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  3. Shuckle's Damage Output Surpassed?

User Info: TBF Bri 10

TBF Bri 10
6 years ago#1
This was posted on the forums at Smogon, but I thought you guys would be interested in this as well.

With the addition of the ability Protean and the move Forest's Curse in Gen 6, a light bulb turned on in my mind. For multiple generations, Shuckle has been the Undisputed Champion of Damage Output. Due to Rollout's massive power of 960 after Rollout and Shuckle's Power Trick'D attack of 614, it was hard to go against it. However, Ice Ball is also boosted by Defense Curl, and with Grass being Weak to Ice, you could have a Pokemon with three typed weak to Ice. With the ability Protean, you can change a Pokemon's type to become Ice, giving it stab. After this quick thinking, I thought that a Pokemon might finally be able to surpass Shuckle.

Here is what I found out:

User:

Shuckle @ Metronome
Level: 100
Ability: Any
IVs: 31 Def
EVs: 252 Def
+Def Nature
Maximum Defense: 614

- Defense Curl
- Power Swap
- Rollout
- Any

Opponent:

Ledyba @ Any
Level: 1
Ability: Any
Ivs: 0 Def
EVs: 0 Def
-Def Nature
Minimum Defense: 4

Use Defense Curl for 2x power Rollout
Use Defense Curl until Shuckle is at +6 Defense
Use Power Trick
Skill Swap Pure Power or Huge Power onto Shuckle
Use Screech on Ledyba until it is at -6 Defense
Use Rollout until Metronome is at maximum potency
Use Sunny Day to activate Flower Gift
Ally uses Helping Hand
On Rollout's 5th hit, get a critical hit

Psypoke's Damage Calculator:

Your Pokemon:

Shuckle
Level: 100
Type: Bug/Rock
Att/Spec Att: 614
Def/Spec Def: -
Stat Modifiers: 6
Ability: Pure Power

Your Opponent:

Ledyba
Level: 1
Type: Bug/Flying
Att/Spec Att: -
Def/Spec Def: 30
Stat Modifiers: -6
Ability: Ignore Ability

Your attack: Rollout

Shuckle's Item: Metronome
Number of Consecutive Uses: 10

Global Battle Effects:

- Sunny Day
- Critical Hit
- Defense Curl
- Helping Hand
- Partner's Flower Gift

Results:

Defense Curl boosts the base power for Rollout with a 2.0× multiplier
Helping Hand strengthened the power of Rollout with a 1.5× multiplier
Shuckle's Pure Power boosted its Attack with a 2.0× multiplier
Shuckle's partner's Flower Gift boosted its Attack with a 1.5× multiplier
Shuckle's Metronome strengthened the power of Rollout with a 2.0× multiplier
Shuckle gets the Same Type Attack Bonus (STAB) for Rollout

MAXIMUM DAMAGE: 213,896,016

According to Bulbapedia, if you include two instances of both Flower Gift and Helping Hand in a Triple Battle, the maximum amount of damage you can get is 481,266,000. To see if you can do this multiplier after STAB bonus is calculated, let's add two more 1.5x bonuses:

213,896,016 x 1.5 = 320,844,024
320,844,024 x 1.5 = 481,266,036

The final result is only off by 36 from Bulbapedia's number, so it is negligible.

Now, here is what I found out about Swampert:

User:

Swampert @ Metronome
Level: 100
Ability: Any
IVs: 31 Att
EVs: 252 Att
+Att Nature
Maximum Attack: 350
- Defense Curl
- Ice Ball
- Any
- Any

Opponent:

Noibat @ Any
Level: 1
Ability: Any
Ivs: 0 Def
Evs: 0 Def
-Def Nature
Minimum Defense: 4

Swampert can learn the move Ice Ball through breeding. Swampert can learn the move Defense Curl through an Emerald Move Tutor. After that, you trade Swampert from Emerald to a Gen 4 game, then to a Gen 5 game, and then to a Gen 6 game, making this a legal combination.

The move Power Split only affects stat stage changes but not changes through the use of the ability Stance Change or the move Power Trick.

[CONTINUED]
Survivor of 60-Day Purgatory
"Do you know that it's only beginning?" - Ron Paul

User Info: TBF Bri 10

TBF Bri 10
6 years ago#2
Swampert is the strongest Pokemon that can use Ice Ball
Have Shuckle use Power Trick
Have Shuckle use Power Split with Swampert
Swampert's Attack is now 482
Use Defense Curl for 2x power Ice Ball
Use Swagger on Swampert until it has +6 Attack
Skill Swap Protean onto Swampert
Have Swampert use Ice Ball to turn into an Ice type for the STAB bonus
Use Forest's Curse on Noibat to add a Grass type
Noibat is now Flying/Dragon/Grass
Skill Swap Pure Power or Huge Power onto Swampert
Use Screech on Noibat until it is at -6 Defense
Use Ice Ball until Metronome is at maximum potency
Use Sunny Day to activate Flower Gift
Ally uses Helping Hand
On Ice Ball's 5th hit, get a critical hit

Psypoke's Damage Calculator:

Your Pokemon:

Swampert
Level: 100
Type: Ice
Att/Spec Att: 482
Def/Spec Def: -
Stat Modifiers: 6
Ability: Pure Power

Your Opponent:

Noibat
Level: 1
Type: Flying/Dragon
Att/Spec Att: -
Def/Spec Def: 4
Stat Modifiers: -6
Ability: Ignore Ability

Your attack: Ice Ball

Swampert's Item: Metronome
Number of Consecutive Uses: 10

Global Battle Effects:

- Sunny Day
- Critical Hit
- Defense Curl
- Helping Hand
- Partner's Flower Gift

Results:

Defense Curl boosts the base power for Ice Ball with a 2.0× multiplier
Helping Hand strengthened the power of Ice Ball with a 1.5× multiplier
Swampert's Pure Power boosted its Attack with a 2.0× multiplier
Swampert's partner's Flower Gift boosted its Attack with a 1.5× multiplier
Swampert's Metronome strengthened the power of Ice Ball with a 2.0× multiplier
Swampert gets the Same Type Attack Bonus (STAB) for Ice Ball

MAXIMUM DAMAGE: 167,911,872

However, this damage is only with the attack being 4x effective. I've seen many arguments online as to whether a triple weakness would be 6x or 8x weak, and it seems like 8x weak is the way to go since weaknesses are multiplicative. Therefore, 167,911,872 should be multiplied by 2 to get 335,823,744. Next, the extra Flower Gift and Helping Hand bonuses are added to account for a Triple Battle:

335,823,744 x 1.5 = 503,735,616
503,735,616 x 1.5 = 755,603,424

SHUCKLE'S MAXIMUM DAMAGE: 481,266,036
SWAMPERT'S MAXIMUM DAMAGE: 755,603,424

If I have made any mistakes or if anything can be added, let me know.

If everything is correct, Swampert is the new Undisputed Champion of Damage Output.
Survivor of 60-Day Purgatory
"Do you know that it's only beginning?" - Ron Paul

User Info: CyD13

CyD13
6 years ago#3
Congrats.
3DS Friend code: 1091-8695-6584
PM me if you add me!

User Info: GaiamageX

GaiamageX
6 years ago#4
Nice thought experiment! We should test the x8 weakness.
Final Fantasy XIII
- March 9, 2010 -

User Info: HHDeception

HHDeception
6 years ago#5
Cool. No seriously. Lots of work there. Cool.
Sound good?

User Info: Pendragon71037

Pendragon71037
6 years ago#6
There should be a special in-game text for reaching the highest possible damage.
Chuck Finley is Forever! People that agree: 5. I believe in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior and am 100% proud of it. Yeah, it's hot, but it's a dry heat.

User Info: tarzanmx

tarzanmx
6 years ago#7
Interesting...
Why, hello.
"Noibat hung on with focus band!"
Adults: Smart, hammered, and excited by nothing.

User Info: Burning_Breeze

Burning_Breeze
6 years ago#9
There's one problem with this: Swampert is not actually the strongest person who can use Ice Ball. Sure, he's the strongest who can use it directly, but what about assist? 3rd gen move tutor metronome? 3rd gen Machamp can get metronome, so can ursaring. Granbull doesn't even need the 3rd gen tutor, as he has it as an egg move.

It's extraordinarily unlikely, but it could happen that one of these pokemon can do even more damage than the figure you listed for Swampert.

Edit: Something else I have to ask: not that it makes any difference to the final answer, but did you factor in the change in the critical hit modifier from 2x to 1.5x? because that would seriously affect the final numbers.
Our divided brothers we slay

User Info: TBF Bri 10

TBF Bri 10
6 years ago#10
Burning_Breeze posted...
There's one problem with this: Swampert is not actually the strongest person who can use Ice Ball. Sure, he's the strongest who can use it directly, but what about assist? 3rd gen move tutor metronome? 3rd gen Machamp can get metronome, so can ursaring. Granbull doesn't even need the 3rd gen tutor, as he has it as an egg move.

It's extraordinarily unlikely, but it could happen that one of these pokemon can do even more damage than the figure you listed for Swampert.

Edit: Something else I have to ask: not that it makes any difference to the final answer, but did you factor in the change in the critical hit modifier from 2x to 1.5x? because that would seriously affect the final numbers.


Wow, I did not even take into account the sheer impossibility of Metronome picking Ice Ball 10 times in a row. I'll have to do some recalculations.

Does Sniper do 2x, 2.5x, or 3x in Gen 6?
Survivor of 60-Day Purgatory
"Do you know that it's only beginning?" - Ron Paul
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