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User Info: handsomeboy2012

handsomeboy2012
4 weeks ago#291
Lots to unpack this episode. Something I would like to address first is how much of this is real and how much are total bollocks. There are things that are probably be beyond Beatrice’s control and she had to improvise along the way. And as they say, the best lies always have some truth in them.

What I think is all an act:
-The fight between Beatrice and Virgilia. Done to put Virgilia on Battler’s side.
-The bunny girls helping Evatrice. They are in fact working for Beatrice. I don’t think Beatrice actually got sewed or tortured, she would not be willing to take so much pain just to trick Battler.
-The Golden Land being a happy place.
-Beatrice losing power and transferring it to Evatrice and becoming weak.
-Beatrice denying witches. She is actually doing some magic to destroy Evatrice, so she told Battler to cover his ears so he can't hear what she is saying.

What I think is true:
-The existence of Evatrice. Eva's reactions, survival and passing the name to Ange suggests that Evatrice did happen at some point. Maybe she can do Endless Magic on her own. Maybe she can't do s*** and it is actually Beatrice reading her mind and making her think she knows magic. Either, she's a pawn and can be removed easily.
-The first twilight up to Kumasawa. There was nothing suspicious in how Beatrice acted.
-Beatrice's past, like learning from Virgilia and being trapped by Kinzo.
-Beatrice taking a liking to Maria.

User Info: handsomeboy2012

handsomeboy2012
4 weeks ago#292
Episode 3 is a lot meatier than the last one. I spent much more time here, though I don't know if it is really longer or I took too long pausing and posting. Either way, it's a lot more eventful, with highlights like Beatrice 'vs' Virgilia, Evatrice's succession, Rudolf and Kyrie fighting (my absolute favourite), etc. Quite a roller coaster as they keep shaking things up in unexpected ways. Lots of new characters too.

Mystery solving is better, it's not all similar murders with locked rooms and keys this time. The one on why Kyrie went to the mansion has real logic and using evidence brings me back to the usual murder mysteries and is nice to have once in a while. Not that I hate the bulls***ting and action scenes, I've already fully accepted they are part of Umineko.

As for the reveal that it is all an act... might as well describe my thoughts during the playthrough. Beatrice getting development is something I thought would occur soon and was glad to see it, setting up Evatrice as the main villain some time in the future. As it goes on I started to feel it's way to quick - a cruel witch who lived 1000 years is doing a complete 180 because, um, Battler got mad at her? Shoving a complete face turn into a single episode? I was thinking about complaining during character rankings.

Instead he plot went the opposite direction at the last moment. Needless to say, I got bamboozled.
A lot of it became non-events in an instant and I left rather unsatisfied. Now I still would have issues if Beatrice became a good guy here, so my preferred situation would be somewhere in the middle, like Beatrice is still your enemy but has changed a bit. Maybe it could still happen, idk really.

Episode rankings
1. Episode 3
2. Episode 1
3. Episode 2

Even with this problem I still put ep3 at the top because almost everything else is great, but it's not above second place by much.

In the end the most substantial developments are some history on Beatrice, and Ange getting dropped into the game. Hopefully it would lead to something bigger.
(edited 4 weeks ago)

User Info: handsomeboy2012

handsomeboy2012
4 weeks ago#293
Btw I'm interested in knowing what you guys think about 'It's all a lie', or whatever it is called around here

User Info: Dels

Dels
4 weeks ago#294
I like the idea of it but I was a bit confused because I could swear there were scenes between Beatrice+Virgilia where they were alone but still acting fake-nice? Even though Battler wasn't watching? I'm not certain of it though. But if there were scenes written only to trick that viewer that have no in-universe explanation that would be sort of cheap, in my opinion. Still generally a well-executed twist.

Like I said, I was a bit surprised because I was expecting the game to develop Beatrice and her relationship with Battler and so it made a lot of sense that it was starting to happen (we couldn't spend 8 chapters of just WITCHES ALL BAD, DENY WITCHES, NO NUANCE, could we?) and then apparently it wasn't.

User Info: Sceptilesolar

Sceptilesolar
4 weeks ago#295
It's hard to discuss without some additional context coming next episode. I don't remember being too surprised by the twist; it was a bit too transparently by-the-book for Ryu07 to ever play it straight.
Just killing time until the world ends.

User Info: handsomeboy2012

handsomeboy2012
4 weeks ago#296
For the record I don't think it's some cheap twist, Beatrice's attitude was becoming less and less believable and it being fake probably makes more sense. It's just that a lot of content became kind of pointless and things seemed to go back to square one again (well maybe 'square two' because of Ange)
(edited 4 weeks ago)

User Info: Eerieka

Eerieka
4 weeks ago#297
Yeah, it's hard to talk about my ~true feelings~ because there's so much more to the story that hasn't been revealed yet. At the end of Ep 3 though, the 'lol we're still evil!' didn't surprise me because Beatrice and Virgilia had discussed the North Wind and Sun earlier, so I realized that was their strategy.
Account created-9/10/04. Just a normal GameFAQs user/leprechaun
Ramza: rofl. Rofel: You say my name? -Eise

User Info: Zyxyz0

Zyxyz0
4 weeks ago#298
re: ep 3 and the north wind/sun:
https://twitter.com/tortokhod/status/1123393786237915138
Archive of my and others' playthrough/ranking topics, fanfiction recs, etc:
http://zyxyzarchive.x10host.com/

User Info: handsomeboy2012

handsomeboy2012
3 weeks ago#299
Character rankings, a bit shorter. With so many new ones I got lazy.

24. Maria
The reason why she and her mother were killed. Was so smug about it too.

23. Kinzo
Managed to make me feel bad for Beatrice of all people as if my opinion isn’t low enough already. Congratulations.

22. Evatrice
Hate her guts. I get that she is a representation of Eva’s worst traits, and I am supposed to hate her, but there’s nothing remotely interesting about her except being comically evil. Her laugh is like someone with lung disease and is even worse than Maria’s. Then she got destroyed by Beatrice and probably won’t ever appear again, so her character is pretty disposable. At least her theme song is good.

21. Lambdadelta
Another evil witch. Terrible name. Also a loli and yandere(?) which is not my preferred anime trope.

20. Krauss
Finally, does not die on the first twilight. He’s aware that he has been a jackass all along which is a bit better than before.

19. Nanjo
Zzzzzzzz

18. Kumasawa
How many lines of dialogue did she even get? Is she Virgilia, or was she killed beforehand so that Virgilia can disguise as her and trick Battler? Either way, she’s irrelevant. Should go back to a normal human in later episodes.

17. Kanon
I called him a stubborn whiner last episode and not much has changed. He still has more bark than bite, easily falling for Beatrice’s goading and wordplay. It’s just so easy to manipulate him.

The rest will come later

User Info: handsomeboy2012

handsomeboy2012
3 weeks ago#300
16. Gohda
Can the poor man ever catch a break?

15. Jessica
Another big drop (she was 3rd in episode 1 and 7th in episode 2). When something happens, she abandons the cheery/headstrong personality that I like to turn into a crybaby. She keeps losing her temper, accuses others for no reason, and pathetically calls for Kanon’s help. I understand this is normal for a teenage girl, but I am getting tired of her being such a burden.

14. Genji
Mercy killed Shannon and Kanon, showing that he does have some emotion and is not a robot. Otherwise, completely forgettable.

13. George
Um, he works hard, and tries way too hard to look mature. Don’t have much to say about him.

12. Vrigilia
She was a nice, harmless and helpful ally and nothing much suggests otherwise until that very moment. When I said I caught off guard, it was more on her than Beatrice (which wouldn’t be out of character). I’m conflicted about this because while this made her less bland it nullified a potentially interesting student-teacher relationship where on different sides, and turned her into another one of those ‘hahaha I’m so evil’ witch. Oh, and she’s probably the reason why Beatrice was bad.

11. Bernkatsel
Finally decided to do something after sitting on her ass for so long. The only witch who’s really on your side (inb4 she becomes evil too) which automatically makes her somewhat unique. I also like the mysterious aura that she gives out. That tail though, just… why.

10. Hideyoshi
I can’t think of a single negative personality trait on him. Without her husband Eva would have instantly gone off the rocker, as evidenced by Evatrice and 1998 Eva. He’s almost too perfect, but lacks the presence to get a higher rank.

9. Shannon
She as good as last episode. Too bad as a bunch of other characters blow past her.

Characters not going to be ranked this ep:
Ange (too soon), Stake sisters (forgot about them) and Bunny girls (too soon)
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