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User Info: SaveEstelle

SaveEstelle
1 month ago#51
scarletspeed7 posted...
I get it off of season one, and I'm not a massive defender of the character, but she was SO much better in season two.

Eddv dropping the show two episodes into the superior season makes me sad but them’s the breaks. Also, agreed. Burnham is substantially improved.

ZenOfThunder posted...
every time I watch the episode where Wesley destroys the flowerbed on the Hot Dude Sex Planet™ and the two almost naked guys trot over and take out the lethal syringe to execute him on the spot I literally lose my s*** in an uncontrollable laughing fit

someone in a writer's room came up with that as an A plot for an episode

it's unironically one of the highlights of TNG for me


It’s SO BAD I love it

@Vengeful_KBM “CHAKOTAY MUST BOX” peak Board 8 meme we are the best

Hi! I'm Quinton.
Did you know that Emilia Clarke will be my wife in 2023?

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Anagram
1 month ago#52
55. Tasha Yar
“I’m sorry, Captain. I’m leaving the show now to pursue a film acting career. I’ll be in such hits as Deep Impact and Mafia Docks.”

Has anyone ever made a worse career move than Denise Crosby? I guess she couldn’t have known how TNG would explode after she left, but damn, she must regret that decision every day.

I like the idea of “tough girl from a crazy planet who was rescued by the Federation and is now completely loyal to it” as a starting point for a character. Too bad that’s where her character ends. I guess she has more backstory than Geordi, though, so who am I to laugh?

Denise Crosby has stated that she abandoned the show because her character didn’t get enough little interactions with others. That’s fine, I guess. It’s probably true. As far as the calculus of characters in TNG goes, she’s definitely the odd man out. Even Wesley fits as someone who can interact with Picard and Crusher easily. Yar’s only friend on the show is Worf, and Worf in season 1 is “I AM A WARRIOR, I ADVISE WE FIRE ALL PHASERS.” We’ll get to Worf later, but I can understand being frustrated with that.

Anyway, Yar is famous for two things: proving that Data is “fully functional” (Data later uses that as evidence for why he’s a living being in a trial to avoid being disassembled, so ****ing a robot is technically Yar’s greatest legacy) and having the stupidest death ever. I wonder what Crusher wrote on her death certificate. “Killed by an angry oil slick.” I understand that they were going for surprise, like “Space is dangerous, anything can happen… even killing actresses who hate the show,” but goddamn, that death was so lame they had to bring Yar back multiple times in time travel episodes.

To me, though, Yar is memorable for two completely different moments. The first is when Wesley asks why people do drugs if they know they’ll get addicted and it’ll ruin their lives. That was compelling television in 1987. The second is when Yar gives us a snippet of her backstory, and it involves Crosby trying to say the words “rape gangs” while looking traumatized.

God, I can’t believe I’m still talking about the main character with the fewest episodes, but so be it. We haven’t even gotten to the episode with the African tribal rapist polygamy planet. Cloak of Honor has the dubious title of “Most Racist Star Trek Episode Ever,” and it will never be defeated. How can you defeat a planet of black tribal guys with spears whose king kidnaps the first blonde he sees and tries to forcibly marry her? That’s Yar’s main episode. That and the one where she dies are the only episodes where she’s the focus character.
Not changing this sig until I decide to change this sig.
Started: July 6, 2005

User Info: Vengeful_KBM

Vengeful_KBM
1 month ago#53
#57. Katherine Pulaski
Dammit, Jean-Luc, I'm a cheap McCoy knockoff, not an original character.”

https://gamefaqs1.cbsistatic.com/user_image/9/8/3/AAPPSkAAAGln.jpg

There was a time when I felt Pulaski got kind of a bad rap. Unfortunately for her, that time has passed. Katherine Pulaski is defined almost exclusively by the things that make her most annoying, namely her refusal to treat Data with any reasonable amount of respect, and her crotchety-old-person attitude that was lifted straight from Dr. McCoy but without any of the charisma and charm that DeForest Kelley lent to the archetype.

Still, she probably would rank a little higher for me if she had any sort of staying power or relevance. Diana Muldaur's performance isn't bad, per se, though it is a bit one-note, and I do still think that, had she been given time, she (and the writers) could theoretically have grown into the character, as happened with so many other Next Generation characters that started weak but turned out great over time. Even if it had been over guest appearances or some such, it would have been nice if the show hadn't just acted like she never existed, though I definitely think it was to the show's benefit they were able to get Beverly Crusher back after her season away. It's not like there weren't recurring characters who were worse on that show (lookin' at you, Lwaxana Troi). As it stands, her existence adds absolutely nothing to Star Trek when all is said and done.

So yeah, there's not too much to say in Pulaski's defense, and I've more or less stopped trying over the years. I don't hate her, and there are characters I've ranked above her that irritate me more, but her complete lack of impact can't help but leave a bad taste in your mouth, and every time I have rewatched Season 2 of TNG, my estimation of her has lessened. The most actively irritating thing about her for me is that when she's around, it means Dr. Crusher isn't. Her best moments come in “Elementary, Dear Data,” one of the first really good episodes of Next Generation, but as the fourth-most important character in that episode, she fills a role there that pretty much any other member of the cast could have filled just as well with only a minor rewrite.

Here is her most tangible contribution to Star Trek lore: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Pulaski%27s_chicken_soup

User Info: ZenOfThunder

ZenOfThunder
1 month ago#54
Every time my friends come over to watch Star Trek we always start and end by watching the Goopster kill Tasha Yasha

I highly recommend this to anyone watching with friends it's a great way to bookend an evening
(|| ' ' ||) drooling while eating
. /|_|\
(edited 1 month ago)

User Info: scarletspeed7

scarletspeed7
1 month ago#55
#59 - Katherine Pulaski

As humanity rocketed towards a harmonious future replete with no true needs and few wants, a being such as Katherine Pulaski represented everything Starfleet was not. Her reliance on old and outmoded practices and ways of thinking seemed to fly in the face of the culture of the Federation, and let's all be honest - she never seemed too excited to be there. Unlike Bones' charming curmudgeonly ways, Pulaski felt like your co-worker who believed they were above everyone else at your job, only deigning to stay employed so they can pick up a paycheck and dash. But in the future, we don't use money, so I question Pulaski's motivation for being on the Enterprise.

And let's make sure we all agree on something: The Enterprise Is The Flagship. Pulaski is emblematic of a problem that permeates through all of the worst crew members - she is far from the best in her position. Despite supposedly being in demand according to her backstory, Pulaski is time and time again lost, hands in the air, waving them like she just don't understand a goddamn difference between a tricorder and a phaser. Constantly questioning the simplest technologies and kvetching and complaining at every turn, Pulaski was unpleasant, an obstacle that forced great stories to stumble. And these stumbles made season two a truly painful puberty for the sophomore Next Generation.
"It is too easy being monsters. Let us try to be human." ~Victor Frankenstein, Penny Dreadful

User Info: SaveEstelle

SaveEstelle
1 month ago#56
ZenOfThunder posted...
Every time my friends come over to watch Star Trek we always start and end by watching the Goopster kill Tasha Yasha

I highly recommend this to anyone watching with friends it's a great way to bookend an evening

I can legitimately confirm this lmao
Hi! I'm Quinton.
Did you know that Emilia Clarke will be my wife in 2023?

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1 month ago#57
54. Michael Burnham
“Captain, did I ever tell you about my adopted human sister Michael? She accidentally started that war you must have fought in, since you’re thirty-four now and it was ten years ago, ended that same war just before the Klingons destroyed Earth (we’re talking minutes before), served on a mushroom-powered starship that could teleport, thus rendering the entire purpose of our modern ships null and void, established that Vulcan mind melds can cross interstellar distances for quick and undetectable communication, traveled to the Mirror Universe before us and saved the MULTIVERSE by destroying the Terran Empire’s throneship, redeemed a Klingon double agent by having sex with him, put the Klingon chancellor on the throne by giving her an iPad that can destroy their home planet, saved all sapient life in the galaxy from herself and her time-traveling mother, defeated a computer program that’s probably meant to be the original Borg but the writers aborted that idea at the last second which just makes it awkward, helped me overcome the dyslexia I never told you I have, is responsible for me being your friend because her last words to me were to find someone unlike myself and get to know him, and also put up with me while I acted emotionally and completely out of character by hating her for twenty years because she said something mildly upsetting to me when I was eight. After she saved the Federation three times (five times, if you count saving the life of someone else who later saves the Federation), she traveled to the far future, so I helped cover up her existence so no one would ever learn about it. That’s easy to do when she’s the daughter of a galaxy-famous diplomat like my father (who also hated me for life, except when she was around) and was so recognizable that ordinary people knew her face because she’d started the war with the Klingons that killed thousands and yet almost defeated a space civilization with a population in the hundreds of billions. Now I know what you’re wondering, and the answer is no, I don’t know why she has a boy name.” – Spock

I roll my eyes at the “Rey is a Mary Sue” argument. She grew up as a junk scavenger, of course she knows about electronics and engines. She defeated Kylo Ren after he was already wounded. I’m sure she learned more about sword fighting between movies. She does learn to wield the Force faster than Luke, but so what? When people say that Rey is a Mary Sue, I really don’t care at all.

Now, let me tell you why Michael Burnham is a Mary Sue.

I KID, I KID.

She’s not guilty of that particular sin, but she is a poorly-written pile of fecal matter with a bad haircut.

I don’t really want to spend this entire write-up complaining about Discovery, so to focus it just on Michael Burnham, here are her chief problems:
1. She’s extremely unlikeable. You could probably write this character to be sympathetic if you were good at your job, but she’s always judgmental and making decisions that cause massive problems.
2. Season 1 is almost entirely from her perspective, which is a problem because she’s so awful. Season 2 eases up on this, which is the only reason it’s better (I’ll talk more about season 2 when we get to Pike and Spock). Season 2 understands that Michael’s only possible use as a character is to be the discount Spock to someone else’s discount Kirk. Let me say this here: Spock does not work alone. He does not work as the main character. He is exclusively a supporting character.
3. She feels nothing like a Starfleet character, although this is a broader problem for all of Discovery. Like can you imagine Kirk or Picard finding a planet of innocent brain-plants that send a signal to the Klingons and Federation to get everyone to negotiate, then saying “The Klingons won’t bother talking, so we need to set a trap to kill them all as fast as possible?”

I think a writer said “Vulcans are logical, humans are emotional, so a human raised by Vulcans should be super smart but prone to emotional outbursts and bad decisions.” That’s not the worst idea, but Michael Burnham’s Vulcanness extends only as far as knowing all science. I’m going to let you in on a little secret about Vulcans: their defining character trait isn’t their ability to say things like “repolarize the antineutrino array by running a phased invertaron pulse.” It’s their ability to make logical deductions based on things the audience has seen and then explain it to their less smart human friends. There’s an episode of TOS where Kirk is like “Spock, what is that thing,” and Spock scans and is like “No clue, dude, but it’s not a solid, liquid, or gas, which means it doesn’t follow our universe’s physical rules, so it’s probably from another dimension.” That ten second interaction has more Vulcanness in it than a thousand scenes of Michael doing super calculus in her head ever could.

If I dislike Burnham so much, you might ask, why is she so “high?” The answer to that is simple. I actually do like one thing about her. The only part of Discovery I like is the Mirror Universe part, because for two episodes it’s almost a real Star Trek. Everyone dresses up in gaudy Warhammer 40K cosplay, there’s a throne made out of painted aluminum tubes, it’s great. Anyway, at the end, the Emperor (who’s the alternate version of Michael’s mentor whom she failed) is like “Yo dude, let me just die, there’s no point in going to your universe.” Michael knows it’s not “her” Philippa Georgiou, but for reasons of emotion still identifies her as her and can’t resist saving this genocidal tyrant in a misguided attempt to undo the mistake she made at the beginning of the show. That’s the one time I was actually interested in Michael’s actions. Interesting me one time is more than Chakotay ever did, so she squeezes into the top of Bad Tier.

This is unrelated to Burnham, but what’s the worst Star Trek Discovery quote? Choose from below.
1. “I like science.” – Spock
2. “Hamlet, **** yeah!” – Michael
3. “This is the power of math, peopleeeeeeeeeeee!” – Tilly
Not changing this sig until I decide to change this sig.
Started: July 6, 2005

User Info: NFUN

NFUN
1 month ago#58
I haven't seen any of Discovery but I am confident those are the best quotes from it
Thus is our treaty written; thus is our agreement made. Thought it the arrow of time; memory never fades. What was asked for was given; the price is paid

User Info: SaveEstelle

SaveEstelle
1 month ago#59
I roll my eyes at the “Rey is a Mary Sue” argument. She grew up as a junk scavenger, of course she knows about electronics and engines. She defeated Kylo Ren after he was already wounded. I’m sure she learned more about sword fighting between movies. She does learn to wield the Force faster than Luke, but so what? When people say that Rey is a Mary Sue, I really don’t care at all.

<333
Hi! I'm Quinton.
Did you know that Emilia Clarke will be my wife in 2023?

User Info: scarletspeed7

scarletspeed7
1 month ago#60
#58 - Ash Tyler

Dissecting the problems with Discovery Season One led me to one utterly immutable conclusion - Michael Burnham is a character only as good as the characters that surround her. Ash Tyler existed only to ask the question of "Why is Michael Burnham so great?" and as such, he proved to be the single worst character in the first season. His appearances were nails on the chalkboard consistently. The revelations of his background only further infuriated me in the way that Discovery Season One had such a difficult time understanding what made Star Trek wonderful. Sappy romance plagues a show about the unbridled optimism of utopian futures and exploration of the unknown.

The solution to Tyler was to give him an entirely unconnected plotline in season two; this proved even more poisonous in terms of my opinion of the character. Now, a character that only existed to tell me how great Burnham was ended up separated from her, floating pointlessly in the overplayed Klingon plotline that I had desperately hoped was stamped out at the end of the first season. With no real motivation or even reason for being on my screen, someone I hated now did me the disservice of not getting to a freaking point, lingering like a bad taste in my mouth.

Very, very rarely do I just want someone to die on screen. Just never show up again. Tyler is that character for me. More than anyone else in the Star Trek legacy, I just want him to kill himself and rid me of his vapid story arcs and pointless, drawn-out, badly written dialogues.
"It is too easy being monsters. Let us try to be human." ~Victor Frankenstein, Penny Dreadful
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