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  3. The nature of souls in FFXIV (Shadowbringers and potential Stormblood Spoilers)

User Info: SilentZed

SilentZed
1 month ago#1
So, this is a speculation topic given that we have a pretty good idea that the Warrior of Light is a former Amaurot member, potential Convocation member that's left.

But what exactly is going on with souls in FFXIV? The Fae in Il Mheg are described as souls of children that became Fae through a variety of circumstances, like the Fauth who are children who died of drowning.

People kept saying we are the reincarnation of this Amaurot member, but something about that didn't sit well with me, if only because it brought up questions about what exactly happens to souls when they die.

It's probably one of those things that: 1)We don't know everything yet and 2)Try not to think about it too hard, it's just a game. Though they've at least tried to set rules up for their universe and abiding by the rules.

Clearly, we know there's allegedly a way to permanently destroy a soul, i.e. white auracite + massive concentrated burst of aether. But what happens to that aether? Does it simply dissipate? Does it reconstitue? What makes a soul?

The Dotharl believe that when a warrior dies in battle their soul goes into the next to be born to the tribe, and judging on the nature of who the WoL is, it might not be as much "madness" as Gotetsu was balking at.

So, that said, this brings up some potentially troubling questions.

1. Are all souls just fragments of the original Amaurot, being cycled over and over again?

2. Is it possible for aether to form a new soul? One would assume yes, but considering that at least some souls can be allegedly reborn, does this mean any new souls are formed from ambient aether when some sentient life is born?

3. If new souls are not created but, instead, are inherited, does this mean there's a finite amount of life created from the fragments?

4. Unless a soul is destroyed, will it be reborn over and over again? And what exactly happens to the soul when it's destroyed? Clearly, Emet is under the impression that he can get everyone back. Given his knowledge of things, we don't know if this is true or not, but he certainly believes it. So, does this mean even if a soul's aether is consumed in sacrifice (like in the creation ability of the Amaurot) or otherwise, that's it's possible to reclaim that aether/soul?

5. With every single rejoining, ala The One, doesn't this mean collectively everyone is getting stronger each time this happens?

6. I am beginning to think that Zenos, with his borrowed Echo and Rift traipsing, knows a little bit more about himself than before he died. I am speculating that because Zenos keeps referring to the WoL as his "friend" over and over again and with such emphasis that it might be more than just, "Oh, this is the person who beat me. The one thing I have been looking for." vs. Zenos may also be a reincarnation of someone the former soul that now comprises the WoL may know and Zenos knows it now, too.

7. Clearly souls can travel, just like the Ascians in the Rift, and how the Scions managed to get summoned to The First. This gives us a few clues about the nature of the soul itself. Namely that the WoL does NOT have creation magick, or doesn't anymore, despite being close to being fully powered. But, Thancred also laments that, just like back in the Source, he doesn't have access to magick either, meaning that it's not necessarily a product of the body, but a property of the Soul.

This paired with the fact that Elidibus was able to force Zenos' body to employ magick during the end scenario for Stormblood also shows that the body isn't what stops someone from using magick necessarily. So this is point two to say that it's not an ability of the body. It's not "genetic" as it were.
Currently playing - LoZ:BotW (Switch), FFXIV:SB (PC), RE4 (Switch), Crypt of the Necrodancer (Switch), Bloodborne, Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night (PC)

User Info: strred

strred
1 month ago#2
erm, wow. i didn't even think about that last thing involving elidibus. talk about trashing garlean lore.
can't flim flam the glim glam

User Info: MMX377

MMX377
1 month ago#3
You read Natsuko Ishikawa's mind, eh? When I read this, it made me confused, but Ishikawa is a genius.
"Get up!! Show me your true power!" Ryu's victory quote in SF3

User Info: SilentZed

SilentZed
1 month ago#4
8. During one of the Aether Current quests in Amaurot, it's remarked that the WoL's soul does NOT have any creation ability, though he said that shouldn't be possible. Regardless, he hand waves it away and says that they do have ways to augment a person with limited capability, meaning that it's clear that some Amaurot members just didn't have the same abilities as others.

These may be the "Garleans", but why these properties would be tied to a people so conclusively is still up for debate and for the story to reveal if they ever do.

9. Despite the fact it was a utopia allegedly, and that they tried to control disparity, the fact that not all Amaurot members had equal ability means that disparity was inevitable. Disparity lead to doubt, doubt lead to fear, fear lead to the downfall of everything when fears gained momentum and caused a self-reinforcing wave of chaos with each new incident breeding more fear which caused even greater incidents.

Either way, is entirely possible that even if the Ascians' succeed, it may just begin the cycle all over again. This may be a reality and logical point that the Amaurot people who were NOT in support of Zodiark understood and their belief and desire to change things are what lead to Hydaelen's creation. Especially considering they knew there was no way reason with the Tempered.

10. Considering the nature of souls, we have to wonder what exactly Tempering is. While the Ascians are Zodiark's tempered, they've done other things to transcend their own mortal bodies, but still remain tempered. Does this mean tempering is a condition which affects the soul? Because the Ascians' condition denotes this is a possibility.

Anyways, tons of speculation and a lot of stuff I may have gotten wrong. If you took the time to read any of this, I appreciate it and also appreciate any discussion that rises from these points if they aren't picked apart lore-wise as being not possible.
Currently playing - LoZ:BotW (Switch), FFXIV:SB (PC), RE4 (Switch), Crypt of the Necrodancer (Switch), Bloodborne, Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night (PC)

User Info: MMX377

MMX377
1 month ago#5
What about Zeno's enhanced echo Elidibus sensed? Elidibus didn't expect that when Zeno has possessed it since the scientists experimented Fordola with the echo.
"Get up!! Show me your true power!" Ryu's victory quote in SF3

User Info: SilentZed

SilentZed
1 month ago#6
Well, with Zenos at least, Elidibus remarks that it must have been his borrowed Echo power that allowed him to possess another body and then get back to his when Elidibus fled it.

This brings up some interesting points, especially given the nature of how powerful Zenos' borrowed Echo is.

1. That it was powerful enough to control a Primal comprised of all of the raging souls/aether that formed Shinryuu, so he had the ability to not just detect the movement of aether, but to outright control it on a very powerful level.

2. That, according to Elidibus, this is what allowed him to come back and that his borrowed Echo allowed him to "touch immortality". This means that it must be some similar control of Soul to what the Ascians employ. It's speculative, but I believe this means that Zenos is now in full control of his own Soul, not just capable of body hopping like the Ascians, but able to not be bound to the whims/rules of the cycle allegedly (although this last portion isn't explained in the slightest yet as of the how, just that it had something to do with his borrowed Echo).

3. That we only know of two Resonant. Fordola, and Zenos, and it's arguable Fordola was the first, a test subject for the process later used on Zenos, but that Zenos was likely much, much more infused given the number of bodies we see in the chamber we rescue Krile from.

4. That it's a question of exactly "what" Zenos is now. Is he some form of weird Amalgam of souls? Is he just infused with soul aether? How does this affect him? He seems a little more crazed/singularly focused, but this could just be because he was beaten for the first time and is obsessing over it.
Currently playing - LoZ:BotW (Switch), FFXIV:SB (PC), RE4 (Switch), Crypt of the Necrodancer (Switch), Bloodborne, Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night (PC)

User Info: kblaze13

kblaze13
1 month ago#7
SilentZed posted...
But what exactly is going on with souls in FFXIV? The Fae in Il Mheg are described as souls of children that became Fae through a variety of circumstances, like the Fauth who are children who died of drowning

That was stated to be a "legend" not fact, there may be SOME truth to it but you can't take it as presented as exactly what it is.
Iightningz posted...
I hate Lightning.

User Info: SilentZed

SilentZed
1 month ago#8
kblaze13 posted...
SilentZed posted...
But what exactly is going on with souls in FFXIV? The Fae in Il Mheg are described as souls of children that became Fae through a variety of circumstances, like the Fauth who are children who died of drowning

That was stated to be a "legend" not fact, there may be SOME truth to it but you can't take it as presented as exactly what it is.

Right. It was more a chip in the pile of logic points. It's stated as legend, but considering all of the other soul shenanigans going on in Shadowbringers.

The Dotharl belief is just that, as well, a belief, myth, etc. But considering that we know at least 1 Soul that's been floating around since pretty much the beginning of everything and is starting to become whole (The WoL) that there may be some truth or correlative facts that have amassed to exactly what souls are.
Currently playing - LoZ:BotW (Switch), FFXIV:SB (PC), RE4 (Switch), Crypt of the Necrodancer (Switch), Bloodborne, Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night (PC)

User Info: Zaschie

Zaschie
1 month ago#9
A person's aether has been stated to dissolve or dissipate into the Lifestream upon death. This is the big thing about Flow. And not being able to resurrect the dead as the people they used to be, since their soul/aether is gone. Hm
Beep . . . boop.

User Info: Reinney

Reinney
1 month ago#10
Unlikely all people are fragments of Amaurotines being reincarnated over and over again. That would put a cap on the population and there's never even been a hint of such a thing. Also Ascians want to bring back all the people of Amaurot, and they going to feed people to Zodiark to bring back the Amaurotines who scraficed themselves to create Zodiark. These two things do not line up unless there's new, not-Amaurotine souls around.
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  2. Final Fantasy XIV Online: A Realm Reborn
  3. The nature of souls in FFXIV (Shadowbringers and potential Stormblood Spoilers)
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