Artemis Arrows

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User Info: Hotel_Security

Hotel_Security
3 months ago#11
Thanks for the write-up there.

and you will near the end, even if he might initially be affected - be prepared to handle staggering.

This is maybe the one part I'm iffy on...I get basic staggering but there's this stuff on stagger like the "stagger preservation" that I just didn't pay attention to. As far as I can tell it's "pour on multi-hit attacks, preferably the enemy's weakness, until it staggers, slap on debuffs, then use physical attacks." I get that it's not that simple but that seems to work. Though I had a few cases like the Omega Skeleton where I kept staggering him over and over and over and it seemed to have no effect so I know I was missing something there.

Lvl 1 for Days 1-6, Lvl 2 for 7-9, and Lvl 3 for 10-12.

I see. I have like a Level 3 version of most spells at this point, mostly from quests or killing Last Ones so I guess I'd only need more if I want to level them. The leveling doesn't seem like much of a boost, though.

Artemis Arrows may help you after you've staggered it three times, but this boss does have powerful attacks and such like Aeronite, so be careful... also there's something else to note: he's not immune to poison ;)

Okay, I'll likely read up some strategies...and I've read of some "heavy defense garbs" that some had set up so I may try one of those out. I may test it (and Artemis Arrows) against the Chocobo Eaters since, while I can beat them consistently, they really pack a punch and I usually have to burn through a Hi-Potion to do it.

Ethers? Well you get one each from 4 specific Canvas of Prayer quests (Trapped, Ultimate Craving, What's in a Brew?, and Desert Cleanup), one at 10 Unappraised Items from the Dead Dunes kid, and one at 60 Soul Seeds given to the collectors.

Wow, I only remember getting one from a quest (and stupidly used it) and I got the one from the Dead Dunes kid and I've gotta be close to the one from the Soul Seed guys since I just got the "collect 50" trophy. I'll do some grinding in the temple to smash some statues to get the Turbo. I may grind for 40 more seeds when I unlock the bridges too to get the Elixir that way.

Oh and on a side note, the 'Kill All Last Ones' quest? Can only be completed on NG+, because there's three remaining Last Ones in the Final Day dungeon, and once there you can't go back to (any) quest giver

Yeah, I read about that. I'll just make sure to make sure those guys are extinct before I finish the last day and then cash it in next playthrough.

User Info: omegafire18

omegafire18
3 months ago#12
That is basically it, yeah; hit the enemy with a combination of attacks, some with stagger power (like magic) and others with staying power ie 'preservation' (like Attack or Element-strikes, which generally lengthens how long enemies stay in stagger) in order to build them up, then once staggered lay into them. As far as the Skeleton enemies, the 1st stagger just gives them Curse (easier to interrupt), while 2nd stagger makes them temporarily prone... but their stagger length seems to be fairly short, hence why it keeps happening over and over

And yeah, leveling abilities doesn't seem like much growth individually, but it does add up as your stats get higher (along with the ability multiplier). A 200 STR x0.5 Attack would only do 100 damage, but a 200 STR x3.0-max Attack would do 600 damage, and that's before any stat increases 'or' enemy stagger

As far as Chocobo(-and-Earth) Eaters, I generally use Evade for most of their attacks, except for things like Chef's Secret and 'I'm getting angry!'- it does requires timing, but it is another option to avoid damage. Also, I use Heavy Slash for Feeder abilities to steal their buffs, making things considerably easier in the long run :)
If I post about something, it's because I ultimately like it - flaws tend not to personally matter after initial acceptance, if still acknowledged in general.

User Info: xfyrenx

xfyrenx
3 months ago#13
One other reason to kill the Last Ones even if you don't want to clear the bonus dungeon (it's certainly doable in Normal NG) is to get their unique drops: very powerful accessories (that can be upgraded in NG+) and materials to upgrade abilities (that you only get from Last Ones on Easy and Normal, but are less rare once you start playing on Hard).

The biggest advantage of levelling abilities is the reduced ATB cost. It's not too big at first, but it adds up and you'll notice the difference pretty quickly.

Hotel_Security posted...
This is maybe the one part I'm iffy on...I get basic staggering but there's this stuff on stagger like the "stagger preservation" that I just didn't pay attention to. As far as I can tell it's "pour on multi-hit attacks, preferably the enemy's weakness, until it staggers, slap on debuffs, then use physical attacks." I get that it's not that simple but that seems to work. Though I had a few cases like the Omega Skeleton where I kept staggering him over and over and over and it seemed to have no effect so I know I was missing something there.

Ruin can help a lot when trying to maintain the stagger wave.
Don't worry; your manhood will be safe even if one of the PCs in the next game wears pink. Get over it. - EvenSpoonier

User Info: Hotel_Security

Hotel_Security
3 months ago#14
Did some testing last night while extincting all the enemies in the Forsaken Graveyard in Luxerion last night. Made sure to try out some "boss schemas" and used Artemis Arrows for the first time...I give it the accessory to start with 50% for ATB and I don't have many good hand accessories so I slapped on the one that puts auto-haste at the start of the battle which makes it so Soldier of Peace has max ATB before I'm done staggering. It was amazing against Zomoks as I could stagger them easy and Artemis would do like 80K to get the second stagger immediately and then could do around 100K with the second attack to kill it. Sped up the process greatly.

But I saw some limitations with the Gaunt and Dreadnaught who are either hard to stagger or don't lose their defense with their first stagger. I was still doing 25K a hit with each Arrows attack so this is probably still better than my standard "Attack Lvl 3" that I was doing before.

That is basically it, yeah; hit the enemy with a combination of attacks, some with stagger power (like magic) and others with staying power ie 'preservation' (like Attack or Element-strikes, which generally lengthens how long enemies stay in stagger) in order to build them up, then once staggered lay into them. As far as the Skeleton enemies, the 1st stagger just gives them Curse (easier to interrupt), while 2nd stagger makes them temporarily prone... but their stagger length seems to be fairly short, hence why it keeps happening over and over

Yeah, one thing I had to learn was how, for some enemies, you have to stagger them then stagger them again while they're staggered to get a "traditional stagger" where their defense drops. It seems really hit-or-miss on this. This appears to be the case for Dreadnaught where I could pretty easily get the first stagger with Blizzara spam but then it seemed random on getting the second stagger. Sometimes, he'd stagger and I'd fire off some more Blizzara spells and the stagger meter would already be red and it'd be easy to get that second stagger. Other times, I'd do the first stagger and it seemed the stagger meter would completely reset and it'd be impossible to build it back up before the Dreadnaught would recover. I could never figure what I had to do different.

As for attacking to maintain the stagger meter, I don't know if I'm doing it wrong. Gaunts are hard for me to stagger and I'd have to really pour on Thundara with two different schemas back and forth to eventually get a stagger. Eventually I figured I had to maintain the stagger meter better so I'd do four Thundaras in a row, then would switch to a physical schema and do a physical attack to supposedly maintain the stagger meter...but it'd still go back to a smaller "wave" after the physical attack which is the same it'd do if I didn't throw in the attack at all. So I'm not sure how physical attacks maintain the stagger...unless I have to do a whole combo or something? Or is this referring to after you already stagger them once?

User Info: Hotel_Security

Hotel_Security
3 months ago#15
And yeah, leveling abilities doesn't seem like much growth individually, but it does add up as your stats get higher (along with the ability multiplier).

Yeah, it may be too late considered I've extincted half the monster roster but I should start looking into enemy drops here...or just skip ahead to Day 10 before I start extincting stuff. The only drawback is this makes the enemies tougher and take longer to extinct...Chocobo Eaters have always given me issues so I wasn't too keen into making them even stronger.

As far as Chocobo(-and-Earth) Eaters, I generally use Evade for most of their attacks, except for things like Chef's Secret and 'I'm getting angry!'

I never even considered trying Evade. Guess I should look into it.

Also, I use Heavy Slash for Feeder abilities to steal their buffs, making things considerably easier in the long run :)

I've got accessories that allow this but I rarely use Heavy Slash though I will for some of the bosses that have buffs...does this work even if it's Artemis Arrows?

One other reason to kill the Last Ones even if you don't want to clear the bonus dungeon (it's certainly doable in Normal NG) is to get their unique drops: very powerful accessories (that can be upgraded in NG+)

Yeah, some of the accessories are really useful...heck it just happened last night where I took down Omega Zomok with some overclock antics and got a 90% wind protection accessory...which was exactly what I needed to survive Omega Gaunt's onslaught of nasty wind spells.

User Info: omegafire18

omegafire18
3 months ago#16
Well as far as the Dreadnought, it's second stagger has one obstacle to overcome. For instance, you stagger it once, and you destroyed it's left arm in the process; great. You launch Blizzara attacks from your traditional spot, and they all deal damage, but only one builds the stagger wave... because the other two were hitting it's remaining arm, which aren't connected to the stagger process. If you destroy it's other arm, then this problem goes away... 'or', if you use Evade (just pressing it causes you to dodge, but the left stick plus the button press moves you around the battlefield quicker than manually moving) to get to the left side of the Dreadnought - where you destroyed it's first arm - suddenly your Blizzara attacks all hit the main body, building the stagger wave (and might even destroy the remaining arm anyway).

Gaunts are a bit annoying to stagger, but it can be done. The easiest way is to wait for them to charge up Aerora (stagger wave builds extra-fast during this), but you can also wait for when it's not doing anything, hit it with a full round of Thundara to make it flinch, quickly hit it with four Sparkstrike attacks to keep it interrupted, then go in again with Thundara for stagger (this is best used on a single one btw). I've found that first approach very helpful with the Gaunt Omega: it immediately begins charging up Aeroga upon entering battle, yet I use Overclock to immediately slam it with several rounds of Thundara, and it staggers just before it runs out :P

The stagger bit is complicated - sorry if I haven't made it clear yet - but I believe it's best summed up as such. Physical attacks don't build the stagger wave up unless they're elemental, but they do help maintain it/keep it from decaying (pre-stagger), or extend the stagger duration (during-stagger), both up to a certain limit that's different per enemy.

Example:
Niblet 1 (base 6 second stagger duration) - you exclusively use Fira. Stagger wave builds fast and staggers it upon 3rd hit, and stagger duration lasts 6 seconds. You use another full round to kill it, but stagger duraction remained unchanged
Niblet 2 (same base stagger period) - you use one Fira, one Attack, then another two Fira. Stagger wave starts to lower after first Fira due to decay before Attack hits (keeps it in place for a little while), then builds again with the next Fira before the last Fira staggers the enemy. Stagger duration is still 6 seconds... however, a follow-up full round of Attack extends the stagger duration to 8-9 seconds max. Assuming it lived and you wait 5 seconds, another full round of Attack will extend the remaining 4 secs of stagger duration back to around 6-7, and you could repeat until stagger ends/you run out of ATB

^Not to say you 'have' to use physical attacks against every enemy pre-stagger. You can afford not to against some weaker enemies and still kill them just fine, such as in the above example, but against the stronger ones that take awhile to stagger or you frequently have to interrupt your attacks to guard, it's definitely recommended

Sadly no; Artemis Arrows and Feeder abilities don't mix, yet you don't have to use Heavy Slash after you've stolen the buffs. ATB-wise, you're still better off with your usual attacks for that
If I post about something, it's because I ultimately like it - flaws tend not to personally matter after initial acceptance, if still acknowledged in general.

User Info: Hotel_Security

Hotel_Security
3 months ago#17
You launch Blizzara attacks from your traditional spot, and they all deal damage, but only one builds the stagger wave... because the other two were hitting it's remaining arm

Oh shoot. Thanks for pointing that out. I was having issues on how to make Lightning attack or not attack the arms since it was often hard to move her to the side. I also tried out Evade on my physical schema and I love it. Makes it much nicer for avoiding those big damage attacks unscathed and I can basically just spam it during attacks and get pretty solid i-frames.

Gaunts weren't too hard to stagger for me as they'd go if I put Thundara on two of my schemas and just alternated. I just didn't see the physical attacks sustaining the wave as much but maybe I should have just skipped them.

Anyway, I figured I'd go for the best drops of whatever enemies I had left and skipped ahead to Day 10...got lots of Lvl3 spells and even some Lvl spells from the Omega versions so that helped. Once I unlocked the first highway, I found it was a great place for extincting the large beasts. Earth Eaters took me a long time to beat so I found I could overclock twice on them with Artemis Arrows to speed it up...the nice part of fighting on the highway was there were three other large spawns (cyclops, those Zomok reskins, and those hedgehog enemies) and all could be used to refill my EP gauge after wasting two overclocks on the Earth Eaters...so I could just avoid the Eaters if EP got low. I also tried to always beat the cyclops by perfect-guarding his overhead smash since I read that may increase chances of his weapon drop. I guess it worked as I eventually got one out of the 30 I killed. I also found out that having Mediguard on two schemas (rather than just one) is great for quickly healing any damage at the start of the fight without needing items. Almost all these big enemies start out slow and weak so you have time to refill.

Anyway, I extincted the rest of everything, finished up all the Canvas of Prayer missions and then spent the rest of the time running back and forth on the highway to collect Soul Seeds as the time slowly ran out. I had just enough to get the Elixir for the trophy.

Anyway, I was really hoping to take out Ereshkigal in NG (I should note I've been playing on Normal) since I'd already spent all this time extincting stuff to save time and didn't want to have to do that again on NG+. I made sure to take out Omega Neoketon and then had a clusterf*** of attempts on Ereshkigal. I looked up a guide and I changed up my layouts so I'd have Heavy Slash to steal his Brave and Faith buffs and had DeProtect, Slow and Poison, had Aerora on two schemas for staggering and had Soldier of Fortune ready for Artemis Arrow antics if he was staggered. I also came in with 4 X Potions, one Phoenix Wing, 4 or 5 Ethers, 1 Elixir and 1 Turbo Either.

First off, I found it was a mistake to not have DeShell since his Shell spell would protect him so well that it'd say "Guard" when I'd cast spells and I couldn't even stagger him with spells doing 1 damage. So, after the first attempt, I removed a Guard and replaced it with that. On the second attempt, I learned that SoP wasn't going to work since Artemis Arrow only works on the ground so I quit that fight to replace it. I'd seen xfyrenx and a few other mention Magic Slash here so I switched to Mi'jote to try out Magic Slash for staggering.

User Info: Hotel_Security

Hotel_Security
3 months ago#18
Even so, my attempts were a mess. There was just a lot going on and I'd often clean forget to redo buffs. At best, I'd try to make sure I kept Protect and Shell off him with debuffs and would steal any Faith and Bravery but I often clean forgot to use Slow and didn't use Poison much at all since I was often too busy with other stuff and it'd wear off super quick. Blocking seemed to do little on meteor so I'd try evading like crazy when he'd use it and a few times the camera would pan out and then no meteors would fall...I think it was because I had evaded out of the way (or often evaded under Ereshkigel himself) and maybe that helped. He had another AoE attack (Trine I think?) that killed me every time that I never figured out how to dodge so I'd have to use my one Phoenix Wing or use the EP Revive every time he used it.

One great tactic I read was to do a normal attack then switch schemas and do an Aerora and then switch back and do an attack and alternate...this could keep me in the air to avoid his ground attacks and also was pretty good at keeping up that stagger wave. I'd read you need four staggers but I must have missed my chances after the earlier ones since I swear I had six staggers with no effect to him...after that point, I started to ignore all debuffs and defense and just focus on pouring on the Aerora...I'd just switch between the one schema with attack and the two with Aerora to pour it on, then do three Aeroras in a row from the ground to hopefully finish it off.

I'd read that you should start overclock once I started seeing yellow numbers from physical attacks so, once I saw them, I quickly added DeProtect and DeShell and started overclocking with Magic Slash spam. It was doing maybe 10K per hit and after about two ethers and 10 overclocks of this, I realized this wasn't going to cut it and that I'd jumped the gun and maybe blew my chance. As it turns out, the overclocks still helped since Eresh was a few more Aeroras away from being staggered again and this time I was doing real damage with 30K per hit and about 130K per finisher. I overclocked like crazy from here and used up every single remaining item I had to keep that overclock going but eventually I got the bastard. The fight was a mess that got me zero stars with a lot of damage taken (but much damage avoided via evading meteors and aerial antics with Aerora) but it worked out.

So I have no EP-filling items left for Aeronite but I guess that's another goal for NG+. I even ran around on the highway to get more soul seeds afterward to waste the rest of the day since I figured I could use those seeds in NG+ to get eventually get another elixir and turbo ether. I also didn't realize I could have gone back into the Ultimate Lair and grabbed the items that were on those last two floors but, by the time I realized this, I didn't have enough time in the day left to go there. Oh well.

All that's left now is to do the final day, extinct everyone there, and beat the game. Either way, I'm glad the Lair is done with already...no need to worry about that later. I'm also going to try for the alternate boss versions. I need the Day 1-5 version of the Dead Dunes boss and I need Noel+ and Snow+. It kinda of sucks you need to play a third time to get the third Snow version so I'm not sure if I'll bother with that. Either way, it'll be back to more questing to raise stats.

User Info: omegafire18

omegafire18
3 months ago#19
Well, sorry to hear you had so much trouble, but at least you got him. And yeah, debuffing him is a bit of a pain, since you have to use each one twice before they actually stick - it's typically why the easiest way is to focus on Poison, with your other abilities focused on staggering and guarding, plus a few other debuffs like Slow and Defaith (the only one it's completely immune to is Dispel). It doesn't help that even when staggered, damage from magic just doesn't seem to do much, particularly on a first playthrough

Still, I'm pretty sure that even if you had EP-filling items left, you still would've had trouble with Aeronite simply because the Day was #13, ie the strongest non-Final Day for enemies' stats. But on the bright side, you can handle him on NG+'s Day 7, when he's at his 'weakest' and with a powered-up you (assuming you don't immediately go to Hard Mode)

Also, an important side-note: when you get to the Final Day dungeon, you can farm enemies in that first area until only the infinite axe-wielding type is left, but the Last Ones won't show there (because others remain deeper inside). Also, one of the remaining enemies - the beastly Large one - will almost solely spawn inside a single room deeper inside, where you face one as a miniboss of sorts... it's a fairly tough one, but there's only 15 to go around instead of 30, which will help
If I post about something, it's because I ultimately like it - flaws tend not to personally matter after initial acceptance, if still acknowledged in general.

User Info: Hotel_Security

Hotel_Security
2 months ago#20
Well, sorry to hear you had so much trouble, but at least you got him.

Don't be. I'm just glad I got him on NG.

it's typically why the easiest way is to focus on Poison, with your other abilities focused on staggering and guarding, plus a few other debuffs like Slow and Defaith

I kinda felt this would have been too slow since I think prolonging the fight would have gone bad for me since I was pretty poor at dodging many of his attacks. Especially since, by the time you can put poison on him, I think he only needs one more stagger to do some high damage. I was focusing on getting those last few staggers at that time to worry about poison.

To be fair, I didn't really have a "defensive schema" set up for the fight and was too lazy to set one up...otherwise I may have been able to just camp out and apply poison. I would have done so had I needed more tries but it worked out. I'll likely do a defensive setup for Aeronite, though.

Still, I'm pretty sure that even if you had EP-filling items left, you still would've had trouble with Aeronite simply because the Day was #13, ie the strongest non-Final Day for enemies' stats.

I read somewhere that his stats don't go up based on the day. Was this wrong? The wiki only has one set of stats for him so I assumed this was true.

Also, an important side-note: when you get to the Final Day dungeon, you can farm enemies in that first area until only the infinite axe-wielding type is left, but the Last Ones won't show there (because others remain deeper inside). Also, one of the remaining enemies - the beastly Large one - will almost solely spawn inside a single room deeper inside, where you face one as a miniboss of sorts... it's a fairly tough one

Yeah, I read up on a guide to get this info so thanks for that. The chimera wasn't that tough once I got the Ultima Weapon and I was able to use an overclock in each fight to Artemis Arrow him to death. I had more trouble with those angelic Gaunt reskin enemies since their magic spam spell could kill me instantly if done at the wrong time...I learned I could just bum-rush them with attacks and kill them before they did it so I used that method for killing them.

The final boss gave me trouble in his last form when you have to stagger him as I just couldn't do with conventional magic spam and I'd have to stop and block attacks too often to sustain it and had wasted all my overclocks on the previous forms since I assumed those were the "last forms." I restarted and saved my overclocks and used one at the start of the last form during his Fallen One attack and just spammed magic during it. Was just enough to get the stagger and then he was done.

The ending was just one long eye-roll between the anime-inspired "lets work together" and "you can't stop the human spirit" speeches before they smash the final boss (The Japanese sure love killing Gods) and the fact that basically every tragic moment in the series was magically undone as everyone seemed to reunite with everyone else at the end. Kinda kills the sense of tragedy in the first two games when they just retcon it all away in the end. I'm all for happy endings but this was a bit much. About the only part I liked was Lumina turning out to be a young Lightning rather than a young Serah like we all thought but it's too little too late.

Either way, I'm in NG+ but I kept it on normal. Part of me wanted to just put it on Easy so I could smash Aeronite and be done with it but I still need to collect 30 more accessories so I may as well just play it normally.

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