Link is not an avatar. He has personality. He has character.

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  3. Link is not an avatar. He has personality. He has character.

User Info: mp443556

mp443556
2 years ago#191
Jakerific44 posted...
mp443556 posted...
A careful reading of the definition you posted would suggest that it refers to 'an' icon not specifically one "of the player". It needs merely represent a particular person (the player) in the game which Link does.
We could, of course, add whatever specifications we want to the definition of avatar as its not set in stone, but until we do that it would still include Link (and Mario too).


"an icon or figure representing a particular person in computer games, Internet forums, etc."

I argued that Link represents his character and the player only plays as him because it is a video game. Link does not represent the player, the player is only playing as his character.
I think that it fits the definition.
The 'particular person' refers to player, I would assume.

It doesn't matter if the player is only playing as him because its a video game. It still remains the case that Link is the figure representing a particular person, in this case the player, in the video game. We would need a stronger definition of avatar to exclude Link
"They have shown themselves to be that which they hate, that which they want to chase away out of the village." -- Jesse Ball

User Info: DiogenesKC

DiogenesKC
2 years ago#192
Jakerific44 posted...
No, this definition shows that an avatar is an icon of the player. Link is not.
That's like saying Mario is an avatar because you can play as Mario.
to an extent he is

you really ought to drop the idea of there being a strict binary here; every character in every game is both the product of the player's choices (due to interactivity) and of the designers' (due to the game's constraints)
Welcome to the world of idiots.

User Info: Jakerific44

Jakerific44
2 years ago#193
hop918 posted...
Jakerific44 posted...
but it doesn't make him not a character.


I never said that, I said the only similarities you can put between his selves are generic hero qualities. If you can name me one personality trait that is similar between Links that isn't involved in the generic hero we've got some headway. But based on what you listed earlier Link doesn't have that.


(I don't see it personally since he's not a brash, obnoxious, and loud-mouthed teen but whatever


I was only using what you listed earlier as my basis, and based off of that I can think of at least a dozen different characters that share those same traits. I wasn't saying he's fully similar to Shonen characters, my bad if it came off that way.


Link is a generic character. Just because he is simple and common doesn't make his traits have any less significance between all of the Links.
Who is Link? I believe that he has the Spirit of the Hero, correct? The Spirit of the Hero would make sense to have "generic hero qualities".

Okay, so there are characters similar to Link. But they are not in the Zelda canon and therefore cannot be connected to Link as a character like all of the Links in Zelda are.
http://myanimelist.net/profile/HikariJake

User Info: Jakerific44

Jakerific44
2 years ago#194
mp443556 posted...
Jakerific44 posted...
mp443556 posted...
A careful reading of the definition you posted would suggest that it refers to 'an' icon not specifically one "of the player". It needs merely represent a particular person (the player) in the game which Link does.
We could, of course, add whatever specifications we want to the definition of avatar as its not set in stone, but until we do that it would still include Link (and Mario too).


"an icon or figure representing a particular person in computer games, Internet forums, etc."

I argued that Link represents his character and the player only plays as him because it is a video game. Link does not represent the player, the player is only playing as his character.
I think that it fits the definition.
The 'particular person' refers to player, I would assume.

It doesn't matter if the player is only playing as him because its a video game. It still remains the case that Link is the figure representing a particular person, in this case the player, in the video game. We would need a stronger definition of avatar to exclude Link


Okay, I'll come up with one and lets see if we can agree.
Video game avatar: An in-game actor that the player has complete control over, including the ability to customize their personality, backstory, relationships, appearance, and/or the choices they make in the video game, essentially creating their own unique character.
http://myanimelist.net/profile/HikariJake

User Info: Jakerific44

Jakerific44
2 years ago#195
DiogenesKC posted...
Jakerific44 posted...
No, this definition shows that an avatar is an icon of the player. Link is not.
That's like saying Mario is an avatar because you can play as Mario.
to an extent he is

you really ought to drop the idea of there being a strict binary here; every character in every game is both the product of the player's choices (due to interactivity) and of the designers' (due to the game's constraints)


That's because that's what makes a video game a game. If you take out the game part, then the story is what's left.
Can this character still have a role in the story and interact with the characters without the player needing to come up with their own personality traits for said character? Congrats, they are a character.
An avatar could not do this as the player would have to create everything about that character from scratch.
http://myanimelist.net/profile/HikariJake

User Info: mp443556

mp443556
2 years ago#196
Jakerific44 posted...
Okay, I'll come up with one and lets see if we can agree.
Video game avatar: An in-game actor that the player has complete control over, including the ability to customize their personality, backstory, relationships, appearance, and the choices they make in the video game, essentially creating their own unique character.

That's too strong a definition now. It excludes everyone. Miis wouldn't even be avatars by it.
"They have shown themselves to be that which they hate, that which they want to chase away out of the village." -- Jesse Ball

User Info: hop918

hop918
2 years ago#197
Jakerific44 posted...
Link is a generic character. Just because he is simple and common doesn't make his traits have any less significance between all of the Links.
Who is Link? I believe that he has the Spirit of the Hero, correct? The Spirit of the Hero would make sense to have "generic hero qualities".


But there's the problem, if he's just a generic character there's nothing stopping him from being anybody based on what you're describing. In order to be something in which you are attempting to argue doesn't he need to have more than just generic traits?


Okay, so there are characters similar to Link. But they are not in the Zelda canon and therefore cannot be connected to Link as a character like all of the Links in Zelda are.


Sorry if I got this mixed up but I guess I was describing it from the viewpoint that you were arguing that Link as a whole has an individual personality that makes him unique as one of Nintendo's icons. That was my fault because the point I was making was trying to show that he has nothing that distinguishes him consistently in all his instances that would make him stand out as something more than generic. That was my mistake.

User Info: Jakerific44

Jakerific44
2 years ago#198
mp443556 posted...
Jakerific44 posted...
Okay, I'll come up with one and lets see if we can agree.
Video game avatar: An in-game actor that the player has complete control over, including the ability to customize their personality, backstory, relationships, appearance, and/or the choices they make in the video game, essentially creating their own unique character.

That's too strong a definition now. It excludes everyone. Miis wouldn't even be avatars by it.


How would you fix it? I'll be willing to give your edit a look if you want.

EDIT: I added an "or" to the definition.
Anyways, I'm heading to bed so I probably won't respond for a while.
http://myanimelist.net/profile/HikariJake

User Info: mp443556

mp443556
2 years ago#199
Honestly, I have no idea.
Perhaps a minor change to first sentence making it: An in-game actor which the player controls singularly for any amount of time.

And then we need some quantifiable way to basically say that the character refers back to the specific player who created it while not necessarily referring back to just anyone who picks up the controller. With the added stipulation that names are not enough for this? Or maybe something along the lines of saying that the character contains a story which only the specific player knows of.
But even then it still wouldn't cover everything and includes some cases which it probably shouldn't.

An easier way to state it might be to say that: the character is unique to the player, and then add various conditions to make this criterion much less strict.
"They have shown themselves to be that which they hate, that which they want to chase away out of the village." -- Jesse Ball

User Info: -Erika-

-Erika-
2 years ago#200
Jakerific44 posted...
What else can I say? lol I'm a typical self-proclaimed otaku


Thank you for making it clear up front that I shouldn't bother listening to anything you have to say.
Joshi Spirit
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