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  3. Since KH Dark Road is coming I decided to finally finish a little project

User Info: Hirokey123

Hirokey123
4 days ago#1
For a long time I wanted to see somewhere a sort of chronological showing of Xehanort's character from YX to Present Day MX using the dialogue/writing from the game. I've been working on it off and on for a long time because it was pretty daunting collecting all the relevant dialogue across the cutscenes and reports, sorting it down to the parts I needed, and streamlining it from there. It also was a bit challenging because time travel makes it kind of annoying to put things into a chronological order when you have stuff like Xehanort's very first adventure actually happening in DDD, so I played around a fair bit with the order. I also had to include a few non-Xehanort bits to make the dialogue collection and mix and match a few scenes/lines to make it flow better since it is just a dialogue collection not like an analysis, essay, or script. I got burned out by it by with the announcement of Dark Road it revitalized my desire to finish it.

So here it is, Xehanort's character seen more or less chronologically. It's a google doc because this would never fit in a topic like ever...

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eikNFnubjI0f0Qj11amk7TJQZQ2GnmF0asBakTA3Fq0/edit?usp=sharing
I've got a quote that embodies you perfectly, but it's seventy-three posts long, has a few massive flowcharts, and lots of Xion-KMA to Me
(edited 4 days ago)

User Info: NorthernDruid

NorthernDruid
4 days ago#2
A very interesting read. Going through that all at once makes the ending and Apprentice Xehanort's entire plotline quite a bit more compelling.

I hope Dark Road goes into the amnesia deal more.
Open world is the worst trend and needs to go away before it kills even more great series.

User Info: Hirokey123

Hirokey123
3 days ago#3
NorthernDruid posted...
A very interesting read. Going through that all at once makes the ending and Apprentice Xehanort's entire plotline quite a bit more compelling.

I hope Dark Road goes into the amnesia deal more.
I think so to, he has a fairly consistent character between YX > MX> AX > MX but you can see where the split into Ansem and Xemnas altered him slightly because of his experiences.

YX/MX's character can still be seen in them but certain parts of their personality gave way to issues. YX/MX's pessimistic view of people's hearts, of the heart's nature was accented when he became AnsemSoD after the heartless experiments and then he further changed from his interaction with Riku and Sora. He kept trying to soldier on with his idea he gained when he was young from his travels that darkness is the heart's true nature, even when Riku's heart showed him a strength greater than darkness and Sora showed him a person who kept bringing up contradictions in his belief in people. He gets angry and annoyed at Sora, even a little exasperated you could say, because Sora went on a tour of the worlds like Xehanort did when he was young but instead came out believing the opposite of him. Eventually he gets emotionally burned out and admits part of him doesn't want this, but he can't really care at this point and so with his last moments he let's his "best friend" have the satisfaction of knowing that Ansem never stood a chance against Riku despite all his darkness flaunting and while his time is done he urges Sora and Riku to continue seeking. While he goes back to live out his time loop with Riku that ends with him being made to accept his place as part of Riku's heart.

While you can see that for Xemnas YX/MX's desire for power came out greater and the loss of the ability to feel emotion greatly worsened YM/MX's poor ability to understand the heart and emotions to a much more extreme degree, making him completely cruel and without any shred of empathy. Everything became so rigidly logical, theoretical, and scientifical he was practically a robot who constantly spoke of things he didn't properly understand at all while assume he knew it all. Even when all his creations kept turning against him, all his plans kept unexpectedly failing, his companions turning against, he just kept trying to march on never properly considering any of it because he was just so certain that he understood the heart. Interaction with the heroes and achieving the goal he worked his whole life for eventually was enough to jog a single emotion out of him, which at first enforced his misguided idea on what a heart is but it also let him feel for a moment the true strength of the heart and he finally took a step towards understanding people. And then this from his perspective wraps back around chronological to him forgetting this, going the way of his master by obsessively chasing after what his heart already knows, and dying because unfortunately he can't remember the heart's true strength and nature.

Both of them continue to highlight MX's core issue that he refuses to accept he lost, he keeps pushing on as if he won, but these two finally found peace when they accepted that loss while YX who is still very immature refuses to acknowledge his loss at all and goes out basically cackling. Which is in turn what happens with MX he fights Sora, after all he put him through, and Sora's heart is unwavering. Sora challenges everything he knows about the heart, he always has, a boy he views as dull and ordinary to the point of being beneath him. Sora is a living contradiction to his pessimistic view on the nature of people, his light is true and he shows that true light in people's hearts that Xehanort constantly overlooked because whatever he saw as a kid convinced him the light of people in this world is a falsity.

He then gets told first hand the truth he's always known since he was a boy, that he isn't what the world needs despite what the MoM put into his head. But because the MoM put the idea that because he had the power to shape the world he should try, he did and when Eraqus appears you can hear his desperation at trying to deny this. It's too late for him but he can't accept that, until Eraqus says checkmate and that is the key. It brings back his memory of a simpler time before all this, back when he was able to accept loss and that in his heart he was meant to support, and while Eraqus and him failed at supporting one another they could at least support the new generation. Turning over the X-blade to Sora he accepts his loss and then Eraqus and Xehanort's final action is to give one another the support they failed to in the pass allowing them to both pass on peacefully.

I am very curious though what Dark Road will add, what terrible things Xehanort saw on his journey that convinced so thoroughly that people are false, the world is doomed for chaos, and basically made him looks all hope in the world and see only the worst in everyone. His struggles to understand a person's heart almost certainly played in but I strongly suspect still that he must have been betrayed, it would take a real personal wounding of the heart tied to the nature of people to make someone's hope for the future and in people die so completely.
I've got a quote that embodies you perfectly, but it's seventy-three posts long, has a few massive flowcharts, and lots of Xion-KMA to Me

User Info: SealBlade

SealBlade
3 days ago#4
Hirokey123 posted...
I think so to, he has a fairly consistent character between YX > MX> AX > MX but you can see where the split into Ansem and Xemnas altered him slightly because of his experiences.

YX/MX's character can still be seen in them but certain parts of their personality gave way to issues. YX/MX's pessimistic view of people's hearts, of the heart's nature was accented when he became AnsemSoD after the heartless experiments and then he further changed from his interaction with Riku and Sora. He kept trying to soldier on with his idea he gained when he was young from his travels that darkness is the heart's true nature, even when Riku's heart showed him a strength greater than darkness and Sora showed him a person who kept bringing up contradictions in his belief in people. He gets angry and annoyed at Sora, even a little exasperated you could say, because Sora went on a tour of the worlds like Xehanort did when he was young but instead came out believing the opposite of him. Eventually he gets emotionally burned out and admits part of him doesn't want this, but he can't really care at this point and so with his last moments he let's his "best friend" have the satisfaction of knowing that Ansem never stood a chance against Riku despite all his darkness flaunting and while his time is done he urges Sora and Riku to continue seeking. While he goes back to live out his time loop with Riku that ends with him being made to accept his place as part of Riku's heart.

While you can see that for Xemnas YX/MX's desire for power came out greater and the loss of the ability to feel emotion greatly worsened YM/MX's poor ability to understand the heart and emotions to a much more extreme degree, making him completely cruel and without any shred of empathy. Everything became so rigidly logical, theoretical, and scientifical he was practically a robot who constantly spoke of things he didn't properly understand at all while assume he knew it all. Even when all his creations kept turning against him, all his plans kept unexpectedly failing, his companions turning against, he just kept trying to march on never properly considering any of it because he was just so certain that he understood the heart. Interaction with the heroes and achieving the goal he worked his whole life for eventually was enough to jog a single emotion out of him, which at first enforced his misguided idea on what a heart is but it also let him feel for a moment the true strength of the heart and he finally took a step towards understanding people. And then this from his perspective wraps back around chronological to him forgetting this, going the way of his master by obsessively chasing after what his heart already knows, and dying because unfortunately he can't remember the heart's true strength and nature.

Both of them continue to highlight MX's core issue that he refuses to accept he lost, he keeps pushing on as if he won, but these two finally found peace when they accepted that loss while YX who is still very immature refuses to acknowledge his loss at all and goes out basically cackling. Which is in turn what happens with MX he fights Sora, after all he put him through, and Sora's heart is unwavering. Sora challenges everything he knows about the heart, he always has, a boy he views as dull and ordinary to the point of being beneath him. Sora is a living contradiction to his pessimistic view on the nature of people, his light is true and he shows that true light in people's hearts that Xehanort constantly overlooked because whatever he saw as a kid convinced him the light of people in this world is a falsity.

He then gets told first hand the truth he's always known since he was a boy, that he isn't what the world needs despite what the MoM put into his head. But because the MoM put the idea that because he had the power to shape the world he should try, he did and when Eraqus appears you can hear his desperation at trying to deny this. It's too late for him but he can't accept that, until Eraqus says checkmate and that is the key. It brings back his memory of a simpler time before all this, back when he was able to accept loss and that in his heart he was meant to support, and while Eraqus and him failed at supporting one another they could at least support the new generation. Turning over the X-blade to Sora he accepts his loss and then Eraqus and Xehanort's final action is to give one another the support they failed to in the pass allowing them to both pass on peacefully.

I am very curious though what Dark Road will add, what terrible things Xehanort saw on his journey that convinced so thoroughly that people are false, the world is doomed for chaos, and basically made him looks all hope in the world and see only the worst in everyone. His struggles to understand a person's heart almost certainly played in but I strongly suspect still that he must have been betrayed, it would take a real personal wounding of the heart tied to the nature of people to make someone's hope for the future and in people die so completely.
My concern is that said theoretical justification would imo need to be ridiculously dark, and while KH doesn't shy away from such things on a lighter scale, I question how far they'd be able to push the envelope and not have Xehanort's future perspective come off as over/melodramatic or hackneyed.
Crusnik 02, Nanomachine activate...80% -Abel Nightroad
PS3 ID: CruxisNightroad WKC ID: Seraphim

User Info: Hirokey123

Hirokey123
3 days ago#5
I mean not ridiculously dark, just something like what Sora went through in KH1 where his two new close friends up and left him after his best friend stole everything from him. Sora was able to get over and understand that because he understands hearts and had someone there to pick him up, Xehanort doesn't understand hearts as well so he most likely would take that kind of thing in the worst way possible.
I've got a quote that embodies you perfectly, but it's seventy-three posts long, has a few massive flowcharts, and lots of Xion-KMA to Me

User Info: NorthernDruid

NorthernDruid
3 days ago#6
Just pulling from disney movies could easily make it dark enough. Character's like Clayton or Judge Frollo are plenty dark enough to make someone go "everyone is awful and there's no redeeming the world".

Anyways, more directly on topic: I've had a pet theory, or at least headcanon, that Ansem(Xehanort's Heartless) and Xemnas had their motives twisted by their nature as Heartless and Nobody.

Ansem, set to create a Kingdom Hearts of the darkness of the fallen world hearts, accomplishes this goal but at the same time yearns for that darkness beyond what the overall scheme is.

Similarily, Xemnas moans before he merges with his own KH about completeness and how he lacks it.

I believe their actions, at least when the heroes starts wrecking their plans, were influenced by their nature as incomplete, damaged beings.

Even if there's no explicit (or even implicit) evidence of such, I feel like it makes a certain thematic sense.

As for Xehanort as a character overall, one thing I like about the character that I hope Dark Road expands on, is his lack of understanding. He knows a lot sure, but he doesn't understand the true nature of things, even if he's convinced he's right about things such as the superiority of darkness or the true nature of the heart and what weakness or strength really is, he's often blindsided by not having considered the full picture or the deeper nature of things, being shocked and surprised when Terra's armour gets back up and defeats him or when his Kingdom Hearts made up of darkened world hearts still has light shining through the door to darkness.

Open world is the worst trend and needs to go away before it kills even more great series.
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