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User Info: Dcrenshaw04

Dcrenshaw04
4 weeks ago#221
AltusJ posted...
Nicodimus posted...
AltusJ posted...
WTGHookshot posted...
Nicodimus posted...
EvilGiygas posted...
Nicodimus posted...
Breaking the wheel would mean recognizing that having a king or queen doesn't work (or at the very least is bad because it always leads to war and bloodshed) and dismantling that system in favor of a new one. Making someone else king (especially a robot with no humanity left like Bran) isn't breaking the wheel, it's replacing some of the spokes.

It's literally what they meant by breaking the wheel though... A new approach.


Breaking the wheel doesn't mean putting new people into the existing system. It means breaking the system and replacing it with a new, better one...which they didn't.

They didn't break the full thing... That would require breaking the whole basis of nobility (i.e., lords and ladies). But they did turn the kingship into an electoral-based monarchy, instead of one that is obtained via heritage or conquest. Essentially, they turned the king into something more like a lifetime President or Prime Minister.


I thought the wheel was slavery.


That doesn't make a lot of sense in terms of why she was invading Westeros. They didn't show us any slavery there that I can recall. Poor people, but not slaves. I always took it to mean that she was going to break the existing system (monarchy.) Which I also took to be hypocritical because she wanted the iron throne due to her family's past. That's part of the reason I found her a lot less likable after season 4-5.


I was implying that the people were basically slaves under Cersei's rule, because Dany gave no indication she wanted to change anything other than that (except for replacing Cersei with herself).


She just wanted the iron throne. Didn’t help that Cersei beheaded one of Dany’s Friends in front of her.
With the patience of a viper, Black eliminated them all.
PSN-Crenshaw4

User Info: WTGHookshot

WTGHookshot
4 weeks ago#222
AltusJ posted...
WTGHookshot posted...
Nicodimus posted...
EvilGiygas posted...
Nicodimus posted...
Breaking the wheel would mean recognizing that having a king or queen doesn't work (or at the very least is bad because it always leads to war and bloodshed) and dismantling that system in favor of a new one. Making someone else king (especially a robot with no humanity left like Bran) isn't breaking the wheel, it's replacing some of the spokes.

It's literally what they meant by breaking the wheel though... A new approach.


Breaking the wheel doesn't mean putting new people into the existing system. It means breaking the system and replacing it with a new, better one...which they didn't.

They didn't break the full thing... That would require breaking the whole basis of nobility (i.e., lords and ladies). But they did turn the kingship into an electoral-based monarchy, instead of one that is obtained via heritage or conquest. Essentially, they turned the king into something more like a lifetime President or Prime Minister.


I thought the wheel was slavery.

No. There is no slavery in Westeros (which is why Jorah Mormont was exiled, so that wouldn't make sense for her to conquer Westeros to end slavery... If you watched the show, Tyrion Lannister states that slavery has been outlawed in Westeros for hundreds of years.

As for why is she named Breaker of Chains: she ended slavery in the area of Essos previously known as Slavers' Bay.
Thanos was wrong. Mike Ehrmantraut, "The moral of the story is: I chose a half measure when I should have gone all the way ... No more half measures."

User Info: WTGHookshot

WTGHookshot
4 weeks ago#223
AltusJ posted...
EvilGiygas posted...
AltusJ posted...
Did you read our current conversation?

The conversation doesn't matter if you watched the show dude. Did you watch it or not?


So then the new monarchy will still have slavery?

Then there was no point in any of it.

The old monarchy didn't have slavery in the first place... It had been outlawed in Westeros for hundreds of years.
Thanos was wrong. Mike Ehrmantraut, "The moral of the story is: I chose a half measure when I should have gone all the way ... No more half measures."

User Info: WTGHookshot

WTGHookshot
4 weeks ago#224
Tmo_1992 posted...
Breaking of chains and destroying the wheel are two separate ideas.

Exactly.
Thanos was wrong. Mike Ehrmantraut, "The moral of the story is: I chose a half measure when I should have gone all the way ... No more half measures."

User Info: WTGHookshot

WTGHookshot
4 weeks ago#225
AltusJ posted...
Nicodimus posted...
AltusJ posted...
WTGHookshot posted...
Nicodimus posted...
EvilGiygas posted...
Nicodimus posted...
Breaking the wheel would mean recognizing that having a king or queen doesn't work (or at the very least is bad because it always leads to war and bloodshed) and dismantling that system in favor of a new one. Making someone else king (especially a robot with no humanity left like Bran) isn't breaking the wheel, it's replacing some of the spokes.

It's literally what they meant by breaking the wheel though... A new approach.


Breaking the wheel doesn't mean putting new people into the existing system. It means breaking the system and replacing it with a new, better one...which they didn't.

They didn't break the full thing... That would require breaking the whole basis of nobility (i.e., lords and ladies). But they did turn the kingship into an electoral-based monarchy, instead of one that is obtained via heritage or conquest. Essentially, they turned the king into something more like a lifetime President or Prime Minister.


I thought the wheel was slavery.


That doesn't make a lot of sense in terms of why she was invading Westeros. They didn't show us any slavery there that I can recall. Poor people, but not slaves. I always took it to mean that she was going to break the existing system (monarchy.) Which I also took to be hypocritical because she wanted the iron throne due to her family's past. That's part of the reason I found her a lot less likable after season 4-5.


I was implying that the people were basically slaves under Cersei's rule, because Dany gave no indication she wanted to change anything other than that (except for replacing Cersei with herself).

Well, I think she always intended for it to be a republic. She constantly reminded us in early seasons that she was the queen that her people chose. Jorah chose to follow her instead of Viserys. The Dothraki that stayed behind after Drogo fell chose her as their leader instead of leaving her with the rest of the horde. The slaves she had freed decided to choose her instead of setting someone else up as their leader.

Additionally, she repeatedly has stated she will never bear children, meaning she has no intention of having an heir. She even remarks upon this to Tyrion when he brings up the line of succession if something happens to her and she tells him that she will bear no children.
Thanos was wrong. Mike Ehrmantraut, "The moral of the story is: I chose a half measure when I should have gone all the way ... No more half measures."

User Info: kablamo

kablamo
4 weeks ago#226
Just read an article that stated seasons 6-8 were not written by the creator of the books, but by the creators of the TV show.

Makes sense.

I thought the writing went down hill after season 5.
my name is kablamo. :o)

User Info: AltusJ

AltusJ
4 weeks ago#227
WTGHookshot posted...
Well, I think she always intended for it to be a republic. She constantly reminded us in early seasons that she was the queen that her people chose. Jorah chose to follow her instead of Viserys. The Dothraki that stayed behind after Drogo fell chose her as their leader instead of leaving her with the rest of the horde. The slaves she had freed decided to choose her instead of setting someone else up as their leader.

Additionally, she repeatedly has stated she will never bear children, meaning she has no intention of having an heir. She even remarks upon this to Tyrion when he brings up the line of succession if something happens to her and she tells him that she will bear no children.


The problem with all that is that nobody in Westeros would have chosen her. That's why I felt that she wouldn't be breaking any wheels, unless that wheel had more to do with the freedoms of the people in Westeros.

Slavery was incorrect, but I meant that the people had been living under a tyrannical rule that she was meant to put a stop to. Otherwise there is no wheel to break imo.
PSN: Altus_Janitorius
I have a vest. If I had my arms cut off, it would be a jacket.

User Info: WTGHookshot

WTGHookshot
4 weeks ago#228
AltusJ posted...
WTGHookshot posted...
Well, I think she always intended for it to be a republic. She constantly reminded us in early seasons that she was the queen that her people chose. Jorah chose to follow her instead of Viserys. The Dothraki that stayed behind after Drogo fell chose her as their leader instead of leaving her with the rest of the horde. The slaves she had freed decided to choose her instead of setting someone else up as their leader.

Additionally, she repeatedly has stated she will never bear children, meaning she has no intention of having an heir. She even remarks upon this to Tyrion when he brings up the line of succession if something happens to her and she tells him that she will bear no children.


The problem with all that is that nobody in Westeros would have chosen her. That's why I felt that she wouldn't be breaking any wheels, unless that wheel had more to do with the freedoms of the people in Westeros.

Slavery was incorrect, but I meant that the people had been living under a tyrannical rule that she was meant to put a stop to. Otherwise there is no wheel to break imo.

She planned on taking over Westeros long before Cersei came to power, though.

And the original goal was to make people in Westeros choose her by showing them she would be a good ruler. Hence why Tyrion and Jorah and them told her they aren't going to take the Iron Throne with force... Otherwise, you are just replacing the wheel, like you were mentioning earlier.
Thanos was wrong. Mike Ehrmantraut, "The moral of the story is: I chose a half measure when I should have gone all the way ... No more half measures."

User Info: AltusJ

AltusJ
4 weeks ago#229
WTGHookshot posted...
AltusJ posted...
WTGHookshot posted...
Well, I think she always intended for it to be a republic. She constantly reminded us in early seasons that she was the queen that her people chose. Jorah chose to follow her instead of Viserys. The Dothraki that stayed behind after Drogo fell chose her as their leader instead of leaving her with the rest of the horde. The slaves she had freed decided to choose her instead of setting someone else up as their leader.

Additionally, she repeatedly has stated she will never bear children, meaning she has no intention of having an heir. She even remarks upon this to Tyrion when he brings up the line of succession if something happens to her and she tells him that she will bear no children.


The problem with all that is that nobody in Westeros would have chosen her. That's why I felt that she wouldn't be breaking any wheels, unless that wheel had more to do with the freedoms of the people in Westeros.

Slavery was incorrect, but I meant that the people had been living under a tyrannical rule that she was meant to put a stop to. Otherwise there is no wheel to break imo.

She planned on taking over Westeros long before Cersei came to power, though.

And the original goal was to make people in Westeros choose her by showing them she would be a good ruler. Hence why Tyrion and Jorah and them told her they aren't going to take the Iron Throne with force... Otherwise, you are just replacing the wheel, like you were mentioning earlier.


Meh, I'm just going by her reaction to how the people of Westeros were rejecting her. Their reluctancy turned her so quickly, that it became apparent she never had it in her to win over the people in the first place.

I suppose that's from the poor writing in trying to wrap up the show though.
PSN: Altus_Janitorius
I have a vest. If I had my arms cut off, it would be a jacket.

User Info: EvilGiygas

EvilGiygas
4 weeks ago#230
AltusJ posted...
Are you still going with "I really need to know if you watched the show"?

Yep.
"All games should be playable by all people without practicing or learning things" - skermac
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