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User Info: Tom Bombadil

Tom Bombadil
3 weeks ago#11
turbopuns3 posted...
I love deck builders. For me the main thing is minimize randomness in availability of options.

Dominion does it right, imo. All options are equally available to all players. Compared to like Ascension where you can make completely optimal decisions and employ perfect strategy and lose because the card that turned up after you bought yours was the exact card your opponent needed. That sucks all the rewarding parts of deck building out of it.


I agree with this. I love the idea of a rotating supply (like Ascension) on paper, but I have yet to see it ever pulled off as well as Dominion's stable supply.

turbopuns3 posted...
Because I've yet to encounter a deck builder with [trashing] where abusing it wasn't optimal.


There are times in Dominion where the trashing strategy is beatable, but usually it's because the trashing card is weak or slow somehow. I'd miss trashing if it wasn't a mechanic but yeah it's easy to break

Asymmetric starting decks is fun, but a good bit of work on the design end to balance. I did that in another game I made by making like 40 crappy starting cards that were all crappy but could maybe nudge you into an overall plan for your deck.

I think I saw @trdl23 post recently
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User Info: cyko

cyko
3 weeks ago#12
My Favorite Deck Builders in no particular order -

Dominion
Trains
Clank in Space
Legendary
Quest For El Dorado
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User Info: banananor

banananor
3 weeks ago#13
I've played dominion and splendor

They both can feel pretty punishing if you play casually for one or more early turns. So if there's no way to come back, at least make the game short so players can get back in the next game

Randomness can help with that, but some other players hate all randomness

Splendor has some good randomness in that it can be played around somewhat

If both people need a blue gem but there are none on board, you can find this funny stalemate situation where no one takes anything and just keeps optimizing their chip counts

One thing to decide is how much players can gang up on each other. There's probably somewhere happy in the middle. I don't like it when games come down completely to king making, and also don't like it when I can't do anything to screw over the lucky or early first place person

I recognize that might mean I just don't like anything, but hey
You did indeed stab me in the back. However, you are only level one, whilst I am level 50. That means I should remain uninjured.

User Info: Tom Bombadil

Tom Bombadil
3 weeks ago#14
banananor posted...
One thing to decide is how much players can gang up on each other.


player interactivity is overrated imo imo imo

Personally I don't mind being hopelessly behind if there's still stuff I can do- if I can still work towards doing some sorta cool engine I don't mind being in a position where it won't come together in time. That's a cool thing about deckbuilders I think- you're rarely in a position where you can't even pretend to be accomplishing anything- compare something like Monopoly or Catan where if you fall far enough behind all you really do is go through the motions until you're done.
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User Info: trdl23

trdl23
3 weeks ago#15
I haven’t played any other deckbuilders in a while, but if we consider Splendor a deckbuilder, then that takes the crown from Ascension for me.

I do like having an element of randomness even though it makes the game not as skill-intensive because otherwise, it becomes insufferably dull. I won’t even play Dominion anymore because it feels like every game goes exactly the same; certain cards are just infinitely better than the rest, and instead of being a slave to the center row you’re a complete slave to your draws. If you fall behind you usually can’t catch up because the person who’s ahead is just going to storm combo out of control. At least in the randomized games you aren’t guaranteed to hit all the combo pieces that exist on the board.

I do like a modicum of player interaction, but Cryptizoic games go a bit too far for me. The goal should be to disrupt the engines other people have, not to potentially neuter their strategy outright.
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User Info: IfGodCouldDie

IfGodCouldDie
3 weeks ago#16
Is your game playable online?
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User Info: Johnbobb

Johnbobb
3 weeks ago#17
so I haven't played many deck-building games that weren't actually made by Cryptozoic? What distinguishes others from the Cerberus engine?

Played Legendary a while back and don't remember it well and haven't played Dominion

Tom Bombadil posted...
also this reminded me to stop pbworks from deactivating the mercs deckbuilder I got to a somewhat playable state
http://mercsdb.pbworks.com/w/page/112055431/Rules


I'd definitely be down for this being a thingturbopuns3 posted...
I love deck builders. For me the main thing is minimize randomness in availability of options.

I'm not really against randomness to an extent. I should mention, the game I'm looking to make (and the one I made) are pretty simplistic. More strategy than a straight party game, but also something that's very easy to pick up and play. Games of nature are the ones my friends have come back to more often than not

turbopuns3 posted...
I feel like another big decision is whether or not to have trashing cards from your deck be a thing. A.k.a. deck thinning.

I haven't really had much of an issue with this when I played. The game I made and the games it was based on all feature deck-thinning in a limited amount (certain cards do it but not a ton of them) and I've only had one time where getting a couple deck-thinning cards early on led to a big early lead

I like the idea of deckthinning as an option, because after a while still having the starting cards can get to be a drag and if I can employ it in such a way that it keeps up the pace without wrecking the balance, I'd want to

turbopuns3 posted...
In fact I think it would be cool if players didn't have to start with the same base deck as each other. Let them draft or somehow decide for themselves their starting deck.

I like this idea, but I also wonder how easy that would be to balance
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User Info: Johnbobb

Johnbobb
3 weeks ago#18
IfGodCouldDie posted...
Is your game playable online?

no unfortunately, I'm not sure of any way to do that, otherwise I would.

I also ran into the issue with the first game of not really playtesting before I played. I've tried using Vassal but can't get it to work and didn't feel like making flash cards of the ~200 cards I'd need to playtest. That led to some balance issues as well as small mistakes (writing "discard" instead of "destroy," etc.) that I've had to just write down as edits to note. Fortunately the group of people I play this with is pretty small, so they all remember the issue cards pretty easy, but it would make putting it online tougher
Khal Kirby, warlord of the Super Star Khalasar
PSN/Steam: CheddarBBQ https://goo.gl/Diw2hs

User Info: Colegreen_c12

Colegreen_c12
3 weeks ago#19
all of this trashing talk gave me a cool idea.

What if instead of a small 10 card deck you started with a 25 card deck, but every purchase replaced a card in your hand when you bought it (ie basically buy=trash), also make it easy to buy multiple cards per turn.

So then you have to determine whether you want to rotate your cards faster for less powerful cards (ie trash-heavy) or keep the weak cards around for longer but only get high quality cards.
DPOblivion beat us all.

User Info: OracleGunner

OracleGunner
3 weeks ago#20
I played the RE one, Ascension as IIRC.
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