Post the most overrated card of the set. (a la Troggzor, Hunter Quest, Uther DK)

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  3. Post the most overrated card of the set. (a la Troggzor, Hunter Quest, Uther DK)

User Info: GujinKami

GujinKami
2 months ago#11
mada7 posted...
Aluneth has the problem of you never being able to keep up with that kind of card influx each turn

The kind of deck that runs Aluneth won't care about care value at that point. Once you drop Aluneth, your game plan shifts to "how many burn spells can I drag and drop at my opponent's face?"

How good a Burn Mage will be is up in question right now, but that's the kind of deck Aluneth will find a home in, not some theoretical Value Mage deck.
~Gujin
http://i.imgur.com/39lX5ve.jpg http://i.imgur.com/9S9glYE.png http://i.imgur.com/jchyRfp.jpg

User Info: Pijinz

Pijinz
2 months ago#12
What's the measure on how well these cards are rated? There's a topic on Hearthpwn where the poll results for each card have been amalgamated (still missing some of the latest cards):

http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/207066-top-best-current-revealed-cards-chart-hearthpwn

From that list, the one that stands out to me is Reckless Flurry at number 5. I don't think Warrior will see much play at all, and I don't think Reckless Flurry will necessarily be taken even in the few Warrior decks you run into. It'll see more play once Fishes rotates out in April.

But yeah, that's an unusual card to be rated so highly, and I haven't heard anybody individually singing its praises. The cards that I've heard praised yet been skeptical of, like Kathrena and Aluneth, are way down on the Hearthpwn list (47 and 48).

I think people have been pretty careful with their predictions, putting caveats on the meta etc. There's cards that're well hyped up but might not see play, e.g. Unstable Evolution or Val'anyr, but that's based more on the classes and archetypes as a whole rather than the strength of the card singularly. I can't see the community being *very* wrong about much in this set.

User Info: mada7

mada7
2 months ago#13
GujinKami posted...
mada7 posted...
Aluneth has the problem of you never being able to keep up with that kind of card influx each turn

The kind of deck that runs Aluneth won't care about care value at that point. Once you drip Aluneth, your game plan shifts to "how many burn spells can I drag and drop at my opponent's face?"

How good a Burn Mage will be is up in question right now, but that's the kind of deck Aluneth will find a home in, not some theoretical Value Mage deck.


Most of the burn spells are expensive to the point of only being able to play 1 or 2 per turn. What will happen in that deck is you will end up burning through most of your deck including possibly losing your win conditions faster than you can kill a player. Drawing 4 cards per turn is useless if you can only play 1 and have to discard the other 3 each turn. Aluneth starts burning your cards likely at the second time it triggers.
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User Info: GujinKami

GujinKami
2 months ago#14
mada7 posted...
Most of the burn spells are expensive to the point of only being able to play 1 or 2 per turn. What will happen in that deck is you will end up burning through most of your deck including possibly losing your win conditions faster than you can kill a player. Drawing 4 cards per turn is useless if you can only play 1 and have to discard the other 3 each turn. Aluneth starts burning your cards likely at the second time it triggers.

And that's perfectly fine. The idea behind Burn Mage is your opponent should be well beyond dead by the time you're worried about burning cards.

So again, the criticism of whether or not burning cards will actually be problematic for a deck like this remains on whether or not But Mage ends up being a competitive deck. If it does, again, milling your deck won't matter, it's what made Felt Reaver a 5 mana 8/8 with 0 downsides. If it doesn't though, that's most likely the fault of the deck not being good enough, or the meta being far too defensive for the deck to actually shine.
~Gujin
http://i.imgur.com/39lX5ve.jpg http://i.imgur.com/9S9glYE.png http://i.imgur.com/jchyRfp.jpg

User Info: mada7

mada7
2 months ago#15
GujinKami posted...
mada7 posted...
Most of the burn spells are expensive to the point of only being able to play 1 or 2 per turn. What will happen in that deck is you will end up burning through most of your deck including possibly losing your win conditions faster than you can kill a player. Drawing 4 cards per turn is useless if you can only play 1 and have to discard the other 3 each turn. Aluneth starts burning your cards likely at the second time it triggers.

And that's perfectly fine. The idea behind Burn Mage is your opponent should be well beyond dead by the time you're worried about burning cards.

So again, the criticism of whether or not burning cards will actually be problematic for a deck like this remains on whether or not But Mage ends up being a competitive deck. If it does, again, milling your deck won't matter, it's what made Felt Reaver a 5 mana 8/8 with 0 downsides. If it doesn't though, that's most likely the fault of the deck not being good enough, or the meta being far too defensive for the deck to actually shine.


The deck would have 2 each of fireball, frostbolt, firelands portal, pyroblast, shifting scroll and arcane missile. For the most part you're stuck playing 1 of these per turn. At this rate you have a high chance of losing your win conditions. With the current meta rogue and warlock will pound that kind of deck into the dirt and priest and druid can easily survive. I'll give you that it could be viable in such a deck but the odds of that deck working in this meta are pretty low.
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User Info: Nidtendofreak

Nidtendofreak
2 months ago#16
mada7 posted...
GujinKami posted...
mada7 posted...
Most of the burn spells are expensive to the point of only being able to play 1 or 2 per turn. What will happen in that deck is you will end up burning through most of your deck including possibly losing your win conditions faster than you can kill a player. Drawing 4 cards per turn is useless if you can only play 1 and have to discard the other 3 each turn. Aluneth starts burning your cards likely at the second time it triggers.

And that's perfectly fine. The idea behind Burn Mage is your opponent should be well beyond dead by the time you're worried about burning cards.

So again, the criticism of whether or not burning cards will actually be problematic for a deck like this remains on whether or not But Mage ends up being a competitive deck. If it does, again, milling your deck won't matter, it's what made Felt Reaver a 5 mana 8/8 with 0 downsides. If it doesn't though, that's most likely the fault of the deck not being good enough, or the meta being far too defensive for the deck to actually shine.


The deck would have 2 each of fireball, frostbolt, firelands portal, pyroblast, shifting scroll and arcane missile. For the most part you're stuck playing 1 of these per turn. At this rate you have a high chance of losing your win conditions. With the current meta rogue and warlock will pound that kind of deck into the dirt and priest and druid can easily survive. I'll give you that it could be viable in such a deck but the odds of that deck working in this meta are pretty low.


That's why its running secrets as well: not only for the new one, but because the synergy options allows you to dump cards faster as well. And of course you're also running things like Mana Wyrm and whatnot. Maybe a few stall cards like Frost Nova.

You probably only have 2-3 cards in hand when you first play the weapon, and your opponent is probably at half health. You don't need more than a few turns of more burn to finish them off at that point.

It will have to be optimized, but I think Burn Mage will be a thing. They have the potential to be dealing 30 face damage by like turn 6 or 7. The real question to me is if the new Exodia Mage will ultimately push it out of the meta or not, because that deck looks nasty to me.
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User Info: mada7

mada7
2 months ago#17
Nidtendofreak posted...
mada7 posted...
GujinKami posted...
mada7 posted...
Most of the burn spells are expensive to the point of only being able to play 1 or 2 per turn. What will happen in that deck is you will end up burning through most of your deck including possibly losing your win conditions faster than you can kill a player. Drawing 4 cards per turn is useless if you can only play 1 and have to discard the other 3 each turn. Aluneth starts burning your cards likely at the second time it triggers.

And that's perfectly fine. The idea behind Burn Mage is your opponent should be well beyond dead by the time you're worried about burning cards.

So again, the criticism of whether or not burning cards will actually be problematic for a deck like this remains on whether or not But Mage ends up being a competitive deck. If it does, again, milling your deck won't matter, it's what made Felt Reaver a 5 mana 8/8 with 0 downsides. If it doesn't though, that's most likely the fault of the deck not being good enough, or the meta being far too defensive for the deck to actually shine.


The deck would have 2 each of fireball, frostbolt, firelands portal, pyroblast, shifting scroll and arcane missile. For the most part you're stuck playing 1 of these per turn. At this rate you have a high chance of losing your win conditions. With the current meta rogue and warlock will pound that kind of deck into the dirt and priest and druid can easily survive. I'll give you that it could be viable in such a deck but the odds of that deck working in this meta are pretty low.


That's why its running secrets as well: not only for the new one, but because the synergy options allows you to dump cards faster as well. And of course you're also running things like Mana Wyrm and whatnot. Maybe a few stall cards like Frost Nova.

You probably only have 2-3 cards in hand when you first play the weapon, and your opponent is probably at half health. You don't need more than a few turns of more burn to finish them off at that point.

It will have to be optimized, but I think Burn Mage will be a thing. They have the potential to be dealing 30 face damage by like turn 6 or 7. The real question to me is if the new Exodia Mage will ultimately push it out of the meta or not, because that deck looks nasty to me.


In that scenario you're just better off with arcane intellect as it doesnt waste a turn in the late game when you want to be pushing in that last bit of damage. If you're already running those a single burn spell more seems like a more efficient choice than drawing a bunch of cards youll never need.

Even then though I don't see this as a viable deck in a meta so loaded with priests and druids that can stall and rogues and warlocks that can tempo you down faster than burn spells
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User Info: GujinKami

GujinKami
2 months ago#18
mada7 posted...
The deck would have 2 each of fireball, frostbolt, firelands portal, pyroblast, shifting scroll and arcane missile. For the most part you're stuck playing 1 of these per turn. At this rate you have a high chance of losing your win conditions.

I think you're underestimating how much burn, fuel and options Mages really have access to. Things like Mana Wyrm, Sorcerer's Apprentice and Primordial Glyph can offer huge early swing turns as well as offer enough conditional burn in the process to really make a threatening list. On top of that, the new Explosive Rune can make Arcanologist another auto include, and with the random spell generation in their Spellstone alongside the new discount elemental they have, there's even exploration in that territory.

During the first month of Un'Goro, there was a silly list that worked really well that included a bunch of early options, and the finisher was playing Hemet so all your late game draws ended up being Fireballs, Portals and Pyroblasts, and that was actually more than enough to take games.

I'm all for skepticism, but Mage really is a wild card this expansion, and while I agree Anuleth or whatever it is may have gotten overhyped, I can easily seen the potential destruction it can bring to many decks that leave it unchecked.
~Gujin
http://i.imgur.com/39lX5ve.jpg http://i.imgur.com/9S9glYE.png http://i.imgur.com/jchyRfp.jpg

User Info: Xeroxicide

Xeroxicide
2 months ago#19
Duskbreaker, easily. It's a great card, don't get me wrong, but people calling it the greatest card ever released in Hearthstone are massively overrating it in my opinion.

It's very comparable to Drakonid Operative in the sense that it would be an insanely OP, auto-include in every Priest deck... if not for the Dragon limitation.

I think people are going to experiment a lot with different versions of Dragon Priest, but I don't see how any version of that deck will be better than Raza DK Priest.

I think the card will see a decent amount of play over the lifetime of this expansion, but once Drakonid OP rotates out I think Dragon Priest will fall off the map.
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User Info: GujinKami

GujinKami
2 months ago#20
mada7 posted...
Even then though I don't see this as a viable deck in a meta so loaded with priests and druids that can stall and rogues and warlocks that can tempo you down faster than burn spells

Funny enough, the only tanky class there is Druid, and if you get a decent enough start as Mage, their dead anyway.

And the rest can easily be burned out. Priest isn't as stally as you think, as their best lists either involve them cheating out a big minion really fast, or playing a singleton deck and cheating out a bulls*** it really fast. Rogues and Warlocks have the same issue, where they ignore sustain and on just board control. Warlock will be extremely susceptible to burn from Mage in this upcoming expansion.

The thing that made Mage so strong last year was that Shaman had no real sustain, so simply dragging burn spells at their face was good enough most of the time. That can also be applied here. Now granted the classes can run tech cards if Mage becomes way too prevalent, such as Greater Healing Potion, Evasion, or even the new Warlock card that sacs a creature and heals you for 8. And if Mage becomes too dominant, we may also see a resurgance of Warriors and Paladins, which can be natural counters to Mage simply by how much more effective their self sustain is.

But that's in the best case scenario, where every non-Hunter class has a fair reason to exist on ladder. Maybe the new ladder will just be nothing different than what we have now, but it's at least nice to speculate a future with a considerable amount of variety. Like it or not, we got a ton of variety during Un'Goro, and it would be fun to see that come back with this expansion.
~Gujin
http://i.imgur.com/39lX5ve.jpg http://i.imgur.com/9S9glYE.png http://i.imgur.com/jchyRfp.jpg
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