Debunking the myth - AAA game ARE NOT too expensive to make.

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User Info: groz24

groz24
5 months ago#71
Sheepinator posted...
groz24 posted...
Your [TC] last line is humorous in that I've been trying to figure out what your [TC] point is, myself.

He is always looking to post how greedy those evil pubs are, and he posts any YT link from no matter how ignorant the source if it reinforces his narrative. Then he thought he'd struck gold, some dude on YT was saying games aren't expensive to make and look, he had charts, with colors, and he had spent two weeks on it! "Huzzah! I've hit the jackpot!" he said to himself, as he feverishly reposted it here. The problem is, the YT guy got it wrong. So now he'll dodge those facts and start complaining about loot boxes or forecasting a crash or something.


To be honest, that's fine, he's entitled to his opinion and to listen to whoever he wants and believe what he wants. Personally, I can't see the point in just flat out believing something on YT, but hey, to each their own.

I really am curious what his point is, though. Because at the end of the day, he's complaining on a website of a few thousand people, I believe, which I can't imagine is going to change the industry. If he believes that strongly about it, though, and does things outside the website to change it, hey, good for him. I just wonder why he cares about MTs and loot boxes when, by his own admission, they have no worth. By that metric, I'd think he'd be grateful that they exist to keep the cost of games down, since he understands they have no value and therefore wouldn't even be tempted to buy them.

If he's trying to save people or make life better for others, that's noble of him, but ultimately, the people who are spending big bucks but can't afford to on MTs or loot boxes would just throw their money at something else and still be in trouble.

It did occur to me, though, as I was working on the puzzle I'm working on, that I didn't really answer his question about what my point was. Partly, I'm bored because my wife and son are gone, it's miserable outside, and video games didn't appeal to me, so I'm drinking and working on a jigsaw puzzle until they get back, and this was a decent conversation, which is rare on GFAQs anymore. But ultimately, my main point is that it's their product, and they're allowed to charge as they see fit within the law. I'm not going to quit gaming over it, or even quit buying certain games because of it, and I'm not going to try to change the system. When it gets to the point I don't like it or it hampers the experience I'm looking for, I'll just not buy the games that are affected.

Sadly, this will be my last post in this topic tonight, as my wife and son should be home soon and I have a Halloween party to go to after dinner. I'll still check the topic, likely tomorrow, because I am curious what the TCs point is/was. And good on the vast majority of you who have kept the topic mostly civil.

User Info: Sheepinator

Sheepinator
5 months ago#72
Good points groz24, and have a good night.
Put. That coffee. Down. Coffee's for closers only.

User Info: DigitalV2

DigitalV2
5 months ago#73
@Sheepinator, I did some more background checks for calculations, and I think you're right, it's closer to 15.7% less. Still, significantly less.
That being said, it doesn't negate his argument. And that's only EA. So stop spamming my topic with the same damn post as if you've delegitimised the entire video/topic.
He supplied this document in the description:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lGS8t84T8excDoTkBZOtapA72H2IGAA0kyHMLtUlVXE/htmlview
I haven't done calculations according to this, but will later.
The Official Broswagonist of the Persona 5 Board.
The Official Armiger Master of the Final Fantasy XV Board.

User Info: DigitalV2

DigitalV2
5 months ago#74
Sheepinator posted...
groz24 posted...
Your [TC] last line is humorous in that I've been trying to figure out what your [TC] point is, myself.

He is always looking to post how greedy those evil pubs are, and he posts any YT link from no matter how ignorant the source if it reinforces his narrative. Then he thought he'd struck gold, some dude on YT was saying games aren't expensive to make and look, he had charts, with colors, and he had spent two weeks on it! "Huzzah! I've hit the jackpot!" he said to himself, as he feverishly reposted it here. The problem is, the YT guy got it wrong. So now he'll dodge those facts and start complaining about loot boxes or forecasting a crash or something.

He misspoke (seemingly) on one point. And his point still stands. There's still a pretty significant decrease in costs there.
I don't need to tell you how greedy publishers are. That's not the point. They've told you themselves.
"Fifa Ultimate Team makes a billion dollars a year. What's your version of that?" ~ an EA Executive to Amy Hennig as she gives a narrative presentation about her Star Wars game.

I can just as easily say that you're always shilling for these faceless corporations, and worse still, you've got no logical reason to do so. You're quite literally b****ing about b****ing.
The Official Broswagonist of the Persona 5 Board.
The Official Armiger Master of the Final Fantasy XV Board.

User Info: Sheepinator

Sheepinator
5 months ago#75
TC, I'm impressed you went back to check and confirmed that I am right and TC was wrong. He didn't "misspeak" though. He spent two weeks on it, he produced charts, he made a video. He was wrong.

You keep missing the point that while yes, as a company they are spending slightly less, they are also producing a fraction as many games. From his charts at 7:00, EA down from 28 to 9, Activision down from 15 to 3. In EA's case, 85% of the spending for 32% as many games. We all love those restaurant analogies. Let's say you started with $100 and went to some restaurant for lunch daily until your money ran out, and you got 10 meals from it. Then you went to a different restaurant starting with $90, and you got 3 meals from it. You spent less overall at the second restaurant, but were its lunches cheaper, the same or more expensive?

All I've done here is promote accuracy and facts. Some call that "defending" or "shilling". That's their own bias talking.
Put. That coffee. Down. Coffee's for closers only.

User Info: DigitalV2

DigitalV2
5 months ago#76
Sheepinator posted...
You keep missing the point that while yes, as a company they are spending slightly less, they are also producing a fraction as many games. From his charts at 7:00, EA down from 28 to 9, Activision down from 15 to 3. In EA's case, 85% of the spending for 32% as many games.

Hey, I fully acknowledge this, even in the OP.
That still doesn't negate what he's saying. The fact is that the games that they do produce sell a heap ton, more than compensating for even overbudgeted titles with game sales alone. They don't need all this extra monetisation.
AAA games are not too expensive to make for these companies, given their output. That's the point.
Now, whether or not they can afford to release more AAA games a year is a different discussion. I can tell you that a lot of games will underperform or barely break even if they release more games, while also keeping microtransactions and unnecessary, overly expensive season passes around.
It's more unpredictable if all that stuff went away and they did release more games.
The Official Broswagonist of the Persona 5 Board.
The Official Armiger Master of the Final Fantasy XV Board.

User Info: Jedi454

Jedi454
5 months ago#77
Users will continue to suck corporate dick anyway
Quitting my job to play Super Mario Odyssey is now considered "trolling". - GameFAQs 2017

User Info: Gatchan2

Gatchan2
5 months ago#78
nickeldreadful posted...
VeryDarkSoul posted...
@nickeldreadful cartridges were also a huge chunk of the production costs. discs cost cents, not dollars, to produce, and digital costs almost nothing


ok and ps1 games were 40 to 50 range..... in 97

so ps4 games should be 60... 20 years later?

does that really compute? Help me out guys im just trying to understand. If you were programming games in 97 and remained doing so now would you be ok with earning the same monies you made back then now? Cause if not, youre about a hypocritical piece of s*** lol


and in the early 90's during the 4th gen, some games cost upwards of $70 to $80
"Call of Duty Players aren't hardcore gamers, or even gamers."
--- Infinity Ward's Mark Rubin

User Info: Sheepinator

Sheepinator
5 months ago#79
DigitalV2 posted...
Sheepinator posted...
You keep missing the point that while yes, as a company they are spending slightly less, they are also producing a fraction as many games. From his charts at 7:00, EA down from 28 to 9, Activision down from 15 to 3. In EA's case, 85% of the spending for 32% as many games.

Hey, I fully acknowledge this, even in the OP.
That still doesn't negate what he's saying. The fact is that the games that they do produce sell a heap ton, more than compensating for even overbudgeted titles with game sales alone. They don't need all this extra monetisation.
AAA games are not too expensive to make for these companies, given their output. That's the point.
Now, whether or not they can afford to release more AAA games a year is a different discussion. I can tell you that a lot of games will underperform or barely break even if they release more games, while also keeping microtransactions and unnecessary, overly expensive season passes around.
It's more unpredictable if all that stuff went away and they did release more games.

You keep saying they don't "need" it, but never provide any data.

Let's continue with the EA numbers then. A few posts ago you said they make $1B in FIFA Ultimate Team. I'll go with the numbers they gave to investors and the SEC. For the fiscal year ended this March they made $1,204M revenue from "Extra Content" which includes $832M from Ultimate Team. The rest I think will be BF1 season pass and dlc, and misc other console games dlc and MTX. To keep things simple, let's say the margins on the UT revenue are 100%, since they require no new content during the year. The margins on that other content may not be 100% if the games require constant updates with new content. Let's call it $900M total profit from MTX.

EA had $1,224M operating income last year, which btw as a % of total revenue is in line with where the company was at in 2003 and 2004, you know, 'the good old days before the evil monetization and greed'. They had to add MTX to maintain the same profit margins as the PS2 days.

So what happens if MTX are taken out of the earnings? Profits would be about 75% less. Profit margins would collapse to under 7%. Huge costs with thin profit margins are a recipe for disaster. It prevents a company from building cash. It opens them up to huge losses if any part of the company under-performs or if there's a recession.

To sum up, operating income as % of net revenue:

2016: 25.2%
2016 without MTX: 6.6%
2004: 21.4%
2003: 26.2%

As usual, I provide sources.

https://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?action=getcompany&CIK=0000712515&type=10-k&dateb=&owner=exclude&count=40
Put. That coffee. Down. Coffee's for closers only.

User Info: CarpeCapricorn

CarpeCapricorn
5 months ago#80
You also need to understand the way big business works. Shareholders require a company to make more profit for the year than they did the year before, or else they start getting cold feet. It doesn't matter if a game is making plenty of profit. If profits are decreasing, even marginally, because games are getting more expensive to make, then it's a huge red flag to shareholders and they all want to jump ship. Lot's of pressure to overperform.
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