Warrior Lego Wep: Woecleaver

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User Info: azweik

azweik
4 months ago#31
For me it comes down, too

1. How many minions worth recruiting , can you even put in your deck

2. And how consistent, will you draw this in the right order, if you start adding cards like
Forge of souls --> see 1.

Dead mans hand might be a thing, with this

User Info: mada7

mada7
4 months ago#32
k_pflipsen posted...
I've been a pretty big critic of the legendary weapons thus far, but... "I think this card is actually decent." Am I really saying this???

Obviously this card goes in a Control/Big Warrior deck that will play nothing but spells and weapons in the early game. The only minions would be 7+ mana, and probably 8+. So I think it's reasonable to think about this card as adding a 3/3 weapon onto an already-playable 8-drop, which is fairly impressive value. It's like giving Lich King or Ysera "Battlecry: Equip a 3/3 weapon."

But the real reason I think this card is good is because it presents TWO big threats at once. The weapon itself is a must-answer threat, and the minion it pulls is likely also a must-answer threat. It's really difficult for opponents to have answers to BOTH the turn it's played. And if either sticks, that can win you the game.


A 3/3 weapon that late in the game is almost irrelevant. This is the big problem with so many of the recruit cards. They're attached to bodies that are massive tempo losses so sure you get a big minion slightly earlier but you're losing their battlecry effects which is a big deal and you can't guarantee you get what you need when you need it. Tempo is very important in the game right now and if you give up tempo against prince rogue or zoo for the sake of a card that will provide value later you're going to get steamrolled especially when you're talking about a turn 8 or later play.

Warrior in particular can't get away with an all spell and weapon deck in the early game. The class is severely lacking in card draw so you basically need acolyte in any slow warrior deck. On top of that to survive as a warrior in the early game youd need either armorsmith or drywhisker armorer so you can't go no cheap minions. The major weakness of "EZ Big" decks is drawing the big guys too early. Priest gets around this by having tutors for them and ways to resurrect the big minion on the cheap and druid ramps up to being able to play them quickly enough that it can survive drawing some too early. Warrior doesn't have a way around the drawing your minions early problem because they have poor card draw.

To add even more to this awfulness even if it does grab you Grom or Ysera you're better off just putting another big minion in the deck because they cost basically the same as this weapon. If it were a 5 or 6 cost weapon with the same stats that would be a conversation worth having but getting a 3/2 weapon on turn 8 with an 8 drop isn't a big deal
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User Info: LightHawKnight

LightHawKnight
4 months ago#33
If it only said recruit a 4 cost or higher minion....
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User Info: k_pflipsen

k_pflipsen
4 months ago#34
mada7 posted...
A 3/3 weapon that late in the game is almost irrelevant. This is the big problem with so many of the recruit cards. They're attached to bodies that are massive tempo losses so sure you get a big minion slightly earlier but you're losing their battlecry effects which is a big deal and you can't guarantee you get what you need when you need it. Tempo is very important in the game right now and if you give up tempo against prince rogue or zoo for the sake of a card that will provide value later you're going to get steamrolled especially when you're talking about a turn 8 or later play.

Warrior in particular can't get away with an all spell and weapon deck in the early game. The class is severely lacking in card draw so you basically need acolyte in any slow warrior deck. On top of that to survive as a warrior in the early game youd need either armorsmith or drywhisker armorer so you can't go no cheap minions. The major weakness of "EZ Big" decks is drawing the big guys too early. Priest gets around this by having tutors for them and ways to resurrect the big minion on the cheap and druid ramps up to being able to play them quickly enough that it can survive drawing some too early. Warrior doesn't have a way around the drawing your minions early problem because they have poor card draw.
I used to play a lot of control warrior a few years ago, and tempo isn't important to that deck archetype. They'll have a lot of removal, and enough board clears to punish tempo decks. Whirlwind effect + Fishies. Brawl. Reckless Fury. Slam + Execute. Shield Block + Shield Slam. Yes, the deck lacks card draw (likely relying on Slam + Shield Block), but old school control warriors were fine with that as well. You mulligan for big answers to the type of minions you expect to be facing, then just sit back the first few turns and let your opponent play into your cards. Classic control warrior would often have their opponents stuck in a bind of "If I over-commit, I get punished and I lose, but if I don't the warrior will win the late game because of all of the big threats."

And the meta is definitely going to shift anyways. Tempo decks are likely going to be less good now with Dragon Control Priest becoming a thing and clearing their small and medium minions efficiently. Besides, no deck has favorable match-ups vs everything. Your deck can be good based only on being able to curb-stomp one of the top decks in the meta. Razakus should stay a top deck, and it seems like this kind of Warrior would beat up on them.
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User Info: mada7

mada7
4 months ago#35
k_pflipsen posted...
mada7 posted...
A 3/3 weapon that late in the game is almost irrelevant. This is the big problem with so many of the recruit cards. They're attached to bodies that are massive tempo losses so sure you get a big minion slightly earlier but you're losing their battlecry effects which is a big deal and you can't guarantee you get what you need when you need it. Tempo is very important in the game right now and if you give up tempo against prince rogue or zoo for the sake of a card that will provide value later you're going to get steamrolled especially when you're talking about a turn 8 or later play.

Warrior in particular can't get away with an all spell and weapon deck in the early game. The class is severely lacking in card draw so you basically need acolyte in any slow warrior deck. On top of that to survive as a warrior in the early game youd need either armorsmith or drywhisker armorer so you can't go no cheap minions. The major weakness of "EZ Big" decks is drawing the big guys too early. Priest gets around this by having tutors for them and ways to resurrect the big minion on the cheap and druid ramps up to being able to play them quickly enough that it can survive drawing some too early. Warrior doesn't have a way around the drawing your minions early problem because they have poor card draw.
I used to play a lot of control warrior a few years ago, and tempo isn't important to that deck archetype. They'll have a lot of removal, and enough board clears to punish tempo decks. Whirlwind effect + Fishies. Brawl. Reckless Fury. Slam + Execute. Shield Block + Shield Slam. Yes, the deck lacks card draw (likely relying on Slam + Shield Block), but old school control warriors were fine with that as well. You mulligan for big answers to the type of minions you expect to be facing, then just sit back the first few turns and let your opponent play into your cards. Classic control warrior would often have their opponents stuck in a bind of "If I over-commit, I get punished and I lose, but if I don't the warrior will win the late game because of all of the big threats."

And the meta is definitely going to shift anyways. Tempo decks are likely going to be less good now with Dragon Control Priest becoming a thing and clearing their small and medium minions efficiently. Besides, no deck has favorable match-ups vs everything. Your deck can be good based only on being able to curb-stomp one of the top decks in the meta. Razakus should stay a top deck, and it seems like this kind of Warrior would beat up on them.


Except those decks relied on the 2 mana war axe, armor smith, sludge belcher, and acolyte of pain in the early and mid game. This was my favorite deck for a long time and I'd love to see it come back but this weapon is too slow and too bad for that. The old control warrior ran all those card draw card you listed and still needed some early game minions. There is no reason to play this over say something like Barron Geddon or some other big card rather than a roundabout 8 mana weapon that might get you something useful.

Tempo decks are still going to very much be a thing with keleseth buffing them especially rogue where turn 1 coin + keleseth + shadowstep + keleseth is a thing that happens. Shield Slam, bladed gauntlet and Wreckless Fury are late game options not early ones as aggressive decks will keep your armor low. On top of that Razakus priest is not going anywhere, neither is jade druid, nor are the big priest and druid decks. What positive matchups could this deck possibly have
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User Info: Rioushu

Rioushu
4 months ago#36
Gaze51 posted...
It would've been hilarious if Woecleaver was a 2 mana 3/2.
engligh

User Info: sailorpete

sailorpete
4 months ago#37
Nope the 8 mana 3/3 is real so they are pushing big warrior ugh
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User Info: mada7

mada7
4 months ago#38
And this stream just showed why this weapon is crap. Turn 9 and the weapon can't do anything of any significance
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User Info: Aka_Neko

Aka_Neko
4 months ago#39
mada7 posted...
And this stream just showed why this weapon is crap. Turn 9 and the weapon can't do anything of any significance

The stream showed why all of this whole "Recruit Warrior" is bad. He literally lost to a throwing TOTEM Shaman... -.-'. He even recruited well too, and still lost. The spell that blows up your own armor is another one I said was meh, and was showcased to be meh in the stream, well then.
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