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Tournament: Are characters more viable than tiers suggest?

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  3. Tournament: Are characters more viable than tiers suggest?

User Info: Pierz

Pierz
1 year ago#1
Became interested in the tournament scene, and particularly reading up about character's strength and weaknesses on SmashWiki.

What I didn't quite expect is how varied the roster preferences still seems to be in tournament videos. I see low-tier characters fight something like Shiek, and sometimes still win. That's crazy! Of course, tiers probably start to matter more in the finals, but even then, some of those final matches hadn't shown characters right at the top of the list.

That's kind of cool and interesting, because I'm use to MVC2/3, SFIV and Melee having the same sort of characters constantly dominate finals in the most tournaments.
Is the roster more balanced than suggested, or is it just players eager to represent the characters they love most?

User Info: Captainjiggz

Captainjiggz
1 year ago#2
Yes. But I'll explain.
Tier lists are only really gonna focus on tourney results. Meaning, if someone isn't playing a character at a tourney, they don't truly have tourney data to go off. For example, Nairo's Zelda
You'll NEVER beat a Jigglypuff, A Captain at that.
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User Info: Lord_Chivalry

Lord_Chivalry
1 year ago#3
No, The Tier List is the be all end all for a character's viability.
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User Info: Pierz

Pierz
1 year ago#4
Oh, I see. So they're records of results more than a grading on character's strengths/weaknesses?
Nairo must be pretty good with Zelda, right? Isn't she apparently at the bottom of the list?

User Info: Captainjiggz

Captainjiggz
1 year ago#5
Pierz posted...
Oh, I see. So they're records of results more than a grading on character's strengths/weaknesses?
Nairo must be pretty good with Zelda, right? Isn't she apparently at the bottom of the list?


Kinda.
Tier lists still take match-up data and what not into consideration as to grading a character. But Tournament Results play a part as well.
You'll NEVER beat a Jigglypuff, A Captain at that.
Me during Paper Mario Color Splash's Trailer. http://i.imgur.com/A9X27oo.jpg

User Info: SoulStealer2684

SoulStealer2684
1 year ago#6
You can win any tournament with Zelda if you're just that good at the game, just expect having to put more effort to it than someone who plays Bayo/Cloud/Any top/high tier.
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User Info: AveragePichu

AveragePichu
1 year ago#7
Pierz posted...
Oh, I see. So they're records of results more than a grading on character's strengths/weaknesses?
Nairo must be pretty good with Zelda, right? Isn't she apparently at the bottom of the list?

Lord_Chivalry is lying because they think it's funny, or they're potentially delusional. Given that we're on the SmashFAQs board, both options are equally likely, and you'll have a very hard time finding good information due to the lack of serious people on here. You're better off going to Smashboards if you want to seriously talk about competitive Smash.
Anyway, what I can say on the subject is that the worst matchups in this game are something like 7-3, and those are only matchups such as Rosalina vs. Ness (can absorb all of his projectiles easily, including recovery), other matchups that don't look good at all on paper, and Bayonetta's matchups against heavyweights. Ganondorf, a bottom tier, will do badly against Sheik and Bayonetta, two tops tiers, but low tiers vs. high tiers have very even matchups. It's really only the worst characters vs. the best ones and a few specific cases that have particularly hard matchups, and I've seen a Lucas beat a Rosalina despite sharing weaknesses against her with Ness, only having a tether as an alternate form of recovery to make up for slightly more than Lucas' other weaknesses Ness doesn't have.
#TeamLitten
But why would I when I could instead play Pokemon Mystery Dungeon?

User Info: bvillebro

bvillebro
1 year ago#8
you have to be a tournament level gamer to have success, from that point who you have plays a role, but less of a role than how good you are

e.g. we saw nairo switch from dark pit to ZSS and actually have noted improvements at nationals

though as a counter example, for regionals we see ryo pick up characters like roy and win with fair consistency

it all comes down to your level of play. tier lists only really factor in the game at the highest level of play. if you arent Void/ESAM/ZeRo/Mr. R/Dabuz etc than its not really that relevant
Learning something new everyday

User Info: Jazzy_Jeff

Jazzy_Jeff
1 year ago#9
Well, I'm assuming tiers are used to gauge the meta-game at large tournaments with reputable players such as Nairo, ZeRo, or anyone you can think of. But even then, they are not always applicable.

In Nairo's instance, Nairo's Zero Suit Samus, one of the best, if not arguably the best, was eliminated by Mr. II's Robin during Pound 2016, placing Nairo at 49th in Singles. Zero Suit Samus is ranked 2nd on the current tier list as opposed to Robin's placing at 31st, and theoretically, the match-up should heavily favor Zero Suit Samus.

I guess it really boils down to individual skill as on any given day, any player can lose, just as much as any character can win. Not every Pikachu plays like ESAM, not every ZSS plays like Nairo, and not every Sheik plays like ZeRo. A stroll through For Glory will make that evident.

The problem with tiers, I believe, is that we don't necessarily choose high-tier characters to gain instant results, but rather, they discourage us from using other characters and unlocking their full potential. Any character, if their potential is explored, can win a tournament. Abadango's Mewtwo showed that.
I've fallen in love with my beauteous Rosalina.
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User Info: bvillebro

bvillebro
1 year ago#10
Jazzy_Jeff posted...
Zero Suit Samus is ranked 2nd on the current tier list as opposed to Robin's placing at 31st, and theoretically, the match-up should heavily favor Zero Suit Samus.

only place i have to disagree. pound occured after 1.1.5, which nerfed ZSS pretty notably (after already being slightly nerfed in 1.1.4)

she now hovers anywhere from 4-8, depending on who you ask

Jazzy_Jeff posted...
Any character, if their potential is explored, can win a tournament. Abadango's Mewtwo showed that.

this is also a pretty funny case. while there is some truth to this statement, mewtwo had just gotten buffed pretty significantly, and this was the first big tournament where we got to see what he was capable of now
Learning something new everyday
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