, and then raise the difficulty of most checks. If Charisma is more a measure of how physically attractive your character is, then some more checks with it alone would be appreciated, even if they're just flavor. Of course, the sheer size of this game makes implementing a lot of stat checks in random dialog perhaps one task too many, I understand that much.
I'm playing every game from GotD 2020! Games Completed: 11/129
Currently Playing: Fallout: New Vegas

User Info: BetrayedTangy

BetrayedTangy
2 months ago#16
Eh Charisma has some use. It's really good early on, since it can help get you Speech checks and cheaper prices when you're at your weakest. Plus it's required for the Animal Friend perk, which makes certain dungeons a cakewalk.

Perception also has its uses. Lockpick is really useful for getting extra stuff early on. Plus my favorite use is the compass enhancement. It helps for exploring the wasteland since you can spot some of the more dangerous enemies before they spot you and react accordingly.

They're both a lot more niche then say Strength, Intelligence and Endurance. Regardless I think they cool thing about the Fallout games is it encourages a whole slew of playstyles.

Personally I'm going with
S: 5
P: 8
E: 6
C: 3
I: 8
A: 6
L: 3

I made a similar amount of progress and also decided to help Goodsprings. I think I'm two extra towns ahead tho. I'm actually thinking about doubling back to Goodsprings and just making a straight shot towards New Vegas. I've got enough Stealth Boys and Antivenom at this point. I should be able to make it past the enemies fairly easily.
https://www.backloggery.com/betrayedtangerin

User Info: Evillordexdeath

Evillordexdeath
2 months ago#17
I've played through the intro a ton of times, but even as someone who likes to vary choices between playthroughs I've never sided with the Powder Gang over Goodsprings. It just seems too cruel and irrational. The people at Goodsprings drag you out of your grave and nurse you back to health, and then you just immediately betray them for no real reason really. I'd only do that if I were role-playing as some kind of psychopath.

In terms of SPECIAL allocation, I think the most questionable thing I did might have been reducing luck, so I was a little surprised to see you do the same. I guess the critical hit bonus from luck is pretty low all things considered, but given the number of shots you fire over the course of the game it still seems pretty decent. I think in the old Fallout games it also effected how likely you were to receive critical hits, which led to my low luck low endurance build getting 1HKO'd by a lot of random crits. It's true that getting a higher starting lockpick or persuade/barter skill has some value, but I think it's probably better to just tag those skills or pump a lot of points into them in an early level with a high intelligence build if you want to make use of them. There is also the companion nerve mechanic, but I imagine the issue with that bonus is that the companion AI isn't too good at the combat. I think Fallout 2 had a slightly better solution to making Charisma worth a damn since it impacted how many companions you could have at once to begin with, and I think it had a few more checks for the stat but they were all just for getting laid, lol. It was still kind of under-powered in that game. I think I get more riled when Charisma in particular is weak because I love persuasion builds in RPGs and like to pump it in every game I play.

Incidentally, I only tagged explosives so I could pass the check in the goodsprings quest and then switched it over to barter when I got the opportunity to remake my character. I don't think I've prioritized it in any of my previous short-lived playthroughs, but it does seem to be paying off and has helped me get better supplied in terms of ammo and food/water (since I'm playing the survival mode) than I usually am.
I'm playing every game from GotD 2020! Games Completed: 11/129
Currently Playing: Fallout: New Vegas

User Info: Evillordexdeath

Evillordexdeath
2 months ago#18
There wasn't much on the road between Primm and Nipton except giant bugs and a few bandits, but partway through the trip Art got the feeling that he could go back and try reprogramming old Primm Slim again, so he turned around to give it a shot, and sure enough, it worked - the town had a new Sheriff.

On the road he found a man trying to run away while a woman shot at him. Since the guy was on the run, Art took out the woman. The man's name was Tomas and he said that he'd been flirting with the girl until she saw his lucky necklace of bottle caps with stars on them and attacked him for it. A little while later some old guy came walking up to Art and told him about this weird legend that the star caps somehow lead to a great treasure. Tomas' little lady wasn't the only person to try killing someone over them, according to the old guy. It seemed like another stupid thing to die for.

He found Nipton in even worse shape than the last town over. Some guys called Caesar's Legion had torched the place and massacred the people. A lot of the bodies had been burned, and some people were hanging, still barely alive, on crucifixes. The Legion boys were still around, and one fella wearing a dog on his head ordered Art to tell of what had happened there, and he would - he'd seen some sick puppies in his day, but these Legion guys took the cake.

A lot of the bodies in Nipton were Powder Gangers, and he found one of them still alive with busted up legs. Apparently the Legion held a lottery after they rounded up the town, let the winner go free, broke the runner-up's kneecaps, and took a couple people as slaves, and then butchered everyone else. The slaves were headed east and hadn't gone too far, so Art had a mind to try and free them. He found them in a little camp between the mountains, and went sneaking in with a Stealth boy to untie the captives while their guards weren't looking. It looked like they got away safely.

He had some injuries from a few fights on the road, so he decided to head back to Goodsprings and have the doc take a look at him. He slept in Victor's shack that night, since he trusted the robot more than anyone, and traded in some stuff he'd found at the general store. He was doing pretty well financially - it was starting to look like exploring and doing odd jobs was a better use of his skill-set than his old job ever was. While he was in the area, he thought he'd get some work from the Powder Gang down at the NCR jailhouse. Maybe he could patch things over with them after the attack at Goodsprings. It would be better not to have their whole gang as enemies. The boss there wanted him to whack some former friend of his who was muscling in on the roads he liked to rob, since all his own men turned up dead if he sent them. It was an easy job, though - Art talked the guy into buzzing off before a single shot was fired. They had him do the same thing to some bounty hunter and then asked him to recon Primm in case the NCR were planning to attack the gang. He found out from Nash back in town that they were. He could go warn the Powder Gang, but he also thought about helping out the NCR with their attack instead. He'd rather see them win, since the Powder Gang weren't very nice people at the end of the day, but he decided to stay out of it. Neither side was worth risking his own neck over, and he didn't want to step on either set of toes. He'd just barely managed to get Mixed Reputation with Powder Gang as it was. Now wasn't the time to screw that up.

On the way back to Nipton, he stopped at an NCR base to buy some more supplies. He tried talking to a few of the guys there, but it was odd: when he asked how they liked the work, they all said the exact same thing: "Patrolling the Mojave almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter." One guy named Knight seemed a little antsy. He said he didn't want to make friends because his coworkers wouldn't approve. A scrape with some Night Stalkers and a few dead bandits later he was in Novac, his last lead on the guys who almost killed him. He bumped into Victor there, who said he'd had a strange impulse to travel to Vegas. It was nice to see him, anyway. There was a gift shop selling dinosaur figures. Art only went there for supplies, but the guy at the desk seemed so let down that no one wanted the toys that he bought one just to cheer him up.

He talked to a guy named Manny who had met the thugs Art was looking for. He wanted a favor for the information, but Art buttered him up a little and got it out of him that way. The guy still asked him to help with his problem, which was a ghoul infestation at an old factory Novac's economy relied on. Maybe he'd look into it. Manny had an old friend named Boone who hadn't been himself since his wife died. Art talked to the guy, who was convinced someone in town had sold his wife as a slave to the Legion. He wanted help finding out who it was and getting even. Art had to read a locksmith's magazine to brush up on his skills, but he managed to bust into a floor safe in the town's motel and find written proof that someone really had sold out Boone's wife - it had been Jeannie May, the proprietor. He felt bad about it, she seemed like a nice enough old lady otherwise, but if she had done something like that before she could do it again, so Art tricked the old girl into standing in front of the town's big dinosaur statue so Boone could get a clean shot at her. Afterward he convinced the guy to come along for the ride with him. He didn't seem like he'd be much fun to have around, but maybe he'd be handy in a fight.

New perks: Educated (+2 skill points per level,) Comprehension (increased effect for skill books and magazines
I'm playing every game from GotD 2020! Games Completed: 11/129
Currently Playing: Fallout: New Vegas

User Info: Evillordexdeath

Evillordexdeath
2 months ago#19
Alright, so let me cut the roleplay crap for a minute and talk about my impressions of the game so far.

I'd say it's going pretty well. I played for a long time last night just wandering around, trying things out, and doing quests. I find it more engaging than a lot of games I've played for this project. In comparison to the old Fallout games, I'd say what strikes me most is that while the combat is a lot better, it's also much more central to the experience and I wouldn't say I like that. In Fallout 2 it was possible to play for hours without getting into any fights, and the game was at its best when you were playing that way. So far a big part of New Vegas is, like in Skyrim, wandering around, looting the places you find, and getting into fights with random passerby. There are a good few quests that have non-combat solutions, but so far just as many can't really be done without a fight. To be fair, the old games had quests like that too.

I've always had the impression that Bethesda's games were designed with a quantity over quality philosophy, whether with respect to the quests, the characters, the areas, or anything else, and I think that has prevented me from enjoying them as much as I might. I'd say that shows in New Vegas too. It's been a pretty frequent experience for me to be kind of disappointed by the lack of detail in the character behaviors and dialog options in particular, to the point where, also in classic Bethesda fashion, the game isn't all that immersive. For example, the dialog from most NPCs in a place like Goodsprings doesn't change even if your reputation is different or you're dressed up as a Powder Ganger - in fact, the dialog with the Powder Gangers seems to be the same whether you're disguised as one of their buddies or not. A few things I was a especially let down by were how even after reprogramming Primm Slim into a Sheriff bot and finding him outside he still talks as if he's in the casino, how there were no options to use the medicine skill or a doctor's bag to help Boxcars with his leg (which seemed like an obvious thing to include. Yes you can give him painkillers but he still just sits in the convenience store for all of eternity,) and how even after finding the evidence that Jeannie May sold out Boone wife there is no new dialog with her where you talk about how you know what she did, you just use the generic "let me show you something in front of the dinosaur" line that you can also use to frame someone else. I know it would be a lot of work to include every little idea like that, but this is also the same series that used to re-write every single line of player character dialog if your intelligence was below a certain threshold. I could see it benefiting from mods that flesh out some quests.

As a first companion, I have to say I find Boone to be a pretty unappealing character, and there aren't really any other stand-outs yet except maybe Victor. I know the story gets a lot more interesting to most players once characters like Benny, Caesar and Mr. House come into the picture so here's hoping that will change.
I'm playing every game from GotD 2020! Games Completed: 11/129
Currently Playing: Fallout: New Vegas

User Info: BetrayedTangy

BetrayedTangy
2 months ago#20
So last night I managed to accomplish my goal of reaching New Vegas early (or at least Freeside)

It wasn't easy though. If you attempt to head straight there from Goodsprings, you'll encounter very high level enemies. Most notably the Cazador, giant wasps that move fast, hit hard and poison you.

I attempted to sneak around with my Stealth Boys, but they're Perception must be pretty high because they caught onto me right away and killed me. I needed a new plan. So instead of taking the road, I sort of searched through the cliffs for a way through. Luckily I found an encampment in a canyon. However it was filled with those enemies, so I had to take them out. Fighting a ton of Powder Gangers really paid off, because I had plenty of Dynamite to just lob into the canyon, killing half of them and injuring the others. From there I was able to use VATS to cripple their wings and from there it was a cakewalk.

I used the sleeping bags to fully heal before continuing my adventure. I found my way to an open field and began to explore. I found a small settlement, but quickly realized it was inhabitated by the Viper gang. I had lured their leader away and almost killed them, but their teammates quickly ran over to help and crippled my leg with a grenade. As I was hobbling away bracing for my inevitable death, I saw a horde of Bighorn that had aggroed onto the Vipers. Taking this opportunity I slinked off to the side and let the Bighorns kill the Vipers.

My trek continued, from there it was pretty much a straight shot. I did discover Vault 19 on my way and eventually there I was I had made it. I entered the outskirts of New Vegas; Freeside.

I kinda see what you're talking about with the dialogue variety, but it's always a pleasant treat when it happens. When I found Boxcars, he wasn't happy to see me as I was vilified with the Powder Gangers at that point. I totally agree with your complaints on the characters and quests. The real strength of the Bethesda Fallouts for me has been the side quests and unique locations. It has a wonderful sense of exploration.
https://www.backloggery.com/betrayedtangerin
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