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  3. Avatar!Lucina <-> Validar dialogue in Chapter 23

User Info: falchion1984

falchion1984
5 months ago#1
Recently, I explored the question of what sort of dialogue Validar would have with Morgan, especially if Morgan was Lucina!Morgan, Chrom!Morgan, or otherwise of Exalted Blood. Owing to the Robcina fic ‘Cold Tea’, one possibility is Validar being in a spitting rage over Robin canoodling with the enemy. On the board, posited reactions includedValidar giving ominous predictions about what it’ll be like having Exalted and Fell blood in one body, with Morgan being either obliviously or defiantly snarky.

This got me thinking, what if we take this scenario and have F!Robin be Lucina’s mother? Validar might have more interesting things to say to his “granddaughter” under such circumstances. Maybe the expected vitriol about her mingled blood, or maybe some sinister predictions about just what sort of life a child of Exalted and Fell blood can expect. Lucina is not the indefatigable optimist that either Morgan is, and she already knows her birth mother became Grima, so Validar could get under her skin that way.

So, I put it to you guys. If you were to write up an alternate dialogue for Lucina and Validar for use when Lucina’s mother is F!Robin, who would say what? On a related note, if you want to write possible dialogues for Morgan and/or Exalted!Morgan, here’s the link:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/643003-fire-emblem-awakening/77448918

To those who participate, thanks in advance.
"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his." --George S. Patton

User Info: Timid_Taguel

Timid_Taguel
5 months ago#2
falchion1984 posted...
Recently, I explored the question of what sort of dialogue Validar would have with Morgan, especially if Morgan was Lucina!Morgan, Chrom!Morgan, or otherwise of Exalted Blood. Owing to the Robcina fic ‘Cold Tea’, one possibility is Validar being in a spitting rage over Robin canoodling with the enemy. On the board, posited reactions includedValidar giving ominous predictions about what it’ll be like having Exalted and Fell blood in one body, with Morgan being either obliviously or defiantly snarky.

This got me thinking, what if we take this scenario and have F!Robin be Lucina’s mother? Validar might have more interesting things to say to his “granddaughter” under such circumstances. Maybe the expected vitriol about her mingled blood, or maybe some sinister predictions about just what sort of life a child of Exalted and Fell blood can expect. Lucina is not the indefatigable optimist that either Morgan is, and she already knows her birth mother became Grima, so Validar could get under her skin that way.

So, I put it to you guys. If you were to write up an alternate dialogue for Lucina and Validar for use when Lucina’s mother is F!Robin, who would say what? On a related note, if you want to write possible dialogues for Morgan and/or Exalted!Morgan, here’s the link:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/643003-fire-emblem-awakening/77448918

To those who participate, thanks in advance.

This could take the Chrom!Morgan approach I posted in an earlier thread, but I think it'd be more than that. It would likely be Validar taunting Lucina, claiming that nobody loves her, that the people she has travelled backward in time to save are her enemy and that her fate is sealed. Note: Due to the Major/Minor Blood theory, I think it would be cool for MU!Lucina to have the Mark of Grima somewhere on her body, due to inheriting Major Grimleal Blood from MU. I think it would be cool to have it in her other eye, but opinions may differ.

Validar: Oh, I sense an ominous presence emerging from the Warrior Princess. Could there not only be one Brand in her eye, but two as well?
Lucina: Validar, the bearer of all destruction. I am finally able to oppose you face to face!
Validar: Such confident words for our troubled little princess. Are those tears I see dribbling down your quivering chin?
Lucina: *Exhales* I will not falter again! Even with these shaky hands, I will destroy you!
Validar: I wouldn't be too certain about that. Beneath that mask, you could hide everything from sight. Now that it has been cleaved from your face, every little thing shows. You are scared, Princess. Frightened and scarred, never knowing what is right and what is wrong.
Lucina: You know nothing about my past, about my family and my friends! The ones I hold dear...
Validar: ...Will be the death of you. Fate is fate, Princess. You cannot save a future if its past is already in shambles.
Lucina: N-no...I can fix this. I can save the future, my fallen family and comrades who have dissipated into the dust. I can save their world!
Validar: And how? Already forgetting how the Tactician nearly devoured you whole in this bleak future, the one you call Mother?
Lucina: Nonsense! How dare you pin the blame on an innocent woman, she who has no control over her actions once you take the helm?
Validar: *Sinister laughter* Still defending the one who will bring the world to an end? I don't know if you're brave or stupid, Princess!
Lucina: That is high talk coming from the puppeteer! Let us put our words into combat and see who emerges victorious! I challenge my fate!

Note: "I will not falter again" is a line spoken by Chrom in his speech after the death of Emmeryn. I also think critical lines are neat to add here too. They are unique to each character and have a larger impact on the dialogue overall.
"What should I put here? Guess I'll just have to ask the voices in my head..."
(edited 5 months ago)

User Info: falchion1984

falchion1984
5 months ago#3
Timid_Taguel posted...

This could take the Chrom!Morgan approach I posted in an earlier thread, but I think it'd be more than that. It would likely be Validar taunting Lucina, claiming that nobody loves her, that the people she has travelled backward in time to save are her enemy and that her fate is sealed. Note: Due to the Major/Minor Blood theory, I think it would be cool for MU!Lucina to have the Mark of Grima somewhere on her body, due to inheriting Major Grimleal Blood from MU. I think it would be cool to have it in her other eye, but opinions may differ.

Validar: Oh, I sense an ominous presence emerging from the Warrior Princess. Could there not only be one Brand in her eye, but two as well?
Lucina: Validar, the bearer of all destruction. I am finally able to oppose you face to face!
Validar: Such confident words for our troubled little princess. Are those tears I see dribbling down your quivering chin?
Lucina: *Exhales* I will not falter again! Even with these shaky hands, I will destroy you!
Validar: I wouldn't be too certain about that. Beneath that mask, you could hide everything from sight. Now that it has been cleaved from your face, every little thing shows. You are scared, Princess. Frightened and scarred, never knowing what is right and what is wrong.
Lucina: You know nothing about my past, about my family and my friends! The ones I hold dear...
Validar: ...Will be the death of you. Fate is fate, Princess. You cannot save a future if its past is already in shambles.
Lucina: N-no...I can fix this. I can save the future, my fallen family and comrades who have dissipated into the dust. I can save their world!
Validar: And how? Already forgetting how the Tactician nearly devoured you whole in this bleak future, the one you call Mother?
Lucina: Nonsense! How dare you pin the blame on an innocent woman, she who has no control over her actions once you take the helm?
Validar: *Sinister laughter* Still defending the one who will bring the world to an end? I don't know if you're brave or stupid, Princess!
Lucina: That is high talk coming from the puppeteer! Let us put our words into combat and see who emerges victorious! I challenge my fate!

Note: "I will not falter again" is a line spoken by Chrom in his speech after the death of Emmeryn. I also think critical lines are neat to add here too. They are unique to each character and have a larger impact on the dialogue overall.


Outstanding! Fits what I had in mind like a glove. As to the question of the two brands would, I saw an interesting concept, though I can’t remember where. It looked like the Brand of the Exalt with Grima’s eyes along its outer curvature. I’m more Robcina than Chrobin, though I remember at least one fic where Lucina’s Fell Brand is on her ankle. Anyhow, thanks so much for your contribution, and I hope you enjoy that fic I linked you to.
"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his." --George S. Patton

User Info: Ikorus13

Ikorus13
5 months ago#4
Given Lucina has the Brand of the Exalt, I find it unlikely she would have Major Grima Holy Blood.

Assuming the Jugdralian Crusader Theorem holds, in order to have two Major Bloods, her delineating parent (Chrom) would need a Major Blood (Naga, check) as well as a Minor Blood that matches a Minor - or, possibly but I can't say for a certainty, Major - blood possed by the non-delineating parent (Robin, Grima, hard no).

Therefore, at most she would have Minor Grima, be unable to weild Grima's Holy Weapon (presumably the Tome, Grima's Truth), and lack the Fell Brand.

Potentially denoting an exception, the other Holy Weapons are acessible in-game, and usable by anyone with a class capable of achieving the requisite Weapon Levels with no regard for Holy Blood. I posit that as their relativistic potency has somewhat waned, and their related gods faded from active agency in the world, so too might their restrictions have been reduced.

Now, on to the discussion of Validar as regarding Robin!Lucina. I've outlined in the previous threads that under any sort of analysis, Validar's behaviour follows predictable, archetypal tropes and patterns. I see no need to retread old ground.

However, unlike Morgan, who at least potentially inherits Major Grima blood from his delineating parent, Lucina VERY DEFINITELY carries Major Naga - and Naga's Holy Weapon. With this, her chronic interference, and her clear defining characteristic of desperate, bloody-minded determination in the face of impossible odds, she is the very emblem of his grand schemes burning down around him. A Fire Emblem, if you will.

He can attempt to play on her emotional nature to unbalance her, and most likely would succeed, but she won't be manipulated, can't be controlled, and will never ever stop fighting. She's useless insofar as the Grima Ressurection Program. Worse than useless. She poses a very realistic threat in both the physical and the symbolic sense of the subject, and will destroy everything he worked for if he doesn't destroy her first.

Outrage and panic are apparent. His smug facade can no longer hold in the face of this walking nightmare of a woman.
FGO User ID: 055,832,829
Friendly Neighborhood Asterios Advocate

User Info: falchion1984

falchion1984
5 months ago#5
Ikorus13 posted...
Given Lucina has the Brand of the Exalt, I find it unlikely she would have Major Grima Holy Blood.

Assuming the Jugdralian Crusader Theorem holds, in order to have two Major Bloods, her delineating parent (Chrom) would need a Major Blood (Naga, check) as well as a Minor Blood that matches a Minor - or, possibly but I can't say for a certainty, Major - blood possed by the non-delineating parent (Robin, Grima, hard no).

Therefore, at most she would have Minor Grima, be unable to weild Grima's Holy Weapon (presumably the Tome, Grima's Truth), and lack the Fell Brand.

Potentially denoting an exception, the other Holy Weapons are acessible in-game, and usable by anyone with a class capable of achieving the requisite Weapon Levels with no regard for Holy Blood. I posit that as their relativistic potency has somewhat waned, and their related gods faded from active agency in the world, so too might their restrictions have been reduced.

Now, on to the discussion of Validar as regarding Robin!Lucina. I've outlined in the previous threads that under any sort of analysis, Validar's behaviour follows predictable, archetypal tropes and patterns. I see no need to retread old ground.

However, unlike Morgan, who at least potentially inherits Major Grima blood from his delineating parent, Lucina VERY DEFINITELY carries Major Naga - and Naga's Holy Weapon. With this, her chronic interference, and her clear defining characteristic of desperate, bloody-minded determination in the face of impossible odds, she is the very emblem of his grand schemes burning down around him. A Fire Emblem, if you will.

He can attempt to play on her emotional nature to unbalance her, and most likely would succeed, but she won't be manipulated, can't be controlled, and will never ever stop fighting. She's useless insofar as the Grima Ressurection Program. Worse than useless. She poses a very realistic threat in both the physical and the symbolic sense of the subject, and will destroy everything he worked for if he doesn't destroy her first.

Outrage and panic are apparent. His smug facade can no longer hold in the face of this walking nightmare of a woman.


A Fire Emblem, very clever wordplay. Very insightful analysis, and thanks for the food for thought. So, do you want to take a whack at writing out the dialogue, or do think Timid_Taguel has the likely wording covered? Please let me know either way, and thanks again.
"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his." --George S. Patton

User Info: Ikorus13

Ikorus13
5 months ago#6
falchion1984 posted...
Ikorus13 posted...
Given Lucina has the Brand of the Exalt, I find it unlikely she would have Major Grima Holy Blood.

Assuming the Jugdralian Crusader Theorem holds, in order to have two Major Bloods, her delineating parent (Chrom) would need a Major Blood (Naga, check) as well as a Minor Blood that matches a Minor - or, possibly but I can't say for a certainty, Major - blood possed by the non-delineating parent (Robin, Grima, hard no).

Therefore, at most she would have Minor Grima, be unable to weild Grima's Holy Weapon (presumably the Tome, Grima's Truth), and lack the Fell Brand.

Potentially denoting an exception, the other Holy Weapons are acessible in-game, and usable by anyone with a class capable of achieving the requisite Weapon Levels with no regard for Holy Blood. I posit that as their relativistic potency has somewhat waned, and their related gods faded from active agency in the world, so too might their restrictions have been reduced.

Now, on to the discussion of Validar as regarding Robin!Lucina. I've outlined in the previous threads that under any sort of analysis, Validar's behaviour follows predictable, archetypal tropes and patterns. I see no need to retread old ground.

However, unlike Morgan, who at least potentially inherits Major Grima blood from his delineating parent, Lucina VERY DEFINITELY carries Major Naga - and Naga's Holy Weapon. With this, her chronic interference, and her clear defining characteristic of desperate, bloody-minded determination in the face of impossible odds, she is the very emblem of his grand schemes burning down around him. A Fire Emblem, if you will.

He can attempt to play on her emotional nature to unbalance her, and most likely would succeed, but she won't be manipulated, can't be controlled, and will never ever stop fighting. She's useless insofar as the Grima Ressurection Program. Worse than useless. She poses a very realistic threat in both the physical and the symbolic sense of the subject, and will destroy everything he worked for if he doesn't destroy her first.

Outrage and panic are apparent. His smug facade can no longer hold in the face of this walking nightmare of a woman.


A Fire Emblem, very clever wordplay. Very insightful analysis, and thanks for the food for thought. So, do you want to take a whack at writing out the dialogue, or do think Timid_Taguel has the likely wording covered? Please let me know either way, and thanks again.


I'd rather leave it to TT. My strengths lie more in analyses and worldbuilding than conversation. Which is a problem, since I've been working on an original fiction with a basis in linguistics and logical metaphysics. Things like "Human" and "Elf" have rather different meaning than the norm, and characters largely exist as a vehicle to explore the underlying definitions and reinterpretations of expected tropes. But talking is like, hard. =|
FGO User ID: 055,832,829
Friendly Neighborhood Asterios Advocate

User Info: falchion1984

falchion1984
5 months ago#7
Ikorus13 posted...
falchion1984 posted...
Ikorus13 posted...
Given Lucina has the Brand of the Exalt, I find it unlikely she would have Major Grima Holy Blood.

Assuming the Jugdralian Crusader Theorem holds, in order to have two Major Bloods, her delineating parent (Chrom) would need a Major Blood (Naga, check) as well as a Minor Blood that matches a Minor - or, possibly but I can't say for a certainty, Major - blood possed by the non-delineating parent (Robin, Grima, hard no).

Therefore, at most she would have Minor Grima, be unable to weild Grima's Holy Weapon (presumably the Tome, Grima's Truth), and lack the Fell Brand.

Potentially denoting an exception, the other Holy Weapons are acessible in-game, and usable by anyone with a class capable of achieving the requisite Weapon Levels with no regard for Holy Blood. I posit that as their relativistic potency has somewhat waned, and their related gods faded from active agency in the world, so too might their restrictions have been reduced.

Now, on to the discussion of Validar as regarding Robin!Lucina. I've outlined in the previous threads that under any sort of analysis, Validar's behaviour follows predictable, archetypal tropes and patterns. I see no need to retread old ground.

However, unlike Morgan, who at least potentially inherits Major Grima blood from his delineating parent, Lucina VERY DEFINITELY carries Major Naga - and Naga's Holy Weapon. With this, her chronic interference, and her clear defining characteristic of desperate, bloody-minded determination in the face of impossible odds, she is the very emblem of his grand schemes burning down around him. A Fire Emblem, if you will.

He can attempt to play on her emotional nature to unbalance her, and most likely would succeed, but she won't be manipulated, can't be controlled, and will never ever stop fighting. She's useless insofar as the Grima Ressurection Program. Worse than useless. She poses a very realistic threat in both the physical and the symbolic sense of the subject, and will destroy everything he worked for if he doesn't destroy her first.

Outrage and panic are apparent. His smug facade can no longer hold in the face of this walking nightmare of a woman.


A Fire Emblem, very clever wordplay. Very insightful analysis, and thanks for the food for thought. So, do you want to take a whack at writing out the dialogue, or do think Timid_Taguel has the likely wording covered? Please let me know either way, and thanks again.


I'd rather leave it to TT. My strengths lie more in analyses and worldbuilding than conversation. Which is a problem, since I've been working on an original fiction with a basis in linguistics and logical metaphysics. Things like "Human" and "Elf" have rather different meaning than the norm, and characters largely exist as a vehicle to explore the underlying definitions and reinterpretations of expected tropes. But talking is like, hard. =|


That DOES sound like an interesting project. I hope it goes well, and please let me know if you’d like me to take a look.
"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his." --George S. Patton

User Info: Ikorus13

Ikorus13
5 months ago#8
falchion1984 posted...
Ikorus13 posted...
falchion1984 posted...
Ikorus13 posted...
Given Lucina has the Brand of the Exalt, I find it unlikely she would have Major Grima Holy Blood.

Assuming the Jugdralian Crusader Theorem holds, in order to have two Major Bloods, her delineating parent (Chrom) would need a Major Blood (Naga, check) as well as a Minor Blood that matches a Minor - or, possibly but I can't say for a certainty, Major - blood possed by the non-delineating parent (Robin, Grima, hard no).

Therefore, at most she would have Minor Grima, be unable to weild Grima's Holy Weapon (presumably the Tome, Grima's Truth), and lack the Fell Brand.

Potentially denoting an exception, the other Holy Weapons are acessible in-game, and usable by anyone with a class capable of achieving the requisite Weapon Levels with no regard for Holy Blood. I posit that as their relativistic potency has somewhat waned, and their related gods faded from active agency in the world, so too might their restrictions have been reduced.

Now, on to the discussion of Validar as regarding Robin!Lucina. I've outlined in the previous threads that under any sort of analysis, Validar's behaviour follows predictable, archetypal tropes and patterns. I see no need to retread old ground.

However, unlike Morgan, who at least potentially inherits Major Grima blood from his delineating parent, Lucina VERY DEFINITELY carries Major Naga - and Naga's Holy Weapon. With this, her chronic interference, and her clear defining characteristic of desperate, bloody-minded determination in the face of impossible odds, she is the very emblem of his grand schemes burning down around him. A Fire Emblem, if you will.

He can attempt to play on her emotional nature to unbalance her, and most likely would succeed, but she won't be manipulated, can't be controlled, and will never ever stop fighting. She's useless insofar as the Grima Ressurection Program. Worse than useless. She poses a very realistic threat in both the physical and the symbolic sense of the subject, and will destroy everything he worked for if he doesn't destroy her first.

Outrage and panic are apparent. His smug facade can no longer hold in the face of this walking nightmare of a woman.


A Fire Emblem, very clever wordplay. Very insightful analysis, and thanks for the food for thought. So, do you want to take a whack at writing out the dialogue, or do think Timid_Taguel has the likely wording covered? Please let me know either way, and thanks again.


I'd rather leave it to TT. My strengths lie more in analyses and worldbuilding than conversation. Which is a problem, since I've been working on an original fiction with a basis in linguistics and logical metaphysics. Things like "Human" and "Elf" have rather different meaning than the norm, and characters largely exist as a vehicle to explore the underlying definitions and reinterpretations of expected tropes. But talking is like, hard. =|


That DOES sound like an interesting project. I hope it goes well, and please let me know if you’d like me to take a look.


Ah, I'm afraid I need to keep the details primarily confidential, so that if it ever gets to a submissible state its existence is provably, entirely "mine".

But because I'm an insufferable showoff and can't help myself, I'll at least give you this much:

"Human" as a species descriptor is actually used as an ASCRIPTIVE term, a label placed on them by other species, by virtue of lineage from the ancient kingdom of Hoom, where "Hoom's Men" was eventually corrupted to "Hoommen" and then "Human" over centuries.
FGO User ID: 055,832,829
Friendly Neighborhood Asterios Advocate

User Info: Timid_Taguel

Timid_Taguel
5 months ago#9
Ikorus13 posted...
falchion1984 posted...
Ikorus13 posted...
Given Lucina has the Brand of the Exalt, I find it unlikely she would have Major Grima Holy Blood.

Assuming the Jugdralian Crusader Theorem holds, in order to have two Major Bloods, her delineating parent (Chrom) would need a Major Blood (Naga, check) as well as a Minor Blood that matches a Minor - or, possibly but I can't say for a certainty, Major - blood possed by the non-delineating parent (Robin, Grima, hard no).

Therefore, at most she would have Minor Grima, be unable to weild Grima's Holy Weapon (presumably the Tome, Grima's Truth), and lack the Fell Brand.

Potentially denoting an exception, the other Holy Weapons are acessible in-game, and usable by anyone with a class capable of achieving the requisite Weapon Levels with no regard for Holy Blood. I posit that as their relativistic potency has somewhat waned, and their related gods faded from active agency in the world, so too might their restrictions have been reduced.

Now, on to the discussion of Validar as regarding Robin!Lucina. I've outlined in the previous threads that under any sort of analysis, Validar's behaviour follows predictable, archetypal tropes and patterns. I see no need to retread old ground.

However, unlike Morgan, who at least potentially inherits Major Grima blood from his delineating parent, Lucina VERY DEFINITELY carries Major Naga - and Naga's Holy Weapon. With this, her chronic interference, and her clear defining characteristic of desperate, bloody-minded determination in the face of impossible odds, she is the very emblem of his grand schemes burning down around him. A Fire Emblem, if you will.

He can attempt to play on her emotional nature to unbalance her, and most likely would succeed, but she won't be manipulated, can't be controlled, and will never ever stop fighting. She's useless insofar as the Grima Ressurection Program. Worse than useless. She poses a very realistic threat in both the physical and the symbolic sense of the subject, and will destroy everything he worked for if he doesn't destroy her first.

Outrage and panic are apparent. His smug facade can no longer hold in the face of this walking nightmare of a woman.


A Fire Emblem, very clever wordplay. Very insightful analysis, and thanks for the food for thought. So, do you want to take a whack at writing out the dialogue, or do think Timid_Taguel has the likely wording covered? Please let me know either way, and thanks again.


I'd rather leave it to TT. My strengths lie more in analyses and worldbuilding than conversation. Which is a problem, since I've been working on an original fiction with a basis in linguistics and logical metaphysics. Things like "Human" and "Elf" have rather different meaning than the norm, and characters largely exist as a vehicle to explore the underlying definitions and reinterpretations of expected tropes. But talking is like, hard. =|

I know that feeling. I am pretty good with dialogue, though. I like to write, and have a strong grasp of this game's diction and the way in which each individual character speaks.
"What should I put here? Guess I'll just have to ask the voices in my head..."

User Info: falchion1984

falchion1984
5 months ago#10
Ikorus13 posted...
falchion1984 posted...


That DOES sound like an interesting project. I hope it goes well, and please let me know if you’d like me to take a look.


Ah, I'm afraid I need to keep the details primarily confidential, so that if it ever gets to a submissible state its existence is provably, entirely "mine".

But because I'm an insufferable showoff and can't help myself, I'll at least give you this much:

"Human" as a species descriptor is actually used as an ASCRIPTIVE term, a label placed on them by other species, by virtue of lineage from the ancient kingdom of Hoom, where "Hoom's Men" was eventually corrupted to "Hoommen" and then "Human" over centuries.


That is unfortunate. Still, I hope it goes well for you. If you're so inclined, please let me know when the finished product is available for public consumption.
"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his." --George S. Patton
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