Thinking of making a BP battery team
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A red mage - possibly with examine for the boss battles
A valkyrie to use the BP to her advantage and get out quick crescent attacks and so on
A templar/white mage to use the 4BP limit and white magics as I remember reading Templar's mind is a B stat
I don't know for the last slot - possibly something like a ninja, but the counter ninja build rather than the 32 attack 9999 crit one.
Do to this, I want to make all of them red mages when I unlock it and get them all to equip the support ability of getting BP when attacked. Then split off into their roles, all geared towards using clutch BP to my advantage. I'm envisioning something like all defaulting, then ninja counters and gains a BP, my templar gets an extra BP quicker and can use 2x cura, my red mage bumps a BP and sends out a Thundaga etc.
My question is, is this viable? I want to do my first hard playthrough as I mentioned, and I'm bored of using OP classes. Spiritualist is a no-no, but I'm open to using cool secondary classes, like a red mage/salve maker for the 3k wide party poison etc. I don't want any aforementioned OP combos. No mimic, no leverage, nothing. Just a fun party, built around BP gain, utilising a tank because I'll be on hard, but open to use another tank too like swordmaster - actually, the counter and protect abilities work really well with random JP. Singer/dancer (whatever the class is) is cool too for giving people JP, also maybe the basic Knight class too for clutch protects and defends/counters.
So, what do you guys think? BP team viable? let me know - I wanna get back to playing it but if i make one more shippiguri ninja I'll kill myself.
I think it should at least be viable up until the Chapter 8 fights/boss gauntlet. Can't speak for its consistency, though. Some fights may take a few tries.
If you're going to be using Revenge, you could try running that Swordmaster you mentioned with Damage Dispersion as a support ability. Use your Ninja's Kairai to direct attacks to it, triggering Nothing Ventured/Before Swine and ensuring that Damage Dispersion will proc (while stacking damage reduction). Damage Dispersion's effect can proc Revenge, so you'll maximize your BP gain from each enemy attack.
Vampire will also probably be a better choice than Valkyrie overall. Energy Burst is the same thing as Crescent Moon but 50% stronger, and you can spam its elemental AoE even more easily. You also get debuffs and party healing built in.
So, you reckon using damage dispersion can trigger revenge for all of my team at the cost of a little bit of damage? I just really want a fun comp rather than the same old boring stuff. Vampire would be cool but that's end game obviously as I need to find teh dragons :P What do you think the team could be?
Red mage w/salvemaker, revenge ability + all party healing (the one that lets you all cast things for max healing - 3k party wide xpotions. Although with loads of BP and healing I might not need salvemaker. Possibly something like time mage to spread some buffs/debuffs around, too. (edit: TM seems cool here, and I never got to use them before, never bothered with them).
Valkyrie (until I get vampire) plus possibly monk/pirate/swordmaster for the big single target damage/tanking. Jump is cool but I won't use that if I need BP - will only use it on single target enemies/bosses to overpower.
Templar (when I get it)/WHM. This should be a really nice combo, using the templar's 4 brave limit to my advantage with some good white magics, decent attack and access to holy spells and iirc he gets a defence boost move too - stalwart or something?
Last class - idk. I have here two tanks and two healers (three if you count vamp when I get it), black magics, decent attackers in Valkyrie and RM but nothing limit breaking - could I run the damage class here? the evade/counter ninja is cool but he won't benefit from BP gains when he evades everything so he'll be left behind. I could use the swordmaster here, but that's three tanks then (unless Vampire isn't tanky) and no massive damage. Although, I won't need HUGE damage as I'll be running useful tanks (tanks seemed not so useful on normal difficulty) and I get random chances to attack where I shouldn't.
On a side note, can I re-default after using the revenge ability to attack? Also, what are the gauntlet battles? I've finished the game before but never heard of the gauntlet battles.
I'll start my new game now - I've got a lot of grinding to do to get to RM and especially on hard difficulty - my first one! (I tried it hard before but found the random battles in the first keep with Ominas really hard - those ogre things really hurt). If you could post 4 character ideas like I have above that would be awesome. I like my idea of RM/TM and the Templar/WHM but apart from that I'm easy :)
Thanks man, you know your s***! Also wish me luck - hard here I come!
Ah, since you were talking about using Red Mage as the basis for your team, I thought you were going to be doing a NG+ with all jobs unlocked immediately. Then yeah, Vampire can come later.
Damage Dispersion does indeed trigger Revenge, and honestly, you won't get great mileage out of Templar without it. The Templar's only genuinely good skill is Rampart, which blocks one physical attack for each party member after being cast (can't stack with itself). Revenge requires you to take damage, though, meaning that each time you use Rampart, you're depriving your characters chances to gain BP. Rampart doesn't block damage from Damage Dispersion, however, so you can use Kairai on your DD character to ensure that their shield fades quickly and you can resume BP generation. It's not perfect, but if you're set on Revenge and Templar, it's probably the best way to go. The Templar's offensive skills are just outclassed by the time you unlock it, so plan to use it mostly for healing and support. Pairing it with a Vampire or Salve-Maker is likely the only way you'll get competitive endgame offense out of the build given your restrictions.
Red Mage/Time Mage is fine, though its offense will fall off hard around Chapter 4, with Meteor being the only competitive damage option later (which will burn your MP quickly). Like the Templar, it's likely to become a dedicated support build. A Salve-Maker is still a good idea, though in a number of ways, it's even more broken than Spiritmaster. Since I'm assuming you don't want to abuse Rejuvenation, though, Salve-Maker will be the best way to manage your team's MP.
You need to fit some strong damage dealers into your remaining slots, too. Fortunately, Salve-Maker can be paired effectively with a number of offensive jobs. I would recommend Dark Knight here, since you're only going to have your Vampire for AoE damage otherwise. If you give your DK the BP Recovery ability, it can use Compounding to inflict elemental weaknesses on itself and generate BP, so you can pick between that and Revenge.
For the Vampire, I'd try pairing it with Ninja. I usually run Ninja as the main job in this pairing due to its speed and inherent Dual Wield, though you could use Vampire as the main job with Two-Handed and have higher HP. Utsusemi keeps your HP high for White Wind, and high speed works well with the Vampire's debuffs. You could opt to give this build Turn Tables instead of Revenge to capitalize on Utsusemi, but that's up to you.
So I guess the final party would look something like:
Red Mage/Time Mage
Again, can't speak for how this will perform in the boss gauntlet. To answer your question, the gauntlet is in the Eternian Central Command during Chapter 8. You fight all of the asterisk bearers in groups of 3-4, but instead of being grouped by region like they are in the Chapter 8 sub quests, they're arranged to have some sort of team strategy (status ailment abuse, obscene magic damage, etc.). The first time you go through it, I believe you get a chance to rest between fights, but on subsequent attempts, you keep going until you win or are defeated.
Don't really understand your question about "re-defaulting" and "using Revenge to attack." I'm not sure if you're just confused about the mechanics, but that description doesn't seem applicable to anything in the game.
Thanks for all your help and input - it's been really helpful!
I like the idea for the team - but what restrictions have I put on the team? In the sense I won't be using op strats? Honestly, I wanted to run tanks as I thought hard would be harder than it is - i'm in Ancheim and breezed through the boss battles, so the templar/WHM came from my belief the game would be harder. Obviously, it's going to get harder as the game goes on but I anticipated it to be harder from the get go. So, I'm open to basically making a team that will work - I don't need the ones I've posted above. What would you recommend outside what I've thought of? I may use a redmage anyway for the clutch heals I can get out, but apart from that I'm easy. I like the vampire idea, I've never actually got vampire as the dragons pissed me off too much x)
So, what would a stronger team be? The templar might not be the best shout if I don't need tanks, for example.
Finally, about the revenge brave - As I've never used RM, i'm not sure how it works - does it just add BP to your next turn, or do you get to interrupt enemies attacks to then use it? I thought you can interrupt enemies attacks with the revenge BP, but if you can't then I can see how revenge can add limitations. I want to use the strat quite badly as it still seems fun! Thanks for all your help so far man :)
Revenge's mechanics are fairly straightforward - every time your character takes damage from an enemy or ally's attack, that character's BP has a 25% chance to increase by 1. The enemy's turn doesn't stop or anything, so you're not going to be able to pull off "clutch heals" in the way you're thinking.
As for making a stronger team, there are a lot of different ways you could go about it. I think that you're going to find Cura heals from a Red Mage underwhelming as you get further in the game, though. You'd need abilities like Healing Lore and Holy One to make them worthwhile, or else you'll probably end up leaning on your Vampire for White Wind heals more often than not.
If you want a more potent healer, Salve-Maker/White Mage or White Mage/Time Mage are options. Red Mage does have inherent Revenge, but you lose the advantage this gives if it's spending most of its time healing, since as mentioned above, you're going to have to fill its support slots up anyways to make it effective. Typically Time Mage and Red Mage are paired to make a BP Recovery battery with Group-Cast Poison and assorted utility, but since that's not what you want, I'm not sure the build will have enough to do each round to pull its weight.
A tank also isn't necessarily a bad idea, but I would concentrate more on the idea of mitigating damage for your team when selecting the last couple jobs. Support and defense are the heart of consistent teams in BD. Rampart is still a valid approach, despite the Templar's limitations, or you could go with the Swordmaster for tanking and countering in combination with your Ninja. You could run a Performer for more buffs and BP, too.
I'm going to hold off on recommending more builds for now, because we're at a very open-ended stage of team building, and I'd prefer to see what you're leaning toward before I offer more suggestions. Once you come back with something you think you'll like, I'll offer more constructive criticism and recommendations for improvement.
I totally agree with you in that I need to come up with some ideas that you can tweak rather than build it for me. I've been out of the bravely game for a little while and since I've always played normal I'm new to actually planning a team. I've done a little research and got my head back round the classes, and I think I've got a team idea that should be pretty cool to use. Even with the revenge giving you BP on your next turn rather than an interrupt, it'll still be interesting in that it's not a case of defaulting to 3 and then braving for 4, and any boss battle that leaves them on negative bp after a round will benefit me in that I can use the bp generated that round to heal and buff in between attacks - it should still make for an interesting game play! Anyway, the team. I read your comment about support and defence being essential for a consistent team, and thought of the 4 roles i need. I came up with : Support role/back up healer, primary healer, tank and a fast physical attacker. So, here's my thoughts:
Support: Red Mage/time Mage (with the possibility of subbing vampire for RM when I get it.) when I don't have healing to do, I can buff/debuff or throw elemental damage Around seeing as I don't have another form of elemental damage - not running spell fencer this time around. Basically just keeping the team ticking.
Primary healer: white mage (but I do really like salve maker, too). I might look into spirit master, just won't use stillness and I'll just use the non cheese abilities.
Tank: sword master/ninja. Taking inspiration from your post, a sword master with damage dispersion sounds awesome. I've subbed ninja on so I can aggro myself and I can use Shippiguri to overcome the sword masters abysmal speed in a pinch. I'll also put the knights protect ally support slot on here, so that I can really soak for the team. Counters and aggro will go a long way to keeping my team nice and healthy.
Damage: dark knight. Just one of my favourite classes of the series, I can both deal damage and tank a fair bit with its affinity for armour. Considering a salvemaker sub here, as I can use rage and go to 1hp and then use a cross party x potion for 3k or whatever (I haven't used salvemaker properly before).
Possible changes: make the final slot a ninja and use turn tables and an evade build to guarantee some BP, and whatever else I get from random revenge gains. Possibly sub thief on to get Godspeed strike up with a haste and steal some items for the salve maker. Then, possibly sub salvemaker onto the sword master, since healing isn't affected my mind stat on salvemaker, I can counter, evade, block and heal my party.
My only issue here is aside from the red mages limited damage (and later, vampire) and the ninja or DK, I don't have a huge amount of damage available. I'm hoping to overcome this by attacking more often due to revenge gains than a normal team and using supportclasses to boost my evasion rate, having a really strong defensive backbone build and being able to use offensive items with salvemaker too!
I haven't used time mate or salvemaker properly before, so it would be interesting to use and build these.
Sent this from my phone, apologies for poor formatting or if I've not explained anything too well. Again, thanks for your help and apologies for essentially asking you to build a team for me without proper research! Just about to head to Florem, so I've nearly got my red mates! Then only grind to level 9 and I've got it!
I haven't included support abilities purely because I've forgotten most of them. However, using revenge takes 2/5/ slots on my characters, which is annoying. Hopefully I can make some cool classes though :)
After a little more research, I've slightly tweaked the team.
Support - still RM/TM. (changed to vampire/TM probably when and if i unlock it). As I have revenge as standard on RM, I can sub on holy one to really power some curas up, and I'll use the spiritmaster to buff the RM's elemental damage when I can. I also remember the lv14 spell-fencer ability adds physical damage to magic attacks? So with a decent sword (or maybe an axe) I have a decent hitter, a good elemental mage, a very good healer (2.5x cura should be decent) and a support role (the haste actually saved me on the land turtle in Mt. Fragmentum as I got to use blizzara before it used reflect - on normal this didn't bother me, but on hard it was painful).
Tank - Still swordmaster/ninja
Primary healer - salvemaker/spiritmaster Cost aside (i can just farm for this) this should be a very good class - salvemaker for huge giant's draft healing, and the spiritmaster abilities look very useful (aggroing my counter tank and giving him magic absorption is pretty sick). I also need a way to manage my team's mana, so I need a good way of crafting elixirs to use. Isn't there a support ability from freelancer that gives me party wide items for 1 extra BP (I seem to recall seeing this).
Damage source - DK/freelancer (until i decide what to add here).
Above, I have two tanks, two healers, an aggro machine, a support role, an elemental damage role and a huge physical attacker.
Thoughts? Just need to look through all the support abilities now and craft some sick characters! I remember Ch.3 outside Hartschild being good for farming until I get to Ch.5 florem
Hey, sorry for the extended delay on my response - I had a busy week and couldn't sit down to really think about your updates. Apologies if you've already moved past the point where this discussion is relevant.
That said, I think you're on the right track. You should definitely switch RM/TM to Vampire/TM ASAP with the new setup, which will let you drop the healing support abilities and up your damage output significantly. Besides Revenge, I'd give the Vampire Two-Handed, Drain Attack Up, and your choice of Monster Ability Up or Angelic Ward/Absorb P. Damage (buffing with Drain from the Blood Blade and P. Attack +50%). If you have a way to buff crit chance, you could also run Katana Lore with Ama-no-Murakumo. Fox Tail with or without Axe Lore is also an option, since the Vampire's debuffs go great with fast builds.
Also, Salve-Maker/Spiritmaster will probably work, but since you don't have anything in particular planned for your DK's subjob, I would split this combination and pair one job with the DK instead. The reason is that Salve-Maker and Spiritmaster have a lot of overlapping support skills, and many of these skills are very important. If you put these jobs together, you're going to have to make choices like whether you'd prefer to set up Giant's Drafts or Fairy Ward, and without a consistent BP battery, sometimes you might not have a winning option. Also, if the build is KO'd or otherwise disabled, you're going to have a rough time recovering. Keeping these jobs separate lets them support each other and helps ensure your team always has a second line of defense when things start to go wrong. Their overlap switches from being a negative trait to a positive one.
Both Salve-Maker and Spiritmaster work well as a DK's subjob, and you'll have a lot of freedom to make effective pairings with whichever job you don't pair with the DK, too. How you proceed is up to you. You can use the unpaired Spiritmaster or Salve-Maker as the main job for a different dedicated healer, or you could rely on your Vampire for White Wind healing and back them up with an Adaptation/Dark Nebula combo (though the latter may be less consistent without a steady source of BP). You could incorporate crit buffs and run the Salve-Maker as an Item Critical build for strong hybrid damage and healing. You could run another hybrid damage dealer using the Spiritmaster or Salve-Maker as a subjob. Or go Salve-Maker/Freelancer for Examine and Mimic, allowing you to cut down the amount of items you spend each battle. The choice is yours.
No problem at all - I've been on vacation myself so no worries. I've played a little bit, and since ditched the revenge play style as I got to chapter 5 and saw the damage the bosses dealt. It did serve me well up to chapter 5, though. So maybe you could give me pointers on the team I'm running now? :) I'm currently dragon hunting - 3 down! On my mobile, so it'll be quite short.
Tiz, level 72 RM/TM. Not much to say here, currently slaying dragons for the vampire build. I have two big damage dealers on the team so I'll be using him as a support healing role.
Agnes, level 72 - Templar/salvemaker. I decided to combine a tank and healer as I didn't know what support abilities to run for sale maker and I need someone who can survive the dragon breath attacks! Running P Def 20% and healing lore. I really don't think I'm using salvemaker effectively - I only have chance to use party wide x potions and that's it. Although, up to now I've been using the RM as a damage source rather than healing. Now I have two big damage classes, I straight use him for healing and debuffing, so maybe I can use some more combos (what are good combos? :D)
Ringabel, level 72 - DK/Freelancer. Big damage source, running gloom, PATK 20% and two handed. Running freelancer for miscellany, as I didn't have another class to tag it to and DK is self sustainable.
Edea, level 72 - classic ninja/spell fencer. Since I'm dropping RM soon, I need some elemental damage and this fits the bill. I'm going to set it up with the hawk eye/frenetic fighting once I've grinded ranger enough. It's the only "cheese" one I'm doing.
So that's the team. I found I need a tank as I'm not experience enough with this game on hard to survive without one, but without the aggro I have no way of directing hits around. The freelancer / sale maker build you posted earlier sounds awesome, but that deletes my only tank. So I'm not sure I can run it.
TL,DR. I'm a scrub and need a tank, and without one my characters get really peeled off. Enjoying the challenge though! Also need some recipes for Salvemaker!
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