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  3. Can someone explain the point of not maxed Action Boost ?

User Info: Yokoso

Yokoso
11 months ago#1
I just dont get it. You spend a turn to have two actions next turn...so your total output is still 200% for 2 turns, so you dont actually GAIN anything, just waste TP ? Why would anyone use it ??? Why not just use one action per turn and achieve the exact same result, except, you know, more reliable ? As next turn you could get stunned or bound and both your actions are lost ?

User Info: Emonzaemon

Emonzaemon
11 months ago#2
Action Boost at levels 5-9 gives you 2-3 actions on your next turn. There are some uses for levels 1-4, like waiting a turn in order to have both actions benefit from a damage-boosting buff.

User Info: VulcanGrinch

VulcanGrinch
11 months ago#3
Balance issues, probably. Imagine it starting at 2-3 actions at level 1 and only getting better.

User Info: SniperOX

SniperOX
11 months ago#4
Emonzaemon posted...
Action Boost at levels 5-9 gives you 2-3 actions on your next turn. There are some uses for levels 1-4, like waiting a turn in order to have both actions benefit from a damage-boosting buff.
It's one of the main reasons I like charge skills for.

VulcanGrinch posted...
Balance issues, probably. Imagine it starting at 2-3 actions at level 1 and only getting better.
Indeed that would have broken the game even more.

Yokoso posted...
I just dont get it. You spend a turn to have two actions next turn...so your total output is still 200% for 2 turns, so you dont actually GAIN anything, just waste TP ? Why would anyone use it ??? Why not just use one action per turn and achieve the exact same result, except, you know, more reliable ? As next turn you could get stunned or bound and both your actions are lost ?
Action Boost can be considered like a charge skill in the same category as Charge, Limitless or Triple Charge. Having said that, this kind of skills is always useful even when the damage output doesn't benefit of a x2 multiplier. I already talked about this kind of mechanic on this topic: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/204286-shin-megami-tensei-strange-journey-redux/76972666?page=1
In most of the games, even if a charge skill merely doubles your next damage output, in other word, a simple x2 multiplier (no more or a little less), it's still valuable to use it. Like they said it already, it lessens the mp usage and take advantage of some buffs that can be set after a set number of turns or can't be abused continuously. In addition, the charge skills are also useful in order to prevent some bosses to spam annoying move they use when their hp hit a certain threshold.

Let’s say with a given skill you can kill a boss in 2 turns:
-After using the skill one time the said boss is barely clinging to life but meet the low hp criteria to recourse to its last resort. In that situation, if you are not fast enough to finish it or its trump card has a speed priority, you will struggle to see the end of the fight or in the worst case you will be annihilated.
-Instead of doing the same move twice to win, you decide to charge the first turn and attack the second one. By doing that, the boss is killed without a chance to annoy you with its nastiest skill.

User Info: Yokoso

Yokoso
10 months ago#5
-Instead of doing the same move twice to win, you decide to charge the first turn and attack the second one


Well, that is sound theory, but in practice i dont believe such a thing will ever happen. In a normal pre-post game you will never encounter this scenario as bosses will access their desperation move far earlier than you would get to the point of two-shotting them. And in post game you already have the points to max the skill out so the point is moot anyway. Is there a boss in the game that gets a desperation move 5% HP away from death ? Unless they changed it for Untold - i dont think there is.

User Info: Enfinete

Enfinete
10 months ago#6
Emonzaemon posted...
There are some uses for levels 1-4, like waiting a turn in order to have both actions benefit from a damage-boosting buff.

I think this is the best rationale really. In EOU's specific case, moves like Wolf Pack (Seven King Grimoire) is a turn-only buff. Doing 2x on next move will help Wolf Pack user to have a free action, as opposed to using Wolf Pack 2 turns in a row. Hexer's Muting Words also applies here.

Boost system is also a consideration. The attacker can do more damage with Charge -> Boost!attack skill, versus just Boosting on one attack and using non-boosted attack on another.

Yokoso posted...
Well, that is sound theory, but in practice i dont believe such a thing will ever happen. In a normal pre-post game you will never encounter this scenario as bosses will access their desperation move far earlier than you would get to the point of two-shotting them. And in post game you already have the points to max the skill out so the point is moot anyway. Is there a boss in the game that gets a desperation move 5% HP away from death ? Unless they changed it for Untold - i dont think there is.

You can deal enough damage and kill bosses in a matter of few turns, depending on what you stack. If you have all of the following: Boost, Muting Words, Wolf Pack, Charge, Wrath's Might (passive)... for example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0GUwE7cBjk is my oooold recording vs story final boss. You can start doing something like this somewhere in S3 without too much SP crunch.
"The Story will become Legend...." - From Riviera: The Promised Land

User Info: SniperOX

SniperOX
10 months ago#7
Yokoso posted...
-Instead of doing the same move twice to win, you decide to charge the first turn and attack the second one


Well, that is sound theory, but in practice i dont believe such a thing will ever happen. In a normal pre-post game you will never encounter this scenario as bosses will access their desperation move far earlier than you would get to the point of two-shotting them. And in post-game you already have the points to max the skill out so the point is moot anyway. Is there a boss in the game that gets a desperation move 5% HP away from death ? Unless they changed it for Untold - i dont think there is.
Only a theory you say? This viewpoint is correct only if you can prove the case scenario I talked about can never happen which is just impossible due to the way the theory is stated at the beginning: "Let’s say with a given skill you can kill a boss in 2 turns".
In fact, I didn’t state the whole battle lasts two turns or from the start the boss can be killed with two shots, I simply pointed out the possibility to kill with a given move used twice without describing the circumstances which make that feasible (yet Enfinete’s video just above proved the battle with a major boss can last two turns). After all, we are talking about a game where you tackle dungeon with a team of five characters and bosses have far more HP than your whole crew can reach. In this regard, unless stated otherwise any theory is thought with the idea there is an entire team at work. Even if there is only one character attacking, the others teammates can help the first one to improve his damage output with buff, debuff, ailment affliction etc. Considering that, at a point in any battle, during post-game, it’s possible for a damage dealer to kill a boss in 1 or 2 turns.

A good example is Alraune' Spider lily, used when her hp drop at 25%. If you can damage her as much without charging, with a charged skill which boost damage at least by 1,7 (Triple Charge lv10) she would be already dead.

A last thing: Why someone would want to stick with a non maxed Action Boost during the postgame? For reminder, the possibility to max Action Boost is dependant of the mode the player chooses at the beginning. In story mode, there is no problem given the fact the gunner is available but in the classic mode, the only way to access this skill is through a grimoire found in a chest. As many can expect the skill is at a low level (less than level 5). Why someone would want to use it despite this low level? Action Boost not maxed means two attacks, so a x2 multiplier for any damaging skill being physical or magical. During the first playthrough in classic mode, the best charge skill (damage-wise) they can max is Charge, an enemy skill that gives us a x1,9 boost. Its flaw is it applies only to physical attack. So Alchemist’s formula skills don’t benefit from it. Conclusion: For an Alchemist, non-maxed Action Boost is a valuable choice during the first playthrough in classic mode.

Enfinete posted...
Emonzaemon posted...
There are some uses for levels 1-4, like waiting a turn in order to have both actions benefit from a damage-boosting buff.

I think this is the best rationale really. In EOU's specific case, moves like Wolf Pack (Seven King Grimoire) is a turn-only buff. Doing 2x on next move will help Wolf Pack user to have a free action, as opposed to using Wolf Pack 2 turns in a row. Hexer's Muting Words also applies here.
The truth has been spoken!
Yet, nice video. It gave me some ideas. I already use Muting Word actively to improve damage output (the Hexer is one of my favourite class after all) but I never considered the possibility to exploit a boosted Muting Word. Thank you for your teaching!

User Info: bestoml

bestoml
10 months ago#8
in most case charge is better,but in final boss, action boost is best,because in level 10,it act 3 times,it means 3x damage;and in boss ,it's state is 3 attack state up, and boss is 3 defense down,"action boost"+"attack skill" +wolf pack = 3XATTACK, charge is 2X.
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