Basically, Noel was....(spoilers)

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  2. Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII
  3. Basically, Noel was....(spoilers)

User Info: xfyrenx

xfyrenx
4 months ago#11
Hotel_Security posted...
And, yet, just like Vanille, his guilt is silly since he saved the world from Cocoon falling in FF13-2, yet completely ignores all that and only focuses on the part he screwed up. Vanille's even worse since her and Fang even sacrificed themselves to save Coccoon and she still somehow feels guilty.

But he saved the world, then destroyed it, so his saving it is rendered moot. For Vanille... dunno, guess it depends on how much she did that she feels she needs to atone for.

Also, so people just focus on the negative (because when everything's fine people don't usually notice it), nothing we can do about that.
Don't worry; your manhood will be safe even if one of the PCs in the next game wears pink. Get over it. - EvenSpoonier

User Info: Ahrichu

Ahrichu
4 months ago#12
and thats the biggest problem of idiots that think FF 13 sucks... if you dont know the story and get the detail... dont judge the game
http://steamcommunity.com/id/ahrichu/screenshot/863988952867372088

User Info: Hotel_Security

Hotel_Security
4 months ago#13
and thats the biggest problem of idiots that think FF 13 sucks... if you dont know the story and get the detail... dont judge the game

Is that a comment on me in this case? I know the entire story. And I know it's full of plot holes and a lot of "A wizard did it" moments when they write themselves into a corner. This is not a series about great plot in the least.

User Info: theresay

theresay
4 months ago#14
FFXIII's story was fine, it was complete. The sequels were a mess. When they decided to make a sequel I don't know why they went for time traveling... that was one of the hardest plot elements for story telling. They could've just make a story about how they try to save Fang and Vanille or something like that.

User Info: Hotel_Security

Hotel_Security
4 months ago#15
FF13 SPOILERS BELOW.

FFXIII's story was fine, it was complete.

I thought the lore on the world was done really well and they did decent enough with the struggles of the individual characters though a few like Hope are very annoying. Only problem is the pacing. They resolve almost every character's conflict before you're 2/3 of the way through...from there it's not about the characters and it just falls flat and it's just going from place to place and having Barty talk smack to you.

And while they did a nice job of the dilemma with how they want to complete their Focus but don't want to harm Coccoon, it's clear they had NO idea how to end it. After all this debate with the group, the whole team decides "Well let's just kill Orphan anyway" (giving Barty exactly what he wants) and then "hope for a miracle." Like they literally SAY that they'll just hope for a miracle in the dialogue. I couldn't believe this nonsense as I saw it. Then they kill Orphan and they magically get a miracle with no explanation whatsoever (though they retcon the Etro explanation in FF13-2 after-the-fact, this was not at all a part of FF13's ending). The ending was literally "a wizard did it" which made it about as shaky as the plot of FF13-2 and LR.

And this was especially disappointing in FF13 since they made most of the game linear which should help make the storyline work better and it doesn't. FF13-2 and LR have bad plots too but at least they have the gameplay and extras to make up for it. It's why I look down on FF13 more than the other two...it had bad plot AND lackluster gameplay and a severe lack of side content in comparison to most FF games.

The sequels were a mess. When they decided to make a sequel I don't know why they went for time traveling...

Yeah, the overall story was a mess but they rebounded nicely with Noel's backstory and the last few interactions with Caius in the end. I also liked the tragic ending since I didn't see it coming. LR just made me groan throughout.

User Info: andri_g

andri_g
3 months ago#16
Hotel_Security posted...
LR just made me groan throughout

I think Lightning Returns was a great example of "making the most of what [devs] had to work with."

[ A fractured story in a chaotic world coming to a cataclysmic end. Every character did their best to make sense of the situation. To me, this made the ambiguities enjoyable. ]
'~'

User Info: Hotel_Security

Hotel_Security
3 months ago#17
I think Lightning Returns was a great example of "making the most of what [devs] had to work with."

I think it's more an example of the devs not giving two s***s about plot until they had built most of the game and then coming up with a paper-thin plot to tie it all together after-the-fact while making sure everyone has a happy ending. Which is how the plot of most games is made anyway.

User Info: andri_g

andri_g
3 months ago#18
Game story includes a plot that justifies putting gamers in situations where they must use available mechanics repeatedly, differently, or that are different in order to gain progress. Developers use story and presentation to encourage gamers to continue to use those mechanics until [gamers] reach a level of user mastery a game, its control schemes and system controllers make possible.

Stable designs are built "foundations first". Games that do not start this way usually end-up as an engineer's nightmare: off-schedule, over-budget, and functionally fragile.
.

Hotel_Security posted...
... making sure everyone has a happy ending.

More like bitter-sweet--Caius broke the chaos-barrier, turning its trickle into a flood. He tried to free Yeul from the chaos; instead both he and the world were consumed by it.
'~'

User Info: Hotel_Security

Hotel_Security
3 months ago#19
Stable designs are built "foundations first". Games that do not start this way usually end-up as an engineer's nightmare: off-schedule, over-budget, and functionally fragile.

I'm aware of all of this. And it's because of this that makes me wonder why there are often people on here acting like the plot of these games are all planned games ahead of time. Both the development process and the games themselves emphasize this isn't possible and very rare.

I'm not blaming the devs for games like this having lackluster plot since I expect it from most games...but LR's is a bit much with retcons all over the place and multiple "a wizard did it" solutions. It felt like they didn't even try.

More like bitter-sweet--Caius broke the chaos-barrier, turning its trickle into a flood. He tried to free Yeul from the chaos; instead both he and the world were consumed by it.

And yet he still got to parlay those bad deeds into him settling in as the new guardian for Yuel who gets to settle in as the new Etro...which is basically what he always wanted. Despite literally trying to kill the world, he gets a nice ending too...I was rolling my eyes by that point.

User Info: andri_g

andri_g
3 months ago#20
Hotel_Security posted...
andri_g posted...
More like bitter-sweet--Caius broke the chaos-barrier, turning its trickle into a flood. He tried to free Yeul from the chaos; instead both he and the world were consumed by it.

And yet he still got to parlay those bad deeds into him settling in as the new guardian for Yuel who gets to settle in as the new Etro...which is basically what he always wanted.

Despite literally trying to kill the world, he gets a nice ending too...I was rolling my eyes by that point.

No-o-o... the new guardian for Yeul was Noel; the final Yeul, as seeress at the end of time with no more futures to see, was released from her curse as seeress and endless cycles of death and rebirth.

If you want to argue that Caius' ending is good because his last possible act --thrusting both Noel and the one free Yeul out of the chaos that sustained and tormented him-- was an act of redemption, this is true, but it also is undeniably bitter-sweet; immediately afterwards, Caius is engulfed, doomed to spend eternity with the endless numbers of Yeuls who simultaneously free [kill] him and reclaim [revive] him in a realm of chaos that knows no time. That's a Prometheus-like [Greek mythology] eternal punishment if there ever was one.

[ We don't know if there was anything else he could have done for a different outcome (save himself, etc). ]
'~'
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  3. Basically, Noel was....(spoilers)

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